"tom" Bridge

[MusicMan]

So this is going to be my first build. I'm doing this in my woodshop class (I'm a senior in high school) and I'll be using a poplar/oak/poplar-layering as a practice "guitar" to the real deal (swamp ash with a flame maple top). The main things I'm worried about are routing the cavities (I'm going with a rear cavity to avoid using a pickguard) and what to do if I want a string-through design (which is the Tune-O-Matic bridge, I believe). How should I go about doing this? I don't even know if I want 2 humbuckers or an H-S-H design, lol. The Dean ML will most likely be my body design, though, as soon as I measure an ML's body...

I've been recommended Melvyn Hiscock's book so many times it's not even funny, but I don't have the money on me Any help/opinions would be appreciated.

[killemall8]

what exactly dont you understand about string through? there are strat style bridges that are string thru too. You just drill your holes, then drill a recess on teh back for the ferrules the string ball ends sit in.

[Tim37]

your gonna spend how much building this guitar and you wont spend 25 bucks on one fo the most helpful tools avalible?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Make-Your-Own-Electric...=item255e18e206

[supplebanana]

send me an email to "supplebanana at hotmail.co.uk" & i'll mail you some ML plans in pdf format. they use a Floyd Rose but you can still use the saddle postion to line up your T-O-M bridge.

sb

[ihocky2]

Sorry, but I have to ask. If you are having trouble with the concept of a string thru, how much about the rest of the concepts in an electric guitar are you comfortable with? Do you understand scale length? Do you understand neck angle and why/when you need it, or how to determine it? Neck width and taper?

Guitars are more science and math than they are art. It is not quite as simple as picking a cool shape and creating a bad axe. There is a lot of math to it and a lot of theory. A decent TOM bridge will cost more than the book, spend the money and buy Melvyn's book. Even better and cheaper yet, go to the local library and see if they have it. If you live in a city that has several libraries in your area, check the others out as well. Answers can be found in places other than the internet.

[MusicMan]

Sorry, but I have to ask. If you are having trouble with the concept of a string thru, how much about the rest of the concepts in an electric guitar are you comfortable with? Do you understand scale length? Do you understand neck angle and why/when you need it, or how to determine it? Neck width and taper?

Guitars are more science and math than they are art. It is not quite as simple as picking a cool shape and creating a bad axe. There is a lot of math to it and a lot of theory. A decent TOM bridge will cost more than the book, spend the money and buy Melvyn's book. Even better and cheaper yet, go to the local library and see if they have it. If you live in a city that has several libraries in your area, check the others out as well. Answers can be found in places other than the internet.

I'm quite comfortable with many things regarding the electric guitar. I just wasn't sure how simple routing and drilling one would be (guess it's not hard at all, then). Besides, I know my math. Measure thrice, cut once.

what exactly dont you understand about string through? there are strat style bridges that are string thru too. You just drill your holes, then drill a recess on teh back for the ferrules the string ball ends sit in.

Without the book, I didn't know how easy a string-through design really was. Guess it's doable then And yes, a $20 book for me is rather expensive right now...

Of course, there are the angles of the drills and all that extremely specific stuff I'll have to dig for.

Money's an issue, but I'm getting most of the parts for free (including me taking apart some old guitars from friends and the body wood). I'm trying to get the book, but it's not happening right now...

[supplebanana]

i guess you don't need the plans either....

[sam_c]

is there no way you can get Melvyns book from a library?? I think if you read it once you may understand why so many ppl are recommending it and you might re-evaluate it's importance as a tool and reference guide. Judging by your spec / plans for the build, you are bound to come across some more problems which could easily be answered on the spot by that book. Neck angle, maple top....not to mention a neck!!

[supplebanana]

he says that money's tight but even if he's getting everything given it's still false economy not to buy the book - I've bought both editions!!

If he ruins the stuff he'll just have to buy more....

I built my 1st guitar without it & wished I'd had it - that guitar is still in the process of putting all the "wrongs" right.

i've even offered him FREE ML plans but he doesn't seem to want them either.

[MusicMan]

he says that money's tight but even if he's getting everything given it's still false economy not to buy the book - I've bought both editions!!

If he ruins the stuff he'll just have to buy more....

I built my 1st guitar without it & wished I'd had it - that guitar is still in the process of putting all the "wrongs" right.

i've even offered him FREE ML plans but he doesn't seem to want them either.

Trust me, I've been told so many damn times to get the book it's not even funny. I'm trying as best I can with the book. Oh, and it seems that no local library has the thing, either.......

is there no way you can get Melvyns book from a library?? I think if you read it once you may understand why so many ppl are recommending it and you might re-evaluate it's importance as a tool and reference guide. Judging by your spec / plans for the build, you are bound to come across some more problems which could easily be answered on the spot by that book. Neck angle, maple top....not to mention a neck!!

