Eco Guitar Project (lots Of Pics Inside)

[mwcarl]

Thanks Prostheta, I missed that when I was reading the original post. Looks great, and I like the concept. The body shape really matches well with the bridge.

[Prostheta]

Cool build I have worked with this type of material in the past when I worked in a countertop fabrication plant. We didn't use paperstone, but I'm familiar with it. It is basically phenolic resin and thin sheets of paper compressed at high pressure. Commercial laminates (Formica, Wilsonart, Pionite..etc) are a thin version of this material. The only way I know of to get it to adhere to another surface long term is contact adhesive, which would most likely effect the tone. Epoxy may work...never tried it. Phenolic material is very dense. It will dull tooling very quickly.

I would look into a "rail" type fret stock similar to what is on a chapman stick.

I agree about the approach to fretting Doug. Perhaps even the old Fender method of inserting frets from the side in suitably milled slots. I have problems in that I overengineer how I perceive these things. Maybe the old Martin way is superior of course.

[Scott French]

Thanks Prostheta, I missed that when I was reading the original post. Looks great, and I like the concept. The body shape really matches well with the bridge.

Am I right in noticing that it doesn't have a nut?

Thanks! Yep, Prostheta has it, each string has it's own nut element.

[Scott French]

Cool build I have worked with this type of material in the past when I worked in a countertop fabrication plant. We didn't use paperstone, but I'm familiar with it. It is basically phenolic resin and thin sheets of paper compressed at high pressure. Commercial laminates (Formica, Wilsonart, Pionite..etc) are a thin version of this material. The only way I know of to get it to adhere to another surface long term is contact adhesive, which would most likely effect the tone. Epoxy may work...never tried it. Phenolic material is very dense. It will dull tooling very quickly.

I would look into a "rail" type fret stock similar to what is on a chapman stick.

Thanks! You hit the nail on the head: Proprietary phenolic resin + recycled newsprint + pressure + heat! We're not exactly blazing trails here. I know Ernie Ball did a few with Paperstone and David King did at least one. The CS guy I talked to at PanelTech when I bought this stuff suggested West Systems G/Flex 655 as the epoxy they could confirm worked. I just used a generic 2-part from the hardware store and it worked fine. I tried one with no scuffing and titebond... it peeled right off after a few hours of clamping. Ouch!

Standard frets worked fine too! Other than an extra round of slotting I didn't really modify my process at all. I hadn't seen those Chapman rails until now though, pretty awesome!

[Prostheta]

I was throwing the idea of making my own composites using a mix of textile and wood fibres as filler with recycled fabrics to give "grain". If it is cured in a former, I presume that it would be possible to key the underside with say, dovetails or other physical joint. It goes without saying that epoxy is going to be the best method of affixing these materials.

[RestorationAD]

I like this... I would rather see it in the end of the guitar with the set screw coming in from behind but awesome just the same.

If it is ok with you I would like to steal a form of this idea.

Thank you for the wax ideas. However you didn't give us a long term recap on the wax. I would be interested to know how it has held up. I use a carnauba blend myself (purchased years ago of course... and I have never found a replacement).

[Scott French]

I like this... I would rather see it in the end of the guitar with the set screw coming in from behind but awesome just the same.

If it is ok with you I would like to steal a form of this idea.

Thank you for the wax ideas. However you didn't give us a long term recap on the wax. I would be interested to know how it has held up. I use a carnauba blend myself (purchased years ago of course... and I have never found a replacement).

Go for it. I was trying to get through the rest of the progress pics before outlining all the results. I'm not really sure on the wax. It's still pretty tough to apply but once you "warm it up" by rubbing with a cloth it works. I think it gives a pretty good shine but it doesn't seem to last as long as the Warwick stuff I used years ago. That being said some other more natural options I've used also didn't seem to last as long so I may have some unrealistic goals here. I have a bunch of tins if you'd like to give it a try.

[Scott French]

More progress shots... almost done.

Test fitting the pickguard and bridge. Note the knobs and baby grand are still raw here.

Test fitting neck. Neck carve mates up with the heel. Raw aluminum ferrules here too.

Close up of scarf joint, brass side dot and neck lam.

Neck and body getting oiled. I ended up using pure, filtered, triple boiled linseed oil. Seems to cure slower than the Watco I've used in the past but nothing outrageous.

