Pickup Winder Buidling

[verhoevenc]

OK guys. This is gunna be a step-by-step follow of how I'm building my sewing machine motor winder. It may take a little while as I may be slow to build it. But eventually it should have what you guys wanna see.

Let's start with a parts list and where I'm getting them (subject to change/addition as needed below hahaha).

Amazon:

3/8" OD drill rod

3/8" Spyroflo miniature housed bearings

eBay:

Cub3

~7000RPM sewing machine motor

Grainger:

4" 3/8" fixed bore sheave

3/8" ID collar

1/4" ID collar x2

on/off/on DPDT switch

HomeDepot:

1/4" aluminum rod

Lutron D-600P dimmer switch

Mouser: (all parts based on classic amplification's schematic for 9v power source)

828-OPB380T11Z optek optical sensor

512-LM7809ACT regulator

271-15K-RC 15kOhm resistor

271-383-RC 383ohm resistor

563-HH-3449 9V battery clip

I found some time to start work on the housings for everything. Here is a side view of my plans, I'll explain what you're looking at below:

OK, so the two big circles in the top right are the 4" pulley from the parts list and then the larger circle is the CD that will trigger the optical sensor. In the center are the pillow-block bearings for the 3/8" drive shaft. Then of course to the left we have the motor and it's mounting bracket.

I'm using 3/4" ply for all of this unless otherwise stated.

Excluding the angled section cut out from the side pieces, they measure 4.3x6.7". The left edge is 1.5" tall. I wanted the thin to be 10" wide, so for the front/back pieces you need one piece 1.5x8.5" (8.5" long because with two pieces of 3/4" ply on either side this'll make my 10" width). The front piece is then 4.3x8.5". I used a 16x16" base for the machine and it seems like I'll have enough room. I then glued and nailed everything together.

For those wondering what the slot in the front panel is for, it's to create enough space for the spinning CD that triggers the optical sensor.

Next build a little 45degree angle housing (don't glue it down!) where the "face" is only 1/8" thick ply. You can't have it too thick or the knob for your dimmer switch won't reach through. I also cut out the space for the counter here. If you have a motor-reverse switch, this would be the place to put it too. Also, be sure to drill a hole big enough for the wires and stuff to go through to reach this housing.

For the electronics, follow this diagram/pdf from Classic Amplification's website: Wiring Schematic

I have already wired mine up with the exact parts listed in the parts list and it does work exactly as it should. Hopefully that will save some noobs searching for correct parts (and bugging the mouser people) for a long time like I did.

More to come.

Chris

[verhoevenc]

Alright, not that much new to see this weekend... but stuff definitely got done.

This is what the front section looks like with the dimmer and counter installed.

Here you can see how I had to mount the photo sensor to get it up higher enough for the CD (see later) to pass through it and run the counter. The fact they have the wires come out of the bottom of it is a pain in the butt.

I will add one more thing. I got the whole shaft/bearing assembly done and mounted as well this weekend... man was that a pain. SO, note to followers, 3/8" rod doesn't fit in 3/8" bearings. You need rod ever so slightly smaller (should have seen this coming). WHERE you go about getting that is beyond me cause I sure as heck didn't see it. SO, while I did some other stuff on the winder my friend spent a good bit of time with some sandpaper and oil sanding off a couple thou' until the rod would slide through the bearings. GAH! That was annoying!

More to come,

Chris

[Prostheta]

Reading this with interest Chris. Considering making a Ricky 4003 in a local woodworking class, so brewing my own pickups has crossed my mind.

[verhoevenc]

OK, so we are finally done here and I need to mention a couple problems I ran into! Here are the pictures of the finished winder:

The above shows the first problem I ran into. The see-through CD that I had was just too floppy and a little warped so it was spinning and hitting the photo sensor. So I had to ditch that idea and I made my own (MUCH) smaller lexan disc. Smaller means less floppy It's 2.5" diameter and is super-glued to a 3/8" collar so that I can ock it down to spin with the shaft (works like a charm; be sure you scuff up the side of the collar with 120 grit paper before gluing to help adhesion to the metal). Also, this meant that my original mounting of the sensor had to change... drastically cause one of the screws got strips and I had to cut off that side's mounting tab. As you can see I've simply super-glued (after making 100% sure it worked right) it to the right place.

The above is the next issue I ran into. I figured lining up the motor pulley and the drive pulley would make things stay put... not so much! The shaft kept moving outward, making the drive pulley farther and farther from the housing as it ran. So, I had to lock things down and in place with some spacers and the disc's collar.

