The 2 Month Curing Period

[esppse]

ever since my previous buffing mistake, i lost a lot of time that should have went into my album recording process.

I have repainted the guitar and put on the last coat of clear today.

I have a question,

I know its not "safe", but is it "ok" to assemble the guitar immediately with all the hardware and electronics and play it like a finished guitar?

I will handle it with care and it will be in my studio the whole time so its gonna be pretty safe. Sweat wont do too much to the curing process right?

2 months down the line, ill take out the hardware and electronics... then wet sand and buff.

Thanks guys!

[Blackdog]

I was reading your other post about the accident and it seems to me you're heading to making the same mistake once again.

First, assembling the guitar before at least 2-3 weeks of curing will certainly leave rather deep marks on the lacquer under the hardware as it will be a bit too soft. Also keep in mind that it will smell very badly. In my case is more than discomfort, breathing the solvent odours for more than a few minutes really sickens me.

Then, when the time comes to polish it you'll remove all your hardware and electronics leaving behind a significant number of screw holes and other spots of completely exposed wood. When you wet sand, water will get into these and you'll have the same lacquer cracking accident again.

You could take the time to drop-fill with lacquer all these holes before wet sanding, but it's going to be risky nonetheless. Personally I wouldn't do it.

How tight is your schedule ? If your finish is not too thick, you could possibly wet sand and buff the guitar after 3-4 weeks.

[Tim37]

heres the big question what kind of finish are you using. a lot of modern finishes can be buffed with in days if not hours. if you are using nitro just put it in the closet or where ever and forget it start on the next project and give it time.

[ihocky2]

In addition to what was mentioned when you go to take the hardware off to polish it, more than likely a good bit of hte paint will stick to the hardware and pull and chip the paint. Plus, with the finish being so soft it will wear easier as you play it and more than likely you will leave imprints in it, especially on the back from your shirt.

Not worth the risk.

[esppse]

im actually not using nitrocellulose this time around because i believed the same cracking would happen. I read a couple of guitar painting books and used krylon spray paints. I know!! all u nitroheads looking down at me ! but i emptied like 4 cans of clear onto that baby (in additional to the sealer and the primer).

btw, thats a great idea Blackdog! to fill the holes before wetsanding, i shoulda thought of that!

so how long until a Krylon finish be buffed? (i see cars being painted with krylon, which means it must be really durable to protect it against rain and stuff)

[MiKro]

>snip< but i emptied like 4 cans of clear onto that baby (in additional to the sealer and the primer).>snip<

4 cans of clear on the first finish? I count 7-10 days for each coat of clear before it ever thinks about final sanding and buffing when using Lacquer. ??? I don't care that the can says that it is dry in hours and final in 7 days. That's for just 1 coat. Even Krylon you need to wait some period based on how many coats you have. If it's an acrylic enamel I would not do anything for a least 4 to 7 days per coat with it. And that depends on the thickness of each coat. From a rattle can they tend to be thicker in my opinion since you have no control over the mix for spraying vs using a spray gun.

Just my .02cents worth.

Good Luck,

MK

[esppse]

>snip< but i emptied like 4 cans of clear onto that baby (in additional to the sealer and the primer).>snip<

4 cans of clear on the first finish? I count 7-10 days for each coat of clear before it ever thinks about final sanding and buffing when using Lacquer. ??? I don't care that the can says that it is dry in hours and final in 7 days. That's for just 1 coat. Even Krylon you need to wait some period based on how many coats you have. If it's an acrylic enamel I would not do anything for a least 4 to 7 days per coat with it. And that depends on the thickness of each coat. From a rattle can they tend to be thicker in my opinion since you have no control over the mix for spraying vs using a spray gun.

Just my .02cents worth.

Good Luck,

MK

thanks for the reply Mikro, the 4 cans of clear was actually the second attempt, the Krylon coats. its not the acrylic enamel though, its the acrylic lacquer one. does Krylon cure faster than Nitro? i see cars from collision shops being buffed days after they are painted. technically, it should be more effective on wood because wood absorbs paint more than metal or plastic on cars.

