Menzerna Polishing And Buffing Products

[chile]

Hi everyboy,

I was looking for a good finishing product, somenthing that can give that "factory gloss"

Preface:

I use 2k ppg paints, start with 1500 grit (P graded) if not 2000 then switch to 3m flexible polishing papers untill 6000 grit and then polish... the polishes I find here arent that good, they almonst eliminates scratches from the 6000 but creates microscratches themself...

So I decided to take a look at those 3m finesse-it//perfect-it... thousand products and too expensive to go wrong..

Also I've found the menzerna prod, either solid and paste http://www.menzerna.com/12.html?&L=1

My questions:

Does is the solid compound used with buffing weels superior to paste ones used with foam disks?

Does someone use this product?

Is it good or there's some better option?

uhmmm and, Is my english udestandable?

thanks in advance!

[Kammo1]

Menzerna pads are "THE" only pads I will ever use as they work "PERIOD!" search my posts and I'm sure you will see what I have to say and what I recommend hope this helps.

[chile]

Menzerna pads are "THE" only pads I will ever use as they work "PERIOD!" search my posts and I'm sure you will see what I have to say and what I recommend hope this helps.

done! so you suggest the "cheap" way... I'll try my cheap polish with some good pad!

the only problem is that i can't find the 3m hand glaze, looked on shopps here and online and found only on the usa...some suggestion?

[Kammo1]

Not necessarily cheap but I have literally spent alot of money finding what works for me and these "DO" work. I am based here in the UK and the place I get my pads from are something like £5.95 each and I have the white,orange and yellow 135mm pads which I use with my variable speed hand sander which I think cost me a £20 so for under £50 I have a system that can get rid of almost any scratch and blemish within minutes. I first start with sanding the whole finish to 1500 grit but you could go all the way to 2500-3000 if you wish, then with my white pad start with some T-Cut cutting compound and work this till you have all the sanding marks eliminated. Then with the orange pad I use some Farecla G10 compound and work this in to remove all the faint swirl marks out and when this is done I use the yellow fine pad with some 3M hand glaze and work this for the shine. I then after apply another finishing with some 3M handglaze but by hand for the final deep mirror shine. This is what works for me and its only a step in the right direction for you, you can only try and see what you come up with. Menzerna compounds I have found work also but are double the price of something that works equally as well at mearly a 1/3rd of the price so why waste money

[chile]

yes, i told cheap but only to say they're not the superexpensive products.

This is what works for me and its only a step in the right direction for you

a good step indeed, thank you so much for the advices!

[Woodenspoke]

I have tried many different polishing products and methods and by far a large stationary buffing system is best. I use menzerna only. there is a world of difference between a high speed spinning buffing wheel and using pads.

Why spend the money to buy a buffing setup.

1. its sooooo much faster. I can buff a whole guitar in avery short order like 1/2hr

2. The prep for buffing is less than a pad buff. So you sand less with higher grits 1500 is more than enough.

3. the thin wheels get into areas a buffing pad cant like around the neck body area. In fact I have never missed a spot I needed to hand polish.

Bottom line is if you want a factory finsh use the same method, buffing on a wheel. There is other more technicial details between the two methods but for keeping it simple, it is just easer to do the job well and not really hard to master. I have showed students how to buff in under 10 minutes.

I made my buffer from parts I bought probably cost about $150 with 12 " wheels. Not much more than my Porter cable hand buffer costs.

[Kammo1]

Totally agree but with all sanding and buffing procedures its how well you have sanded and how you use the equipment that is the key to a perfect factory finish.Take your time to eliminate all the previous scratches before the next sanding stage as more often than not you tend to miss sctarch marks and when you have come to the polishing you will ask why does the finish look grainy and its because coarser scratches have not been removed. For doing cutaways I agree with WS do it by hand its not hard and if you work to 2500 grit in these areas and use a cotton or microfibre cloth you'll work these out in minutes and also it gives you a good experience on fine finessing which you will learn to appreciate, again hope this helps.

