Searls Guitars Build Thread

[John Morciglio]

Looks GREAT!

Was gonna ask if anybody actually used epoxy for grain filling?

Have been using System 3 "clearcoat" to kill pinholes for clear carbon finishes.

When searching Z-poxy, found the same System3 at some luthiers supply sites.

System3 instructions say it CAN be sanded the next day. I wait 48 to 72hrs min.

Tested on a scrap of mahogony and it seemed to work OK. If I'm doing a solid color, have some Duratec primer that we use for mold

making. This stuff is used at furniture factories. VERY hard/durable. Can be shot over rough surfaces as a heavy primer/filler.

It is also highly TOXIC. Probably the worst stuff I ever use in my shop. Shop is next to the house so I won't spray the nasty stuff unless the family can be out for the day. Epoxies are much safer.

JM

[Prostheta]

I imagine the dust is fairly insidious too.

[curtisa]

I used clear epoxy on my latest build as a grain filler, and used a scraper to remove the bulk of the dried epoxy. Much quicker and less dusty. Still hand to sand at the end to even it all up, but there was far less dust to deal with if I was to sand it all back in one hit.

Edited March 23, 2013 by curtisa

[Prostheta]

Yeah, when I was hitting back the legs on my bench after filling surface checks with epoxy I found piles of it accumulating and dropping off the end of the thickness sander despite there being more than adequate dust extraction. Maybe it likes to clump and socialise just to be a hazard for us.

[demonx]

A decent scraper would have been quite handy. I'll be adding one to my next stewmac order.

In the past I've never needed a scraper larger than a razor blade for anything so I've never bothered to buy one.

I can tell you that the epoxy really clogs up the sandpaper. I went through plenty whilst block sanding this one flat.

[Prostheta]

Don't bother with one from Stewmac unless it is the "ultimate" scraper. Even then you can make one to your own liking with a grinder and a piece of tool steel.

[RestorationAD]

A decent scraper would have been quite handy. I'll be adding one to my next stewmac order.

In the past I've never needed a scraper larger than a razor blade for anything so I've never bothered to buy one.

I can tell you that the epoxy really clogs up the sandpaper. I went through plenty whilst block sanding this one flat.

Try using wet/dry paper (I use 220 and 320 from 3M) and mineral spirits to block it.

[demonx]

Try using wet/dry paper (I use 220 and 320 from 3M) and mineral spirits to block it.

I was using 120 and 320, I dont bother to buy anything in the 200 range anymore. I was also dry sanding. I can understand wet sanding it would be neater as it removes the waste and helps reduce clogging, but for the purpose of hacking it back I'd rather keep to dry than wet sanding. Especially as this is only as grain fill and sealing stage, so theres a high change of sandthru, where I would not want anything touching the timber.

Don't bother with one from Stewmac unless it is the "ultimate" scraper. Even then you can make one to your own liking with a grinder and a piece of tool steel.

Caruth scraper is what I've been told to buy. I just searched the stewmac site and its the same thing as the ultimate scraper you mentioned.

[ScottR]

I find the Norton XXX sandpaper cut longer and clog less by far than any other brand out there. I don't know if it's available on the bottom half of the planet though.

SR

[westhemann]

Even the Norton clogs up with epoxy really quickly...it's just the nature of epoxy.If I am sanding an epoxy fill I sit right next to my compressor.

[Prostheta]

In a shared workspace, the best sandpaper to use when knocking epoxy back is somebody else's sandpaper. Available near you, NOW.

[ScottR]

I'm trying to remember if the Z-Poxy I used on the last one clogged up badly or not. On the one hand it is not standing out in my memory as a real problem so maybe not. On the other hand, since epoxy does typically do that and I too also always have the air hose at hand when doing that, it may not have been a memorable issue.

Then there is the issue that I no longer remember if I have a good memory or not.............

SR

[demonx]

I always have an airhose close by doing that type of sanding to blow out both the sandpaper and the surface.

Also use it when wet sanding to quickly dry the surface as wiping it off just smears. If I airhose it dry then wipe the dry mess off it's much quicker and easier to see what I'm working with

[demonx]

As far as norton paper. I have used lots of the stuff and the best thing about it is I don't use it anymore!

I found the norton (compared to a professional type paper) gave a crap finished surface, didn't last as long on my sander, as in the grip was wearing out before the grit did. So it's just not very good value for money. I was buying norton from bunnings (basically australias junk shop for tools) but swapped over to Makita paper from a decent tool shop and since then have swapped over to even better paper from a specialist place. Can't remember the make. That's for my random orbital paper. My rolls I buy from an automotive paint store.

[demonx]

Since we're discussing paint etc, I've been working on a couple customer guitars, basically just a repair and respray.

First one is a vintage BC Rich Warlock, Japan made. Has been stripped and resprayed before but they'd made a mess. The bevels had been made wonky and rounded, there ws some dodgy repair work. The neck had some splits in it where the grain had opened up. It gennerally needs some TLC.