I'm getting a free neck from a friend that damn near fits all of my specifications. Like I said, it's the book that seems to be the trouble so far. Which seems ironic, right? Here I am building a damn guitar and I can't get a book...

i guess you don't need the plans either....

I e-mailed you already, though...? supplebanana@hotmail.co.uk is the address I sent my e-mail to. Try this instead, I guess. "haltrman93@yahoo.com" Perhaps you'll have better luck. Believe me when I say that you might be the biggest help of all when it comes to me building this thing. Expect many "thank you" e-mails.

Edited October 17, 2010 by MexicanBreed
Dude, no need for the F word!

[MusicMan]

What's the time difference between Illinois and the UK, anyway? You're probably sleeping when I'm on here, lol.

[supplebanana]

email sent - my spam filter had grabbed them....

i've added the Razorback plans too - so you can take your pick

and there's 5 hours difference between the UK & the east coast US - so it depends where you are in the US time zones.

[MusicMan]

email sent - my spam filter had grabbed them....

i've added the Razorback plans too - so you can take your pick

and there's 5 hours difference between the UK & the east coast US - so it depends where you are in the US time zones.

You, sir, are amazing. I have two basic "thank you" packages. There's the "Once will suffice" package and then there's the "I'm saying thank you until you get pissed at me" package. Which would you prefer?

[supplebanana]

email sent - my spam filter had grabbed them....

i've added the Razorback plans too - so you can take your pick

and there's 5 hours difference between the UK & the east coast US - so it depends where you are in the US time zones.

You, sir, are amazing. I have two basic "thank you" packages. There's the "Once will suffice" package and then there's the "I'm saying thank you until you get pissed at me" package. Which would you prefer?

i'm english & suitably restrained... so the "once will suffice" will do.... lol (stiff upper lip & all that shite!!)

lets just say that if you're in the Orlando, Florida area this time next week - my plane lands in a coupla hours you can buy me a drink then...lol

just stay on the right side of the folks here, post pics of your progress & you'll find that we can be the most amenable, friendly, & helpful folks you'll come across - just remember any advice given is free to you, but may have cost others learning it. please learn from it..... we're to help....mostly!

Rob

[MusicMan]

i'm english & suitably restrained... so the "once will suffice" will do.... lol (stiff upper lip & all that shite!!)

lets just say that if you're in the Orlando, Florida area this time next week - my plane lands in a coupla hours you can buy me a drink then...lol

just stay on the right side of the folks here, post pics of your progress & you'll find that we can be the most amenable, friendly, & helpful folks you'll come across - just remember any advice given is free to you, but may have cost others learning it. please learn from it..... we're to help....mostly!

Rob

I'll have to hold off on the drink then, haha. And I definitely think of what it cost people when they give me advice. They might have gotten it for free themselves or it might have actually cost them something. Either way, I take all of your advice with an open (and gracious) heart.

So far, the most helpful and friendly people have been on the Dean Guitars forum and this website. Ultimate Guitar has some snooty people over there, granted some of the information they have is quite useful.

As for the plans you sent me, I'm getting my nearest professional film/photography store to make me a life-size printout so all I have to do is trace the shape on the rough cut wood

Edited October 18, 2010 by MusicMan

[supplebanana]

lol... that depends on the size of your monitor!

the best way is to find somewhere that can print them fullsize. I have access to a 36"x24" printer at work & managed to get them printed in 2 go's (half & then reversed & then the other half)

the ML plans are 36"x48" printed and are as accurate you will get. they'll probably cost you a few dollars to get printed. then trace the outline on to some mdf & use this a a template or stick it to your body blank & go from there - your choice.

when I said about advice costing others, i meant learning from their mistakes - for example Tom (johnny foreigner) thought he had a perfectly stable neck black 'til he stressed it &.. bang.... kaputt! but he learnt from it.

i'm not the most experienced or most prolific builder here - but I've made mistakes & also learned from others here - believe me - any mistakes you're likely to make will have already been made ten-fold.

i have a friend who has a Dean endorsement (yes he gets them free) & he has an ML, a Razorback & a Vendetta - so I can say that the plans are as accurate as they come.

ps.... I wouldn't take the binding as a reference - too much margin for error.... use the scale length or even the floyd rose saddle pitch - much more accurate way.