[3DogNate]

There is also a "Buffing Window" on all of these 2 part auto urethanes. I know that the one I use needs to be buffed within 24-48 hrs or it is sooo friggin hard to buff out even with proper buffing rig and Menzerna compounds. If I can get to it in that window then it's a piece of cake. I've never be able to shine out even 2000 grit properly with hand held buffers.... can get close but not all the way. Until I got access to a friends big buffing station my finishes were only so-so... now they look like proper factory finishes. Now Mrs. Santa is bringing me my own StewMac buffing rig... I'm wicked excited about not having to bust over to a buddies house to buff proper.

[guitar2005]

There is also a "Buffing Window" on all of these 2 part auto urethanes. I know that the one I use needs to be buffed within 24-48 hrs or it is sooo friggin hard to buff out even with proper buffing rig and Menzerna compounds. If I can get to it in that window then it's a piece of cake. I've never be able to shine out even 2000 grit properly with hand held buffers.... can get close but not all the way. Until I got access to a friends big buffing station my finishes were only so-so... now they look like proper factory finishes. Now Mrs. Santa is bringing me my own StewMac buffing rig... I'm wicked excited about not having to bust over to a buddies house to buff proper.

So how high do you go in grits?

Nitro is pretty forgiving but waterbased stuff seems like it would not be. I was thinking of going all the way to maybe 3000grit before going to the menzerna compounds (Medium, Fine, Extra Fine) but the StewMac instructions recommend 600 grit, 1200 grit max. Does that make sense? I suspect that If I go to 2000 Grit or more, I might not need the "medium" menzerna.

Edited December 15, 2010 by guitar2005

[3DogNate]

So how high do you go in grits?

Nitro is pretty forgiving but waterbased stuff seems like it would not be. I was thinking of going all the way to maybe 3000grit before going to the menzerna compounds (Medium, Fine, Extra Fine) but the StewMac instructions recommend 600 grit, 1200 grit max. Does that make sense? I suspect that If I go to 2000 Grit or more, I might not need the "medium" menzerna.

I'll usually start at 600 and run only up to 1000 for nitro. Then work through medium and fine then hand polish with Meguire's #7. For 2K finishes I'll work up to 1500 if I can get to it within 48 hrs... if longer then I'll work up to 2000... no way to skip medium on 2k (or any finish) Waterbased buffs about like nitro.

Starting with the coarser grits like starting at 600>800>1000>1500>2000 and and buffing with medium>fine (or even coarser) are what gives the finish it's flat, smooth base to build gloss on... if you start wet sanding at 1000 and start buffing to a gloss from there then you'll get shine but it's potentially wavy. The coarse grit foundation is pretty key to getting ultra flat level finishes.

[Kammo1]

Got to admit I have never had problems buffing even a Polyester rock hard finish at any time with my set-up.My test dummy guitar body is a 5 year old Line 6 guitar with a Polyester finish and I can buff out 1200 scratches out in less than 10 mins. I use a white menzerna pad with T-Cut and work this for 5 mins then wipe with a clean microfibre cloth and then use my orange pad with some T-cut for another 2-3 mins wipe clean again and then follow with the yellow menzerna pad with some Farecla G10 for literally 2 mins and then wipe again with a microfibre cloth and then followed by some 3M handglaze with either a cotton stockinette cloth or another menzerna yellow pad and the gloss is a mile deep. I have spent literally hundreds of pounds on equipment like buffs and compounds and have narrowed it down to what I use and it 100% works for me. I normally finish wetsanding to at least 2500 as for me its no biggie to go this far but what I am highlighting is that even if you stopped at 1200 grit the results I have obtained are superb with the above method. Also I have never encountered any problems buffing 2K polyurethanes in 24-48 hours or 7-10 weeks old...

[3DogNate]

Also I have never encountered any problems buffing 2K polyurethanes in 24-48 hours or 7-10 weeks old...

It's not that I have a problem or can't get it done... it's just a lot easier if I can get to it next day.

oh, and Polyester buffs like a dream... to bad I can't spray it in the basement.

[ihocky2]

I have found I get a little better finish with 2K's if I let them sit for a few days. Even when they are cured and hard it seems like the finishes still cure a little more after 48 hours.

[chile]

the end results with good pads and compound is good, but still not perfect, the guitar is the one in the GOTM for feb...

as soon as I can, i think i'll try to buid a buffing station from scratch.. i already have the motor and a friend who can do the needed metal working