Here's a good shot of the custom anodized Hipshot hardware. I got this done in a batch at a local metal finishing place. I was able to do the logo dots, string guides, neck screw ferrules, strap buttons, bridge, and knobs. The tuners were already anodized green although in the future I'd like to get those raw too.

I was able to buy a bunch of these unfinished. I'll be able to do custom color hardware on my guitars for quite a while. The polishing was an absolute pain in the butt. I got a raw tumbled bridge anodized with the first run as a test and it actually looked pretty good. I'm going to avoid the polishing step moving forward.

Electronics!

Switch made in USA, Pots made in Canada... pretty stoked to find some non-china options for this stuff. Switchcraft is pretty common but I had not heard of Precision Electronic Components until Bruce from Johnson's Extremely Strange Musical Instrument Company let me in on these. They are SUPER HEAVY DUTY. The action is a little stiff but very solid and feels nice. You can get them from Digi-Key.

[Wretched]

So great to see someone thinking outside of the box AND thinking environmentally. In all the 'thinking' I've done about what I'd do when building a guitar, the sustainability of the parts I'd have chosen didn't even enter my mind until I saw this build and I would normally consider myself fairly aware of such things. Excellent!

[Prostheta]

Any chance of plotting the accuracy of the taper on these pots, Scott? I'm interested in how the numbers stack up against the physical characteristics!

Now why oh why do you need so much hardware when you make so few instruments?

That's some stocking up right there.

[Scott French]

Any chance of plotting the accuracy of the taper on these pots, Scott? I'm interested in how the numbers stack up against the physical characteristics!

I've never done this. If you have some guidelines I'll test a few pots for you. I bought a ton of them to get bulk pricing.

Now why oh why do you need so much hardware when you make so few instruments?

That's some stocking up right there.

Like I said in the beginning of the thread, the plan was to build a big batch. I have enough of everything except pickups to build 15+ of these. This was before I got married and had a baby. Back then I was still trying convince myself it was possible to have a 9-5 job and still build a good amount of guitars. I was wrong even then. Now with job and family to take care of I think these parts will last me a very long time.

[Scott French]

So great to see someone thinking outside of the box AND thinking environmentally. In all the 'thinking' I've done about what I'd do when building a guitar, the sustainability of the parts I'd have chosen didn't even enter my mind until I saw this build and I would normally consider myself fairly aware of such things. Excellent!

Thanks! The goal was to challenge myself and hopefully inspire some others to try new things too. I've actually done a big writeup on how this project came about with some more in-depth thoughts on this stuff but I have a feeling a link to my blog would be considered a commercial link and get me in trouble.

[Prostheta]

Any chance of plotting the accuracy of the taper on these pots, Scott? I'm interested in how the numbers stack up against the physical characteristics!

I've never done this. If you have some guidelines I'll test a few pots for you. I bought a ton of them to get bulk pricing.

Mount a pot onto a piece of board and pop on a marker knob like a speed knob or other marked 0-10 in 1/2 increments. Mark the "0" point on the board and progressively measure the resistance between one of the track tags and the wiper each increment. See what Excel throws out plotting them up in a graph. Some manufacturers are "better" than others in trying to approximate log tapers for example, although none at the guitar builder end of the spectrum really do so. If these are very high end pots, there will likely be a more faithful taper curve also.

More curiosity than anything else really, Scott. Musicians don't really perceive taper approximations much apart from the extreme ends of the track (full on/off) but it's good to see how they stack up otherwise.

[Anthony]

This build is beautiful.

[Scott French]

This build is beautiful.

Thanks, Anthony!

[Scott French]

Mount a pot onto a piece of board and pop on a marker knob like a speed knob or other marked 0-10 in 1/2 increments. Mark the "0" point on the board and progressively measure the resistance between one of the track tags and the wiper each increment. See what Excel throws out plotting them up in a graph. Some manufacturers are "better" than others in trying to approximate log tapers for example, although none at the guitar builder end of the spectrum really do so. If these are very high end pots, there will likely be a more faithful taper curve also.

More curiosity than anything else really, Scott. Musicians don't really perceive taper approximations much apart from the extreme ends of the track (full on/off) but it's good to see how they stack up otherwise.

Theses certainly aren't audiophile pots as far as the pricing or marketing indicate. I think they are more on the industrial/military side of things. Anyway, here are some quick and dirty numbers. The little markers I measured off were kind of funky so both ends are a little off.