Lastly, since I've never wound before and don't have a great idea of how far the traverse should be from the pickup, I made this little non-permanent attachment with several options that I can try by simply unscrewing and moving the 1/4" bolt.

I will say... all said and done... this cost a bit more than I thought it was going to (the small stuff ends up adding up) and took a good deal longer than I was hoping too. I will say this... if I saw a used sewing machine motor winder on eBay for $250 or less... in hindsight, I'd buy it and save myself the work and purchasing of parts! That said, I still would not buy a Schatten or SideWinder with the dinky motors, etc. over building one like this.

Hope this helps some folks out and if you have any questions, I'm around!

Chris

[SwedishLuthier]

Nice work Chris. That looks so much better than my first winder. You might want to move the traverse closer to the face plate. On my current winder the distance is roughly an inch. Also interesting to see the use of a dimmer to regulate the speed. Can it take the speed down to zero, or does it have a slight jump start? Most guys using a motor from a sewing machine just use the foot control that comes with the machine. However I find it much better to control the speed with a simple dial like yours. Better control

[verhoevenc]

It doesn't have a quite start cause the torque on those motors isn't huge... and driving that big 4" pulley takes it a second. So the first section (like 1-3 o'clock) on the dimmer doesn't even do anything. You can hear that it's on, but you have to go higher for it to actually start being able to spin the shaft. I'm pretty happy with it. I took it for a test drive this morning for a couple of hours trying to learn and what not. I actually kinda like where the traverse is for right now, but I will definitely try closer as well. I will say that the physical winding takes a little more than I thought it would. I broke the wire a couple times (was using some cheap-o practice wire from a spoon that was useless cause it had a number of breaks where it had gotten damaged, so there's no way I could have gotten a whole pickup's worth of length out of it anyways). I think the longest run I had was 1800 turns lol. Another big thing I'm finding is spool placement in regards to the winder! Makes a world of difference! But yeah, it will for sure take some practice to get winding well. I also need to spend some time clocking the thing and writing down where different speeds are on the knob.

Chris

[SwedishLuthier]

I remember when I started to wind, I would break the wire over and over again. The trick is to find the right tension. Do you have a special tensioner or do you just pinch the wire? I have what I refer to as a "pre-tensioner", a spring loaded felt tensioner. I go from the spool to the tensioner, to my hand (pinching the wire with my bare fingers) to the traverse and to the face plate. I keep the spool on the floor between my legs, I have a guide on the edge of the winders base plate to get the wire introduced to the tensioner. The pre-tensioner takes care of any janks or un-evenness in the spool. Its pretty crude, but its the way I have learned to wind and it works for me.

[RestorationAD]

It doesn't have a quite start cause the torque on those motors isn't huge... and driving that big 4" pulley takes it a second. So the first section (like 1-3 o'clock) on the dimmer doesn't even do anything. You can hear that it's on, but you have to go higher for it to actually start being able to spin the shaft. I'm pretty happy with it. I took it for a test drive this morning for a couple of hours trying to learn and what not. I actually kinda like where the traverse is for right now, but I will definitely try closer as well. I will say that the physical winding takes a little more than I thought it would. I broke the wire a couple times (was using some cheap-o practice wire from a spoon that was useless cause it had a number of breaks where it had gotten damaged, so there's no way I could have gotten a whole pickup's worth of length out of it anyways). I think the longest run I had was 1800 turns lol. Another big thing I'm finding is spool placement in regards to the winder! Makes a world of difference! But yeah, it will for sure take some practice to get winding well. I also need to spend some time clocking the thing and writing down where different speeds are on the knob.

Chris

If you are winding using your fingers for tension wire is going to break with a sewing machine motor until you learn the right tension to use. Freeing up the spool to easily feed the wire is another key to not breaking wire. Anything thinner than 44 is a real chore to wind.

I remember when I started to wind, I would break the wire over and over again. The trick is to find the right tension. Do you have a special tensioner or do you just pinch the wire? I have what I refer to as a "pre-tensioner", a spring loaded felt tensioner. I go from the spool to the tensioner, to my hand (pinching the wire with my bare fingers) to the traverse and to the face plate. I keep the spool on the floor between my legs, I have a guide on the edge of the winders base plate to get the wire introduced to the tensioner. The pre-tensioner takes care of any janks or un-evenness in the spool. Its pretty crude, but its the way I have learned to wind and it works for me.

