No Build Threads For Gotm?

[Drak]

FWIW: I have 4 active builds going on right now, and 3 more back-burners working.

Believe me - I have PLENTY on my plate right now for builds.

3 of the 4 active ones are in various parts of the finishing stage, and I'm hesitant to kick up too much dust.

Seriously, who really cares?

I think you take this stuff far too seriously, all the resentments you have built up against members here for various and nefarious reasons, the paranoia you have expressed over and over again, the inability to accept reality for exactly what it is, your anger at repeatedly not being accepted at a level you think you deserve, what does it really buy you in the end John?

Nothing at all but your own resentments and frustrations which outwardly exhibits itself as paranoia from what I've seen.

Maybe you should take a vacation or something, I think you have completely lost track of the fact that this is supposed to be F.U.N., I see a lot of obsessive/compulsiveness/control issues in your postings.

Man, ease off the gas pedal and just enjoy the friggin' ride already.

[avengers63]

Just don't wait for the last day to enter it!

I've been considering stripping the mirrored Iceman for parts. The main place I get to play is at church. They don't want me playing the mirrored one anymore because of random blindings in the congregation from the lights. The thing is that it;s the best sounding ax I have! Well, that and the headless V, but they're two different piles of awesome, so it's really hard to compare. Anyway, I've been thinking about doing it with basically the same woods, but thinner and w/o the mirror. I don't want to risk losing the sound with other woods. Probably spray the whole thing a modest color like Corvette yellow.

Maybe you should take a vacation or something, I think you have completely lost track of the fact that this is supposed to be F.U.N., I see a lot of obsessive/compulsiveness/control issues in your postings.

Maybe you should mind your own business and stop trying to psychoanalyze me through some posts on an internet forum. You don't know me, I'm VERY self aware and introspective, you're way off target, and bugger off from me forever.

Edited October 27, 2010 by avengers63

[WezV]

could you not remove the mirro and binding, and redo just that part with a different material.

or just get them to preach about the conversion of saul every time you play

[sunday_luthier]

I guess it is as much a vote for this particular guitar as it is a vote for Scott French's other work.

Please be fair.

This is what I, the "single-post nobody", wrote :

There were 3 guitars I could easily have voted for this month : Osario's Explorer, Strandberg's Ergonomic guitar and Scott French's SF2. Those are the ones I would really like to own.

Since I had to pick just one, I went with the SF2. I guess it is as much a vote for this particular guitar as it is a vote for Scott French's other work.

I now feel compelled to justify my vote a bit further :

Osario's Explorer is an existing design. Of the 3 guitars mentioned, it's the one that has the workmanship and materials I like best. I think it's a bit of a shame to have also copied the headstock which, even on a copy, reflects the builder's personality.

Strandberg's guitar is probably the one with the design I like best of the 3. The "surprise" effect is gone and this design has already won GOTM so I didn't want to vote for it. I'm also turned off by the blue hardware.

Scott French's guitar is all the way tasteful, the design is both familiar and new. It may not have the "wow" of Strandberg's design or Osario's worsmanship, but I wouldn't change a thing on it. So I voted for it. I am also a fan of SF's other work, and my vote was a nod to that as well.

I hope this clarifies things.

I'm flabbergasted that an innocent comment I made on the GOTM topic would fuel yet another of your tantrums regarding GOTM.

If GOTM gets on your nerves so much, I respectfully suggest, for your own well-being, that you stop participating.

If it's any consolation, you can be sure that you won't receive any "sympathy" vote from me. I just vote for what I like. Period

Cheers!

[Osorio]

My intention was build a guitar that the costumer wants. If he want´s that way what could I do? The best work as possible don´t you agree?

I made my excuses to everybody, even my guitar wins I ask the moderation that don´t put it on the site. Think that was a bad idea post one guitar in the contest.

So the damage is done and the kill begins ( poetic ha? :D )

[avengers63]

Please be fair.

I honestly thought I was. The remainder of the comment is irrelevant to the point I was making: that French's history and reputation was what pulled his vote.

Listen, if anyone doesn't like my guitar for whatever reason, that's fine. I wasn't going to get your vote anyway, so it's no big deal really. I was using your own words to make the point, not to convict you in any way.

