Perfect Tommy Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 As a new person in this group, I would like to introduce myself. I am a student in So Cal majoring in Cabinetmaking and also an ameteur luthier. I am currently finishing a Flamenco guitar and as this semesters project would like to make a thin line electric like an ES 335 but based on a Les Paul shape. After doing considerable industrial espionage at Guitar Center and alot of web searching only one big question remains...Neck to body seems like a standard dovetail and the body to sides seem like standard acoustic design, but there seems to be a block between the heel block and tail block. Question is does this connect to the top and back or is it non connected which would let the plates vibrate?? I would think they connect to combat feedback, but????? Any help will make this a nicer guitar. Perfect Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 the heel is what connects to the neck pocket in the body. I think it is a glued in heel because of the fact that it is a gibson. Check out the how to build an electric guitar tutorial on www.projectguitar.com it really is an informative site. check it out i think it will answer your question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Hi Perfect Tommy and welcome to the forum I'm pretty sure that you might find two distinct ways of going about it. The first is of course what you have found but lately people have started to make the back and side's out of a single block (can be more then one piece glued together of course) and chamber it. Then attach it using a spline instead of the dovetail joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 An ES335 has a sustain block which is first shaped, the sides glued to it and then the back and sides attached and glued to the block and around the edges. A sort of hybrid between solid body and acoustic. I have drawn plans for a ES335 and some other guitars (Strat,Les Paul, P-Bass) Brian would you like to post them? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbear Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Keith, I would love a copy of your 335 plans. Is it possible that you could email them to me ? I am also happy to wait 'til Brian posts them too. thanks, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Tommy Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Plans if available would be sooo cool. Have you made one??? Did you carve the plates?? Did you use veneer?? So many questions just to get a way cool Blood Red guitar. My plan is to dupe a Gretsch single cutaway with a Florentine cut out between a Standard Les Paul size and the full size Gretsch. I have some really pretty Walnut sides and can resaw a spruce top as a stressed dome shape ala a Macaferee. Walnut neck and back and I will be heading uptown. For any classical builders who are interested I am just finishing a copy of a 1951 Barbero Flamenco made of local Monterey Cypress back sides and neck and a sweet spruce top. I followed plans to the T except for a slotted head instead of pegs. I am going to try French Polishing as the finish. As I am in a Cabinetmaking school environment I have access to all sorts of tools. I am also designing a classical guitar universal workboard, based on a solera with an adjustable neck angle to allow for 0 to 5mm nack angle. Will post plans and pics when finished. Thanks for any and all help... Perfect Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Brian: I will e-mail you my plans as soon as our new ISP brings our e-mail up after our previous ISP got hacked and then cut our account off. Perfect Tommy: I have not yet built the ES335. Just finished an acoustic and a P-bass. Still have to finish another P-bass before I can get onto my 335. My intention is not to carve the plates but use good quality ply or laminated veneer. The sides and the sustain block then give the back and top the shape. (See Martin Kochs book for a very good explanation) Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Tommy Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Keith... I'm also on another forum at Yahoo and they are currently delving into the mysteries of vacume bagging laminated sides and I can get you address/access info if need be. This sounds like it would lend itself to laminated tops and would yield way good results. Thanks for the reply to the plans post...Kepp me abreast of when ISP be willing to complete the deed. My email is bbanzai8@yahoo.com. By the way the poster of the vac bagging uses polyureathane glue for non bleed through so cost outside of the vac bag equipt is lots less than using epoxy. Perfect Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 post pics of your development etc.. im interested to see how it turns out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Welcome to the forum Tommy! Good choice in careers, btw. I wish I went that route 20 yrs ago. Your reference to "vaccuum bagging" struck a note. Would the process be the same as Vaccuum Infusion Molding? I've seen it done on parts for fibreglass yachts, hull sections etc. on a large scale. They layer the material down in a mold and then seal it all up with heavy plastic and suck the air out keeping up a negative pressure. The epoxy or whatever degasses easier and cures more thoroughly and evenly, not to mention getting even "clamping" pressure everywhere. It sounds like the perfect way for attaching a curved top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Have any of you guy's experimented with Space Bags yet? You can pick them up at Walmart really cheap and they come in the right size's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Heres the rundown on Vaccuum Infusion Molding, where ever it says "boat" just substitute the word "guitar". http://www.parkislemarine.com/pdf/infusion.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 those space bags look cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I've sent the plans to Brian for posting. They are in DXF format and are at 1:1 scale. Make sure your CAD is set up with metric units (25.4mm = 1inch) As regards glueing tops using vacuum bags: I am worried that a vacuum bag would distort the sides as you can't prop them internally while gluing. You can't get the props out the F-holes are to small and a Les Paul or Lucille doesn't even have F-holes. Once the sides are glued to the back and top the body becomes extremley rigid and light but to achieve this only vertical clamping is done with no shear on the sides. What comments? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Tommy Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 The thread I followed was mainly for acoustic guitar sides. If you are familiar with a Fox Universal Side Bender they were used in conjunction with parts from that. Unfamiliar with the above. Well.... it is set of 2 forms that are constructed of 3/4" ply. These are then spanned with 1/2" iron bars. This comprises the mold. A set of flexible steel plates with the side material are sandwiched between them. This assembly fits into a "holder" that houses 2-3 100 watt light bulbs as the heat source, which in turn heats the steel plates. A screw type press forces a foot into the waist to conform to the mold and some springs and a platten assembly force the rest of the sides into the shape of the mold. This thing revolutionized side bending as consistant sides were achieved. I have bent curly maple, flamed walnut, bubinga, and monterey cypress with no cracks. Go to www.lmii.com for pictures. To get to a point, dump the heat source, the steel plates, keep the mold, use 2 lams of veneer, one thick lam of inner material, glop some polyurethane glue or WEST epoxy and bag it and add a vacume source. Wait till the glue dries and presto instant strong sides. This should lend itself to tops as well. Thanks for submitting the plans Keith and have more fun than necessary building guitars.... Perfect Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckguitarist Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Have any of you guy's experimented with Space Bags yet? You can pick them up at Walmart really cheap and they come in the right size's I saw some of those at loblaws, they're interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Tommy Are you saying preform the sides, back and top using the vacuum bags before gluing to the sustain block? If so I miss understood you. I thought you meant using the bags to clamp the top and bottom plates to the block/side assembly when final gluing, hence my concern that the sides could distort! I was going to follow Martin Kochs method of first shaping the sustain block, gluing sides to it and then gluing the back and top down to the sides/block so that the block shapes the plates. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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