7 days for one coat? how thick are your coats? for me, each can did 3 coats (both body and neck, though the wind blew and wasted some decent amount of it, lol)

Im probably gonna wait those months before buffing though, but right now i need a guitar to record my album and im trying to figure out the least amount of time i need to put the hardware and electronics back into place. then dissemble the guitar and buff in a few months later.

thanks!

[ScottR]

I hate to tell you this, but I used that acrylic laquer clear--Duplex I think--and 8 months later it was still getting impressions in it from the shirt I was wearing. Apparently it behaves differently on wood than it does on metal. Mayyybe Krylon is better.....but I doubt it.

SR

[Workingman]

Some body shops are able to heat the parts to make the process faster.

[esppse]

Some body shops are able to heat the parts to make the process faster.

how hot? like should i put it in an oven at low heat?

[westhemann]

how hot? like should i put it in an oven at low heat?

NO!!!

Unless you like explosions.

Look,if you wanted a quick drying finish,you should have used a multi-part finish..I use Sherwinn Williams conversion varnish,and it is ready to level sand in 15 minutes,buff in 12 hours,and assemble in 24...

I realize this is little help now,but spray can finishes are slow drying...they have to be,to not harden in the can on the shelf...that is why the most durable,fastest drying finishes are multi-part and that is why they are mixed fresh and used within a couple of hours of mixing...

You should NEVER paint your only guitar...

Now stop trying to rush the process and either wait the required weeks or even months...or forget about not ruining your finish.Sorry to be the one to say it,but these other guys are tiptoeing around the horrible truth,which is that you made a mistake by painting a guitar you needed quickly with a slow drying paint,and to make it even slower,you put it on thick.

[esppse]

how hot? like should i put it in an oven at low heat?

NO!!!

Unless you like explosions.

Look,if you wanted a quick drying finish,you should have used a multi-part finish..I use Sherwinn Williams conversion varnish,and it is ready to level sand in 15 minutes,buff in 12 hours,and assemble in 24...

I realize this is little help now,but spray can finishes are slow drying...they have to be,to not harden in the can on the shelf...that is why the most durable,fastest drying finishes are multi-part and that is why they are mixed fresh and used within a couple of hours of mixing...

You should NEVER paint your only guitar...

Now stop trying to rush the process and either wait the required weeks or even months...or forget about not ruining your finish.Sorry to be the one to say it,but these other guys are tiptoeing around the horrible truth,which is that you made a mistake by painting a guitar you needed quickly with a slow drying paint,and to make it even slower,you put it on thick.

ah man,

well, every morning, i am bringing the guitar outside (warm and windy here in NJ this summer) to speed up the curing process. btw, do you have a link to the type of paint you used westhemann? does it have come in black too? is it more durable than those poly finishes?

anyways, i stumbled upon this video recently.

they have a curing oven in that factory, does any other place have one of those i can use? maybe itll work?

[WezV]

the simplest solution i can offer is to decide you are not bothered if the finish is perfect and carry on

if thats not what you want then you are just going to have to wait.

an infared heater can help, but only if its been sprayed properly in the first place and if the lamp is used with care... i.e - gently, from a distance and not rushed. its about keeping it a little warm rather than heating it up, and i wouldn't recommend it on necks. if the paint was applied too thickly and quickly rushing it may cure the surface first before the underneath layers with obvious results

[westhemann]

btw, do you have a link to the type of paint you used westhemann? does it have come in black too? is it more durable than those poly finishes?

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&prodno=035777241325&doctype=PDS&lang=E

You should really research on finishes if you plan on doing this again.All paint starts as clear gloss,then color,flattening agents,etc are added for the desired color,gloss level,etc...

In other words,this finish is a clear gloss,to which you add a pigment or dye to get the color you want...like these

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Dyes&NameProdHeader=TransTint%AE+Dyes+

Although those are translucent dyes.