[Prostheta]

It certainly looks like an approximation of a log taper rather than being finely graduated, so it is no different to your common or garden audio taper pot I guess. The ends of tapers tend to be a bit misleading anyway since it is difficult to transition to the full on/full off points from the track smoothly. They look as though they're showing fairly predictable tolerance over the tracks (or just good specimens)....5% tolerance?

[Scott French]

5% tolerance?

They're listed at 10% but every one I've checked has been much tighter. Some of the older CTS and alpha pots I've used have read down around 460 but all of these have been pretty close to 500. I think I have a few more open somewhere. I'll try to find them and check.

[Scott French]

I've been meaning to do my final writeup on this project for a while but haven't had the time. For now here are some nicer photos.

[Anthony]

That is pure magic as is, but I would've put a curly maple pickguard stained to match the hardware. But I like funky.

[Wretched]

You thought about submitting your work to mags like Premier Guitar for their luthier section at the back of the magazine each issue? Would be great to see such workmanship get some exposure on a wide scale.

[Scott French]

That is pure magic as is, but I would've put a curly maple pickguard stained to match the hardware. But I like funky.

Thanks, Anthony. I might take you up on that for another one. I don't know if I trust a piece of wood that thin to behave but a figured maple veneer laminated to brass or aluminum stock might look cool. If you like funky check out Peter Malinoski, his stuff is the funkiest... one of my favorite builders.

You thought about submitting your work to mags like Premier Guitar for their luthier section at the back of the magazine each issue? Would be great to see such workmanship get some exposure on a wide scale.

I haven't been on the PR hunt for a while as I'm not currently taking orders. I've turned down a lot of work over the past few years and for now I just want to build, refine my ideas, try new things, etc. I have been in a few buyers guides and books. One of my guitars is actually in this new book from Robert Shaw (http://www.roberteshaw.com/Guitars.html). I only have two small pics in there but there are a TON of cool instruments featured, many of which I hadn't seen before. That's saying something because most of these big coffee table books sample from the same old range of images.

[Scott French]

Project wrap-up time. Here are a few details on successes and places to improve.

Good stuff:

• Overall I'm really happy I was able to use some new materials that worked out really well.
  
• Finished my first bolt-on guitar ever, including designing a new heel to match the headstock shape.
  
• Using FSC certified wood was no problem although sourcing it was a bit of a pain. Luckily I was able to find a local supplier that eventually made things pretty easy.
  
• The anodizing was painless and worked great. I can't see any reason why I wouldn't do this on all of my instruments moving forward.
  
• Discovered some cool products/companies that I hadn't heard of before including Paperstone, Splaff, Allback Linseed Oil (sadly not USA made), SoZo Capacitors, Precision Electronics Corporation, etc.
  
• Although I didn't use him for this project, I learned about Glenn Cronkhite, an awesome gigbag maker in the Bay Area that does really nice work.
  
  Places to improve:
  
  • Better/harder plastic for pickguards.
    
  • Possibly try out some Lace Alumitones if I can get them to match my hardware.
    
  • Find either different finishing product or better technique that wont turn the neck so yellow.
    
  • Find FSC veneer source.
    
  • Continue refining wax recipe.
    
  • Stay away from brass neck bolts.
    
  • Learn more about green electronics options, including grounding paint/foil.
    
  • Figure out side mount option for locking output jack.
    
  • Better strap button option. I hate these huge acorn style nuts.
    

  Overall a success but lots of details to figure out. I've started thinking about the next one... pretty sure it will be a carve top with either a small archtop style pickgaurd or none at all. I still have another set of green hardware from the initial anodizing batch so I can get started any time.

[verhoevenc]

Just a heads up. I put splittable black Alumitone humbuckers (not the metal ones, just normal black ones) in that fully hollow archtop hybrid thing awhile back. I put them in there thinking the hifi would let more of the natural sound of the guitar through and that the weight reduction would let the top vibrate more naturally.

I've come to hate them! I never play the guitar plugged in cause they just suck. I would take them out... but I have to do the whole "feed the electronics through the pickup route" gig... so I'll most likely only get around to that when I hate myself enough hahahah.

Chris

[Prostheta]

Inasmuch as you would like to find a source of FSC-certified veneer Scott, I believe that re-use is a far superior option to sourcing new materials. It does however present immediate supply limits in terms of repeatability for "production" instruments. My two cents.