[MusicMan]

lol... that depends on the size of your monitor!

the best way is to find somewhere that can print them full-size. I have access to a 36"x24" printer at work & managed to get them printed in 2 go's (half & then reversed & then the other half)

the ML plans are 36"x48" printed and are as accurate you will get. they'll probably cost you a few dollars to get printed. then trace the outline on to some mdf & use this a a template or stick it to your body blank & go from there - your choice.

when I said about advice costing others, i meant learning from their mistakes - for example Tom (johnny foreigner) thought he had a perfectly stable neck black 'til he stressed it &.. bang.... kaputt! but he learnt from it.

i'm not the most experienced or most prolific builder here - but I've made mistakes & also learned from others here - believe me - any mistakes you're likely to make will have already been made ten-fold.

i have a friend who has a Dean endorsement (yes he gets them free) & he has an ML, a Razorback & a Vendetta - so I can say that the plans are as accurate as they come.

ps.... I wouldn't take the binding as a reference - too much margin for error.... use the scale length or even the floyd rose saddle pitch - much more accurate way.

Yea, just let me get a life-size monitor But the nearest Kinko's should be able to print out a 4 foot by 3 foot copy pretty easily. Now to find out how much that will set me back... Hopefully not much. I understand what you mean about making mistakes and learning from others, though. If I seem to run into any problems, there's a damn good chance someone else on here has been in the same situation (which is why I'll ask).

A quick question. What do you mean when you say you wouldn't take the binding as a reference? The plans say a 4mm binding (like abalone or whatever on the sides, I assume), but then it also mentions a 44.45mm binding. What's the purpose for the thicker binding? Also, can I use both the Razorback and ML plans to make an ML? Example: The Razorback is shown from the side (the ML isn't) and it says that the headstock has a 12 degree angle back from the neck. Does the same apply to the ML headstock? I'm assume "yes" because they're both approximately the same size and they're both Dean's.

Oh, just as a general note, this guitar will only really cost me around $300-400 to make. I'm buying a custom neck off of this website Warmoth and that's where the majority of the money will be spent. I've been offered everything from nuts to bridges to tone knobs and electronics from various people I know. The body wood will also be free due to knowing some people who work at Home Depot that can get lumberyard wood for less

[supplebanana]

the smaller the reference the more margin for error when upscaling. using a larger reference will result in less margin for error when measuring.

as far as i'm aware the headstock angle is the same on both guitars - I haven't noticed a major difference between my friends guitars - but even if it was a degree or 2 more or less wouldn't make a noticeable differnce anyway. the one thing you do need to take into account is the NECK angle. the plans use a Floyd Rose trem but you say you're using a T-O-M then you'll either need to increase the neck angle or recess the bridge - this is where the book is invaluable - it shows you how to calculate the neck angle.

there's no need to show the ML from the side really coz it's just a "slab" body ie - no contours/chamfers etc.

I assume you're referring to section A-A on the plans... because of the above this IS the side elevation - the 44.45mm is the body thickness (approx 1.75") & it shows the position of the binding (black aquares) on the front & back of the guitar body.

you wouldn't want to use abalone binding on this guitar if you're on a budget or you haven't bound a guitar before the abalone would be worth more than the rest of the guitar!! - the binding is just plain old white plastic & Stew Mac stock it here but not in 4mm thickness - the thickest is 2.29mm which is thick enough really.

[MusicMan]

the smaller the reference the more margin for error when upscaling. using a larger reference will result in less margin for error when measuring.

Understandable. Kinko's knows more about it than me, so I'll be set.

as far as i'm aware the headstock angle is the same on both guitars - I haven't noticed a major difference between my friends guitars - but even if it was a degree or 2 more or less wouldn't make a noticeable differnce anyway. the one thing you do need to take into account is the NECK angle. the plans use a Floyd Rose trem but you say you're using a T-O-M then you'll either need to increase the neck angle or recess the bridge - this is where the book is invaluable - it shows you how to calculate the neck angle.

Excellent. With a 4 day weekend after Wednesday, I'll be gathering most of the supplies and knowledge then (Hiscock's book, a woodworking book from my dad, the actual mahogany I'll be using, and some tools for more specific jobs).

There's no need to show the ML from the side really coz it's just a "slab" body ie - no contours/chamfers etc.

My dream guitar is the Dean ML AT3000 (archtop), so I was thinking about giving it some contours.

I assume you're referring to section A-A on the plans... because of the above this IS the side elevation - the 44.45mm is the body thickness (approx 1.75") & it shows the position of the binding (black aquares) on the front & back of the guitar body.

Ohhhh, that's the side view

you wouldn't want to use abalone binding on this guitar if you're on a budget or you haven't bound a guitar before the abalone would be worth more than the rest of the guitar!! - the binding is just plain old white plastic & Stew Mac stock it here but not in 4mm thickness - the thickest is 2.29mm which is thick enough really.

Yea, I didn't mean I'd use abalone binding, but that's what came into my head first as an example.