Getting Rid Of Fret Buzz On A Low Action Guitar. No Neck Relief = Good

[DrummerDude]

I'm not sure that you will reach your goal without perfectly leveled frets (what wez said).

For more (or better) advise we need a bit more info, what string gauge you use, on which frets you get buzz, were you get dead notes etc. You can get perfectly buzz-free low action on a dead straight frretboard if you are using thin strings (.008" set), file a slight slope for the highest frets when fretdressing and a light attack/pick hand) But if you are lika me, heavy-handed and using thick strings (.010" to .052") it is my experience that you need a bit of relief in the fretboard. And you need higher action on the bass string, tilting the bridge a bit.

I get buzz on the 12+ frets but the buzz appears only when I am fretting up there.

There is no buzz if I am playing something on the lower frets. I guess this means that the 12+ frets are not leveled well.

I also get buzz on the lower positions on thicker strings.

I really don't know what the string gauge is, but I suggest they are 0.08s or 0.09s - it's the string set the guitar came with.

These strings are way too thin for my liking but I am trying to get a softer and lower feel on the strings because I have been playing with 0.11s for the last 5 years and those are quite hard, not only in standard E, but also in the low drop tunings that I use for my death metal project.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DrummerDude

[82cabby]

You've got 1mm between the 12th fret and the string. What measurement do you get if you lay a straight edge down the middle of the frets and check the gap at the 12th? Have you confirmed that the neck is straight? has relief (how much)? has a back bow?

[DrummerDude]

You've got 1mm between the 12th fret and the string. What measurement do you get if you lay a straight edge down the middle of the frets and check the gap at the 12th? Have you confirmed that the neck is straight? has relief (how much)? has a back bow?

I have only checked the relief between the 16th and the 1st frets, as advised by WezV.

The relief at the 7th fret is equal to the thickness of the G string. Don't really know how much is that in millimeters but I believe that it is less than 1/3mm.

EDIT:

I just checked the relief of the neck between the 22th and the 1st fret and it's roughly about 1/2mm at the 12th fret.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DrummerDude

[LightninMike]

as WesV is suggesting: start at the beginning.....

here is an excellent tutorial for doing your fret level: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technical/201556-fret-leveling-yer-tele-101-a.html

once done, you need to set the intonation, this involves making sure the nut and bridge are set correctly, as well as the relief of the neck....

[DrummerDude]

WezV, I am very happy with my current setup. As I mentioned, I was able to get 1mm action at the 12th without any fret buzz by raising the TOM just a hair on the side of the thicker strings. This magically fixed the fret buzz on the thinner strings too, even if I did not tweak that side of the TOM bridge.

What I have learned is that an action of 1mm at the 12th sounds cool on paper but for some reason it still feels to high to my fingers... I guess I'm just going action-crazy here.

Today I tuned the guitar half a step down to E flat (a.k.a. D sharp) and now I am getting a little bit of fret buzz because of the sloppier strings. They wobble a lot because I'm a heavy picker and I'm using picks made out of coins. That little bit of fret buzz is not a biggie though, I can perfectly live with that.

[DrummerDude]

once done, you need to set the intonation, this involves making sure the nut and bridge are set correctly, as well as the relief of the neck....

Thanks for bringing this up.

The bridge is positioned too far back. The thicker gauge strings go flat at the 12th fret octave and the studs need to be moved towards the neck. However, the studs are already moved forward to their Max. The bridge is just too far back and I can't do anything about it.

Adding thicker gauge strings could solve this problem but I don't want to use thick ones. So I guess I will just have to live with a guitar that can't be intonated properly.

[WezV]

So I guess I will just have to live with a guitar that can't be intonated properly.

drummerdude i would be very surprised if that is actually the case. I have come across very few guitars that cant be intonated with a normal gauge of string and tuning.

if you are struggling to get it intonated the first thing you need to do is buy new string as, as the gauge you are not sure of that came on the guitar will possibly be a pile of crap and are not what you want for adjusting intonation.

i think you need to step back a bit from this guitar, we have had numerous threads about its problems and now you are stating it will never intonate correctly..... you need to step back and see 'the big set-up picture'.

the chances of the bridge being in the wrong place are actually quite minimal. i wont say it never happens, but i have never seen it happen on a new guitar made in that last 10 years. the only times i have considered moving a bridge on a new guitar is when it was required to do a very low tuning with very heavy strings.