+1 Peter.

I keep my spools on an angled holder that sits behind me a few feet. Stopped all the silly breaks.

As for tension well that is a feel thing. I have seen many guys use a black report clip with felt to pinch the wire.

[verhoevenc]

So here are my first two bobbins:

Didn't break a single time! So I'm happy about that aspect. I will say though, that keeping a good "coil shape" is harder than one would imagine! The first bobbin (screw side, 5218 winds) is a LITTLE fatter at the bottom, but is kinda "lumpy", then the second wind (slug side, 5015) ended up (as you can see in the pic) a great deal fatter near the bottom. But the weird part is it's not the same on the other side. The coil is sort of like a parallelogram??? Weird. But it's my first, I'm sure I'll learn (advise welcome to get better shape) and I'm feeling these bobbins will WORK just fine and be a fun initial test.

Chris

[SwedishLuthier]

Looking really good Chris

keeping a good "coil shape" is harder than one would imagine!

Amen to that. I usually stops a few times while winding to check the shape. However the different parts of the coil (upper vs lower)produce different output and different sound so learning to control the shape means you can manipulate the sound too.

The coil is sort of like a parallelogram???

Check the alignement of the faceplate. I use different click-on top plates on the faceplate adapted to different bobbins and I have on a few occasions got a tiny bit of masking tape stuck between the face plate and top plate and the result is always coils like that. The face plate must run 100% true

[Prostheta]

Do any winders specifically create asymmetrical coils to alter the tonality of the pickups with positive results? If so, how does aligning the fatter end close to the string affect the tonality and vice versa? I'm taking an interest in this as I might get the opportunity to build an instrument this year *fingers crossed* and can't find a satisfactory alternative to genuine Rickenbacker bass pickups. I doubt I'll be able to afford to spin my own, but having a set custom spun might be an option.

Not trying to hijack Chris, just en-tangentising ;-)

[SwedishLuthier]

Have a look at the different shapes offered by Throbak pickups:

http://www.gundrymedia.typepad.com/

I made a thread here some three four years ago about what part of the coil (upper vs lower) contributed with the most output. I have not experimented enough to say for sure what the sound of each part, but about 2/3 of the output on a Strat pickup comes from the upper half. Hmmm, I might have that experimental coil still laying around some where...

[RestorationAD]

So here are my first two bobbins:

Didn't break a single time! So I'm happy about that aspect. I will say though, that keeping a good "coil shape" is harder than one would imagine! The first bobbin (screw side, 5218 winds) is a LITTLE fatter at the bottom, but is kinda "lumpy", then the second wind (slug side, 5015) ended up (as you can see in the pic) a great deal fatter near the bottom. But the weird part is it's not the same on the other side. The coil is sort of like a parallelogram??? Weird. But it's my first, I'm sure I'll learn (advise welcome to get better shape) and I'm feeling these bobbins will WORK just fine and be a fun initial test.

Chris

Peter could be right check the alignment of the faceplate.

The parallelogram (for me) is do to the way you are winding the layers. It takes a while to become smooth and count the winds per layer. What usually happens is you wind across the bobbin smooth in one direction (left to right) then end up going faster on the return (right to left) eventually you will develop the technique.

Another thing you will notice after you stop causing the parallelogram is that the more scatter you have the more bulge the bobbin will have in the middle. This could be desirable or not...

Do any winders specifically create asymmetrical coils to alter the tonality of the pickups with positive results? If so, how does aligning the fatter end close to the string affect the tonality and vice versa? I'm taking an interest in this as I might get the opportunity to build an instrument this year *fingers crossed* and can't find a satisfactory alternative to genuine Rickenbacker bass pickups. I doubt I'll be able to afford to spin my own, but having a set custom spun might be an option.

Not trying to hijack Chris, just en-tangentising ;-)

Yes.

Have a look at the different shapes offered by Throbak pickups:

http://www.gundrymedia.typepad.com/

I made a thread here some three four years ago about what part of the coil (upper vs lower) contributed with the most output. I have not experimented enough to say for sure what the sound of each part, but about 2/3 of the output on a Strat pickup comes from the upper half. Hmmm, I might have that experimental coil still laying around some where...

Throbak has a nice explanation of different stuff... a lot of Vintage voodoo going on there (I take all of it with a grain of salt as PAF guys are crazy).

I will not get into my personal voodoo but will say that all parts of winding matters. Tension, stretch, shape, numbers, size.... Very important in my book.

Parts are the other important part (also very important).