As for the accusation of a tantrum, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm not mad, I'm not throwing a fit, I'm not crying that I thought anyone should have voted for me. Go back through and re-read my posts. My statement was, and is, that 1) I believe the voting should be on the guitar itself and no other factors, and 2) that's not the way some people cast their vote. I then gave my evidence to support my claims. I mentioned no names and accused no one.

If you took my using your statement as evidence to be inflamatory or took it personally, I sincerely apologize.

[avengers63]

My intention was build a guitar that the costumer wants. If he want´s that way what could I do? The best work as possible don´t you agree?

I made my excuses to everybody, even my guitar wins I ask the moderation that don´t put it on the site. Think that was a bad idea post one guitar in the contest.

So the damage is done and the kill begins ( poetic ha? :D )

Hey, if you win, then you win. I don't hold it against you.

That being said, I DO join the others in encouraging you to post a progress thread or two. We all like reading them and watching how others do their thing. I'm sure we could all learn something from you, just as you'll be able to learn from us. Even if it's a different perspective, that can sometimes be helpful.

Welcome to the board, and keep us updated!

[westhemann]

pfft

[WezV]

My intention was build a guitar that the costumer wants. If he want´s that way what could I do? The best work as possible don´t you agree?

I made my excuses to everybody, even my guitar wins I ask the moderation that don´t put it on the site. Think that was a bad idea post one guitar in the contest.

So the damage is done and the kill begins ( poetic ha? :D )

dont you dare man! there war never a rule you broke - just some sour faces you put out of joint by turning up with such nice guitars

anyway - in my drunken state after telling my pa its ok to be divorced from my ma (as she approaches her first anniversary of her pagan wedding cerimony before actually being divorced from my pa) i feel i can be open with you guys too!

john - stop telling people why they vote certain ways - just let the vote go the way it does and maybe contribute to the discussion by making your voting criteria clear... if you lose it is simply because your guitar was not good enough to win - no underground conspiracy.

build better guitars and you will win. take note of your previous criticisms and you will win. we are all willing it to happen. put a guitar out that is both interesting to most people and doesnt have visable flaws and maybe you will finally win it. Keep putting in guitars with things we know you could have done better and you never will

This is my issue, everything i feel the need to criticize your gotm entries is at this point something you have done better on another guitar - which tells me you have the skill to do it right on one single guitar.... so bloody do it because we all want you too. mistakes happen but you need to start making guitars that appear perfect if you want to win - there are certainly enough newbs doing that. if you cant see the flaws then ask someone who can before entering and blaming a bag of bollox for losing

[avengers63]

john - stop telling people why they vote certain ways - just let the vote go the way it does and maybe contribute to the discussion by making your voting criteria clear... if you lose it is simply because your guitar was not good enough to win - no underground conspiracy.

if you cant see the flaws then ask someone who can before entering and blaming a bag of bollox for losing

Dude... you're completely missing what I've been saying today. This is the third time you've mis-read me in this thread and accused me of saying something other than what I've been saying from the get-go.

Have I told anyone how to vote? No. I've commented on how SOME do and offered proof that it happens. I've said what I think the criteria should be, but acknowledged that this isn't the case and there's nothing to be done about it.

In this thread, have I made one single complaint about losing? Seriously - go back and look. I haven't. I said that I'm frustrated, but that's a far cry from saying that I should have won. Seriously guys - I don't EXPECT to win anymore. I'd really like to, but I have no belief that it will happen. Between having set some folks off by verbalizing my thoughts (like this thread here ) and the reality that my designs and aesthetics are just not vanilla enough to appeal to everyone, I've given up on winning. Even with that understanding, I've stated clearly why I still enter. But all of that being out there, I'm STILL not complaining about not winning.

I've not blamed anyone or anything today for a loss. In fact, this post right now is the most I've talked about losing all day. YOU have talked about me losing more than I have.

I've made no mention today about some of the things I've mentioned before. That's because I'm done talking about it. You bring it up a lot, so you don't seem to be done with it, but there's nothing I can do about that.

So let me re-state it yet again. I don't agree with the criteria some people use for the voting. No numbers, no names, no accusations, no conspiracy, no "I deserved to win"..... I don't agree with some people's criteria. Aside from defining said criteria and offering proof, that's as far as I've gone today. So all of y'all need to pull out of me and stop arguing with me about what I did not say.

