erikbojerik Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Lots of chatter going on now about the US Fish & Wildlife Service raids on Gibson, and whether certain woods are legal to import under the Lacey Act (written in 1900, amended in 2008). Summarized below: News story on Gibson raid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I do hope they get that straightened out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 They got nothin on me. I don't use any wood from outside the US In fact, probably 90% of my wood comes from within a 50 mile radius of my shop. Now, if the old man down the road figures out what happened to the door of his barn, that could be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 They got nothin on me. I don't use any wood from outside the US In fact, probably 90% of my wood comes from within a 50 mile radius of my shop. Now, if the old man down the road figures out what happened to the door of his barn, that could be a different story. LOL I think this is the way to go, though. I really need to get a chainsaw. I'm always seeing CL ads for big pecan trees that need to be cut down. I wish I could figure out a reliable source of native Texas woods oily enough to not require a finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Its starting to be a real problem. I get my ebony & rosewood directly from a supplier in India thru my timber guy here. They are supposed to be fine, according to India they are sustainably cut that is exported legaly as a product, & my timber guys import licences let him get them in & sell them on to me. But I have one guitar stuck in USA customs at the moment because it has an ebony board, rosewood back & top & paua bindgng/inlays. They want a whole heap of permits & licences & all sorts of other documentation for me to even get it back. the cost of all the documentation I will need is almost %20 of the value of the guitar. Then I have to pay to have it shipped back to me, & my customer is probobly going to have to forfit his instrument as I cant get it to him. Not his fault, so Im going to have to refund him his funds, in full. which means I will have a guitar built at cost to me that I dont realy want. Which sucks for the customer (who has waited 14 months for this guitar) & makes me look bad. I also have 2 more that are kinda similar. rosewood or ebony or both on them. Also for USA customers. those are due to go out in about a month. but it looks like im screwd on them aswell. This thing is also retroactive. which means that stocks of ebony I have had for the past 10 years are also affected. & maby even guitars built 10-15 or even 20 or more years ago come under this law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 One would think that guitars built (and perhaps wood obtained) prior to the 2008 amendment would be excused, but there is no language stating this clearly and so (unfortunately) it is up to US Customs and whether or not you get an agent that happens to be a zealot! The crazy thing about this Lacey Act amendment - and it application to Gibson - is that India approved the shipments to Gibson and LMI, but the US is claiming that India's interpretation of World Trade Organization export codes is not correct. Basically Uncle Sam telling India they are wrong in how they export their own material! Talk about government overreach.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Holy sh!t paulie? Seriously? Crap. Retroactive is crap... I have rosewood that was obtained legally 25 years ago. Hope they don't raid my shop... I have no clue were some of my stash came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I wish I could figure out a reliable source of native Texas woods oily enough to not require a finish. Mesquite is great for fretboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I wish I could figure out a reliable source of native Texas woods oily enough to not require a finish. Mesquite is great for fretboards. Really? Not to hijack the thread, but I thought mesquite required a finish. Am I wrong? EDIT: Just gotta say, Paulie...that's unbelievably lousy. Edited October 6, 2011 by dpm99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 The crazy thing about this Lacey Act amendment - and it application to Gibson - is that India approved the shipments to Gibson and LMI, but the US is claiming that India's interpretation of World Trade Organization export codes is not correct. Basically Uncle Sam telling India they are wrong in how they export their own material! Talk about government overreach.... Prety much got it spot on there. they need to get this sorted. exact word of the law & all that crap. If I can trace all of my materials back to source & have documentation to proove it all then that should be enough. Also, the realy anoying thig about the guitar they have just now is that the customer ordered the fretboard himself & shipped it to me. He got it from stewie mac. He got the rosewood from some exotics specialist near his home also. So it all came from the U.S. in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpenter's blues Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 One would think that guitars built (and perhaps wood obtained) prior to the 2008 amendment would be excused, but there is no language stating this clearly and so (unfortunately) it is up to US Customs and whether or not you get an agent that happens to be a zealot! The crazy thing about this Lacey Act amendment - and it application to Gibson - is that India approved the shipments to Gibson and LMI, but the US is claiming that India's interpretation of World Trade Organization export codes is not correct. Basically Uncle Sam telling India they are wrong in how they export their own material! Talk about government overreach.... Since when do we interpret the laws of other countries and act unilaterally based on our assumptions? oh wait... Obviously customs law is beyond me, but this all seems rather arcane. I should be able to buy "unfinished" wood products from other countries as long as they're not endangered or dangerous, and I'm not even sure about the endangered part. I'm all for sustainability (especially as I'm in construction- I use a lot of wood products), but I'm uncertain anybody should tell another country how to manage their resources. It's all very complicated. I think I'll clear my head by playing an illegal Les Paul for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Well,I have half a dozen ebony boards from Stewmac that I bought like two years ago,plus some Gaboon ebony I am using on my current project,which I bought here in the US,plus several guitars with ebony boards,including an import from Japan(an Edwards) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 ship the guitar to mexico or canada then the guy can drive there and pic it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntinDoug Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Well,I have half a dozen ebony boards from Stewmac that I bought like two years ago,plus some Gaboon ebony I am using on my current project,which I bought here in the US,plus several guitars with ebony boards,including an import from Japan(an Edwards) If I am not mistaken, as long as you have a document or receipt proving the board(s) were purchased from a retailer like StewMac, you should not have any problems. The proof would fall on the company that imported the wood. Although, I have decided that from now on, if I ship a guitar anywhere outside the US, I plan on including a copy of the original receipt for the inlay materials and any exotic woods used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I wish I could figure out a reliable source of native Texas woods oily enough to not require a finish. Mesquite is great for fretboards. Really? Not to hijack the thread, but I thought mesquite required a finish. Am I wrong? EDIT: Just gotta say, Paulie...that's unbelievably lousy. Just use some Danish oil. Also check into Texas ebony. And agreed Paulie, that does suck tremendously. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 This whole thing is rather ridiculous - I read that NAMM has gotten involved now. There's not enough problems in this country - let's pick on guitar makers for some total misinterpretation of law designed to protect birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Well for the most part the Mexican gov is looking for drugs so are the Americans at the boarder I would be willing to bet it woukd be pretty easy to get a guitar across just leave it out in the open like its nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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