Glad you are now happy with the set-up.

You have already learned that a slight change can make a big difference, you just need to realise there are many slight changes you can make and they all make a big difference... that is what i mean by 'seeing the big picture'. trial and error set-ups never work as anything other than learning exercises, you need to start learning how all those little adjustments work together!

fwiw my guitars average 1.2mm at the 12th fret and all are buzz free. oh, but then someone comes round who is a bit heavy handed and now none of them are buzz free. 'the big picture' is not just about realising how all these things affect each other, its about realising how they can be made to work for different playing styles

[DrummerDude]

if you are struggling to get it intonated the first thing you need to do is buy new string as, as the gauge you are not sure of that came on the guitar will possibly be a pile of crap and are not what you want for adjusting intonation.

The idea with this guitar is to have low action and thin strings for easy playing.

I sure can use thicker gauge bottom strings on the guitar and this would fix the intonation problem that is caused by the too distant bridge, but that would also kill the initial idea of having soft strings.

Oh, and by the way: the slots in the nut don't allow for anything thicker than what I am using now (I guess 0.09's), so thicker strings won't go in the slots without the need of filing them wider. At this stage I'm too busy enjoying the holidays to bother with that new issue too.

BTW, Merry Christmas to all!

[LightninMike]

"The idea with this guitar is to have low action and thin strings for easy playing" i don't really buy that.......case in point, just helped set up a Gibson with a tailpiece that got raised and the bridge lowered with 12's on in a drop tuning.... very smooth and comfy.... no buzz and no slop.... just a good playing guitar..... and intonated correctly....

WezV was very right in suggesting you step back and take a breather..... I know that sometimes the problem is that I am looking at it too closely.... Relax, breathe and take a day or so away from the guitar, then step back in fresh and take a look

[SwedishLuthier]

I had a look at your bridge from the "lower the TOM" tread. The saddles on for the bass strings are angled toward the string holder. Most TOMs allow you to flip the saddles and position them in the other direction, allowing for even further adjustment of intonation. Have you tried that.

Also, intonation is the adjustment of scale length caused by he strings stretching while being pushed toward the frets. With lower string action, the need for intonation is lesser. Thought experiment: Imagine a guitar with 0mm action (yeah no sound, but please have imagination). With that guitar there would not be any need to adjust intonation at the bridge because of the strings stretching. When getting a low or super low action the need for adjustment isn't as big and it might be possible (I'm only thinking out loud here) that with thin strings and low action that the adjustment needs will be out of range for that specific TOM.

[WezV]

I was not telling you to use a different gauge of string... i was telling you to use new strings. I would never try to intonate a guitar without using fresh strings, just stretched in.

9 out of 10 times when people cant get a guitar to intonate new strings will solve the issue. even if it turns out not to be the issue its always worth spending the cost of a pack of strings before you start moving bridges.

you think the bridge needs to be closer to the neck to cope with using 8's on the 24 3/4" scale length. You are correct, in that it will need to be closer to the neck than it does with 9's and if you used heavier strings it would need to go further away from the neck. and the low action does mean it will need to be shorter too... but try not to forget that the string should never end up shorter than the scale length

set the bridge saddles to their midpoint and see if you can measure along the high and low E strings.

High E

Front edge of nut to middle of 12th fret =

Front edge of nut to bridge saddle =

Low E

Front edge of nut to middle of 12th fret =

Front edge of nut to bridge saddle =

That will allow us to tell you instantly if the bridge actually needs moving

[DrummerDude]

I'm good with this guitar for now, folks. Thanks for all your help.

Will continue the tweaking process after the holidays.

I will start by flipping the saddles on the thicker strings. It looks like doing this would get them some extra 4mm closer to the neck! I think this would be enough to fix the problem with the lowers strings going flat at the 12th.

Thanks for noticing this, Swedish Luthier.

I will also change the strings, as WezV advised. I may even put on thinner strings of good quality and see how it goes.