As for asking for a different set of eyes to point out areas of potential improvement.... there's an appropriate time and place for that. It's while the thing is being made, and in the build thread. If you think I can make an improvement on an instrument, say it while the comment can still make a difference. If you want me to make what you call the next step and put it all together in one place like you SAY you do...

which tells me you have the skill to do it right on one single guitar.... so bloody do it because we all want you too

...then say it while it still matters. We may have developed out differences, but I still respect your ability and value your input. There's a saying - you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. If I'm dorking something up and can't see that I'm doing it, but you fail to LMK, then which part are you? The threads are out there as an open invitation to be commented on. That IS asking for a different set of eyes. So either put up or shut up.

on a different note...

could you not remove the mirro and binding, and redo just that part with a different material.

The mirror is epoxied on, the binding would get trashed, and it's wider than my planer so I could never get it level again. Then there's the fact that the neck won't ever fit on another body because it's a back-bolt AND contoured to match this body. It'd honestly be easier to make a whole new guitar and save that one for when/if I ever get a band together again.

Edited October 28, 2010 by avengers63

[Bionic Dave]

Wow someone other then me thats stirring the pot. 2 thumbs up John.

How about looking at how a guitar is built, as a way of voting too. Is it built with care and carved by hand, or did the builder just but it on a CNC and push a button.

Because anyone can do that. AutoCad Mach 3 and a 4 axis CNC and you can do just about anything. Like make an intricate puzzle piece top on your guitar like this the Gotm winner Jaden.

Not taking away from the guitar, it was a very nice guitar. Thats why I entered mine into the contest against it. I want to beat the best. But thats not possible now is it. I don't get votes because I'm an a$$ for stating the truth about the voting in Gotm. I came in 4th out of 5 entries, and I'll state it there was only 1 other guitar in the contest against mine last month and it won. I got hosed and the PM's I got about it state it. I was like Avenger before last month I wanted my peers recognition but I now don't care as I realize that the peers on this forum are for the most part blind and jaded.

I will say it again Popularity contest. I don't know Scott French or his past work. His entry this month is nice but doesn't deserve the 20 votes he currently has. Thats my judgement of course, So as pointed out it most be from past work.

Thats why I will never enter again.

the UK guys all vote for UK builders thats how it goes.

Giver John.

[avengers63]

Now THAT, my friends and fellow luthiers, is what complaining that you didn't win looks like.

I, however, have been complaining about the criteria of a minority of the voters.

[MiKro]

Wow another great thread. Really a good read so far, brings out the best in human emotions. Let's see competition, envy, denial and self worth. Wow this is some cool stuff.

[sunday_luthier]

Wow another great thread. Really a good read so far, brings out the best in human emotions. Let's see competition, envy, denial and self worth...

... and turn it into a TV show!

[WezV]

Dude... you're completely missing what I've been saying today. This is the third time you've mis-read me in this thread and accused me of saying something other than what I've been saying from the get-go.

your right - a few pints of Burton's finest does that to me sometimes... but dont forget that i have always offered suggestions on your builds before GOTM, as have many others. you get some of the busiest builds threads around here!

the UK guys all vote for UK builders thats how it goes.

i would like to see you try and substantiate that rather odd claim - or why not get your wife or mum to do it!

[sam_c]

the UK guys all vote for UK builders thats how it goes.

wrong. Personally, I vote for the guitar Id like to own.

[westhemann]

I, however, have been complaining about the criteria of a minority of the voters.

Well,that is your right.Your opinions are as valid as anyone's,but why should GOTM be different than any other voting process?

In every vote on earth you have people voting for personality and looks over platform and function,or just plain voting how they feel...but that is the way it all works,is it not?In the end,majority rules.The only way to do it differently is to do it like the big boys in government and vote on a panel of judges who would vote their conscience,but in all honesty I think it's better letting the average guy vote.

That IS what the purpose of voting is,is it not?The real issue is how many people have fake profiles with zero or almost zero posts who always seem to appear around voting time...I notice a few people always get the same # of votes on day 1 of voting,then nothing much after that...so really...that is more of an issue I think.

I can check IP and compare,but that really tells only part of the story..and if your wife,mom,kids,and cats all vote for you on day 1 of open voting,then what right do you have to complain?Because even if all of those people and cats are legitimately voting,they are still voting based on who they know.