This finish costs nearly $100 for a gallon with the catalyst and thinner(xylene),and it has to be mixed fresh and sprayed.I used the Preval sprayers on my last one,because I don't have a spray setup yet.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=preval+&x=0&y=0

This is a finish done in this manner with translucent dyes

It is not "easy" to get a good finish with any product,but the quickness of this to cure and it's relative cheapness and versatility is why I use it...

As far as durability,"those poly finishes" cover a really broad range,and I have no idea what you mean...if you mean spray can polyurethane(like minwax),then yes,this is more durable..if you mean multi-part automotive polyester,like this

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/higlosstopcoat.php

Then no,it is not as durable as that..the sherwinn williams stuff is very similar to "real" nitro...by which I mean what Gibson uses..also a catalytic finish...but it doesn't check over time(according to the makers) like nitro.

It was created as a bar top finish,so it is pretty durable..if you have ever seen a really glossy bar top,then that is what this was made for.

Those spray cans you find at the hardware stores are really just for hobby level quality...the retarders they add to keep it from hardening in the can over time really affect the durability,in my opinion.

Also,adding color affects the durability,which is why color coats should be topped with clear coats.

[esppse]

thanks for all the help and information guys i really appreciate it.

im definitely going to use that sherwinn stuff the next time i paint a guitar. btw, thats a very awesome finish on that guitar wes! im also really intrigued by that aircraft poly finish, looks that a guitar with that finish can take a hit!

status update:

so far, i left the guitar out yesterday (all day long), the krylon acrylic coat first appeared very dull and rough. as a couple days progressed, i noticed parts of the finish got glossier, smoother, and harder (especially the maple neck). ill keep you posted on this krylon stuff and how it turns out.

im definitely not expecting perfection here though since its my first paint job (well second if you count the screwup)

[MiKro]

>snip<

7 days for one coat? how thick are your coats?

>snip<

My coats are maybe a 0.5mil thick. I use a spray rig and thin and mix my own lacquers using clear lacquer and trans tint dyes to add color and thinners and or retarding agents to control flash off times depending on temp and humidity. Nitro takes time period. As Wes has said, there are tougher, harder and faster drying finishes. They take a process each of their own to use and master.

[westhemann]

Bottom line is that finishing can be the bane of your existence and you will always be unsure of it,or it can be the most fun you can have while building a guitar...IF you learn about it...Drak told me to get "understanding wood finishing" by Bob Flexner...I still have it and I never regret reading it...

[FireFly]

If you're leaving your guitar out in the sun to dry, the top coat will cure first. This will result in the bottom coats not being able to gas off properly. The result is a cloudy, uneven finish.

[esppse]

If you're leaving your guitar out in the sun to dry, the top coat will cure first. This will result in the bottom coats not being able to gas off properly. The result is a cloudy, uneven finish.

oooh i havent thought of that

how can you tell when the top coat is cured? or how can you tell when the whole guitar is cured?

[westhemann]

You aren't doing enough research..you need to read and search through old tutorials.If this is the first you have heard of the top coat flashing off,and you don't know how to tell when a finish is cured enough to assemble,then you need to read.

Too many basic questions after you already did the work just shows that you rushed in without doing your due diligence..which is something we all have done,but if you hope to get results in the future you have to get over that.

Have you even gone here?

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showforum=31

And read those?

[erikbojerik]

(1) If you can still smell the chemicals coming from the finish, it's not done yet.

(2) If you can dent the finish with your fingernail, its not ready to buff yet (select an out-of-the-way place like the back of the headstock to test this).

Most people think when they're done with the woodwork and assembly, they're almost done with the guitar. If you're planning on an oil finish, that's mostly true. But in reality, if you're doing your own painting and/or clear coat finishing, you're about 50% done - in other words, for a good spray finish you can end up spending almost as much time on the finish as the whole rest of the instrument.

Even after doing your homework, so much of finishing is trial and error, everyone who has stuck with it and strived to learn good finishing technique has probably stripped 2-3 times as many finishes as they've buffed out.