[Bionic Dave]

I guess that's another place my wife has you beat mexi.

She's building a cigar box guitar. Taking her forever but still building something.

Maybe if you built something your boyfriend would take interest in what you do.

What do you do? Besides have a constant hard on for me.

Don't get upset wish me because I had to contact Brian to fix my posting.

It's not my fault you can't count fagget.

Oh know I guess I'll get band now.

Whoopdee doo.

[avengers63]

Dave: I've never PMed ANYONE here "crying" about a loss. Lying won't help you any. Truth be told, after I saw you complaining about not winning, my ewes were opened and I saw what I was looking like to others. YOU are why I'll never complain about losing again.

Wes: You're 100% right in all of your points. People CAN vote any way they please for any reason they please. This doesn't mean that I have to agree with their reasoning.

[sam_c]

complaining about not winning

maybe that would have been a better title for this thread. Seriously, Ive re-read this a few times and it compares to a bunch of f*cking 6 yr olds sitting in a treehouse deciding on the 'rules' of the club.

If you dont like/agree with how GOTM works, dont enter and dont vote.

[chops1983]

Its been awhile, seems like the same old is happening on PG!

I find arguing on an internet forum completely pathetic, but it has been a laugh reading over this.

Osorio, i haven't voted this month and i don't particularly like Les Pauls but i checked out your thread and i think your guitar is one of the best Les Pauls i have ever seen. I might even go vote for it now.

In fact when i vote it is always for the outright best guitar. In other words, best quality and most aesthetically pleasing to ME. I rarely ever checkout the names of the builders or the build threads. I see 4 pics of each guitar and can make an assumption from them. I generally only go into the build threads if i can see some dodgy work and it is usually to check if my eyes are seeing right in the pics. I would also prefer to see originality, but it isn't a prerequisite.

Maybe one of the mods should get rid of Bionic Dave, i reckon there is no need for that type of behaviour.

[Johnny Foreigner]

John and Dave. With all due respect - and I mean that, because you're both far better builders than I am - the only reason I personally have never voted for either of your guitars is because they're not good enough.

It's really that simple.

If there are a minority of voters who vote because of who they like, where they come from, what day of the week it is, whatever. Most people don't have the spare energy to expend on such pointless bullshit, and most people vote for the guitars they like.

Do the right guitars always win? No. Should you care? Absolutely not.

And can one of the mods please just get rid of Dave permanently? There's no place here for his bigoted invective.

[Bionic Dave]

Please ban me I've been trying for 3 days now.

[avengers63]

John and Dave. With all due respect - and I mean that, because you're both far better builders than I am - the only reason I personally have never voted for either of your guitars is because they're not good enough.

It's really that simple.

If there are a minority of voters who vote because of who they like, where they come from, what day of the week it is, whatever. Most people don't have the spare energy to expend on such pointless bullshit, and most people vote for the guitars they like.

I agree with you 100%. If you don't like my ax, then don't vote for it. I even encourage you to tell me what it is you didn't like. It's nothing personal - it's an opinion. Honest to God, I'm as cool with that as you can be.

[ProjectGuitar.com]

Guitar of the month started as a showcase of any guitar you may have that you modified or built or had built.The guitar was selected by Brian himself from anything he might have seen on the internet ,including sometimes this forum.

At one time it was attempted to split them up into several categories,and it did not work.People can still enter modified guitars or pretty much any guitar they wish that they created.

The rules every month in the GOTM thread states that it is open to all members and that you are to enter your "creation".A modified guitar is still a creation,but it does not matter as it all gets sorted out in the vote.Personally I feel all of the complaining about members entering with only one post is a bit of poor sportsmanship,and I doubt it would ever be an issue if the guitars entered were not so nice.

Since this forum has members all over the world and some of them (like Osorio) may be self-conscious about their use of English,I think it is perfectly fine.

Just my opinion.

Well I couldn't agree more Wes.................

I get emails from members of the forum who have been here for years and haven't made a single post in any of the threads other then the GOTM entry. Just because a member might be interested in doing a diary (Build thread) on their project and feel they may score points for it, others don't have the time and some don't even have the ability.

Language is a problem as well, do any of you have any idea how many times a thread on this forum is converted into a different language using Bing translater or Babelfish? You might be supprised.................