This is how it arrived to me. Owner tried to start a resto and put it in the too hard basket:

Same owner also wants this vintage Mockingbird fixed and sprayed. He's had this one since the 80's and has tried to mod it in the past. THis is how it arrived to me:

First of all I stripped both of them back. The warlock I filled the splits with west systems epoxy and also used the same epoxy all over the whole guitar as a grain filler. Its been sanded back and is waiting for a day when I'm spraying clear coats.

The Mockingbird I stripped back and used a polly stopper to get some shape back into the body and to fill the didgy repairs that had been done in cheapo fibreglass bondo. The poly stopper is a product I had laying around from doing body work on a Corvette. Its a bondo, but its made different so it has an element of flex to work with the fibreglass car. So unlike normal car bondo which will move, crack, fall out etc, this poly stopper should work and move with the wood and stay in place forever undesturbed.

I then sealed the entire body with the west systems epoxy in hope that all the repairs will be invisable in the long run.

Mockingbird currently looks like this after a few coats of Autothane (PPG's trade range) high solids automotive primer.:

[maull]

That Mockingbird looks almost identical to my first rehab project. I was told this was a 1984 American made model. It was white and in almost as rough of shape as the one you have posted. After 18 years sitting in pieces in a box I turned it into this:

The photo sucks but you get the idea.

[demonx]

I was told this was a 1984 American made model.

I can tell you, yours is not USA made. It's Japanese, but the best years of the imports. They were closely based on the USA models and super high quality as opposed to the cheap **** imports of the later years. See how it says "Rich" down the headstock? Only even appeared on the very early imports.

Heres a link with more info:

http://mcs.acidpit.org/showthread.php?18323-BCR-Bible-Import-Guitars-%28non-USA%29

[maull]

I will have to read through that a bit more thoroughly when I have time. I do not have a serial number on this guitar and cannot recall if it had one when it came into my possession in roughly 1989ish it was beat up badly and wouldnt stay in tune. The headstock does have the N.J. Series logo. I looked it over and saw the neck bolts had been replaced with giant wood screws and the neck had a lot of movement to it. I could probably have done a lot of things better now that I look back but it was my first foray into working on a guitar. Perhaps someday I will revisit it. She really does play nice now though.

[demonx]

The headstock does have the N.J. Series logo.

Whoever told you its USA has no idea about these guitars! The N.J. stands for Nagoya Japan which is where all NJ's were first made until they moved the production to Korea and China to save money yet still kept the NJ title. There was NEVER a NJ series made in the USA by B.C. Rich.

[maull]

No need to get excited about it. I was told this almost 20 years ago. I never bothered to look into the providence (my fault). I was merely stating what information I had about the guitar.

[westhemann]

Whoever told you its USA has no idea about these guitars

He's right,NJ series was never made in the USA to my knowledge.Since they moved them from Japan though the NJ series has never been worth owning.I owned a few over the years but I passed them on as soon as I played them...cheap horrible stuff.

I have never played a Japan built model,but everything I have ever touched from Japan built after about 1980 has been top quality stuff.It says something about the guitar market that BC Rich,Jackson,etc would rather go with Chinese trash to save a buck rather than pay reasonable prices for top quality.

I think it is an ego thing...once Japanese quality reached the level of USA quality(and quickly surpassed it) USA guitars ditched them to hide the fact that we were slipping.

While Japanese quality rises,USA quality falls...and it's nobody's fault but our own.

[demonx]

Todays lesson... READ LABELS

I spent the whole morning doing paint prep.

I mixed up the last of my white base. I start spraying and it isn't spraying right. I adjust the air pressure and it's still not spraying right.

I then realised that I had grabbed a tin of clear coat instead of reducer and mixed that into the basecoat. It was orange peeling like all buggery and spraying like it was chalk or something.

I tried to spray thinner over the top to save it, which it did in parts but mostly unsavable.

Need to let it sit for that abomination mixture to cure so i can sand it off, then buy more white basecoat. Start again.

Looks ok in the pic, but up close it looks like a rattle can job by a 10 yo kid.

Only good thing to come out of today is I fitted a new bandsaw blade after breaking my old one a few days ago and I filed a bolt on heel to be a nice tight fit into the pocket of a bolt on 7 string I'm making. Other than that, todays a complete bust.

[Juntunen Guitars]

Ouch that's not fun. I had a similar issue the other day. I was sick and final sanding my archtop and thought I was good so I went and sprayed. Needless to say I looked at it the other day and noticed scratches all over the so I got to sand off a lot of the sealer to re-finish sand. I learned not to work on stuff like that when you are sick and have no patience.

By the way this build is looking good.

[demonx]

Todays a paint day, so no new pics, but before I started spraying I took a quick shot of this.

I pickup up the black plastic dust chute a few days ago as part of a store credit deal I have for selling my timber scraps through the shop, then I use the store credit to buy sandpaper, bandsaw blades and things like this. So basically I'm getting them for free as if I wasnt selling them they'd be getting burned as kindling.

The chute was $14.00 and the stands for the chute were over $100.00, so rather than buy a crazy priced stand, I bought the cheapest chinese mic stand from ebay for a few bucks and then attached the chute to the mic stand!

As the mic stand is highly adjustable, I can move it, make it higher or lower or change the angle to make this dust extraction suitable for a wide range of machines in the workshop.

[demonx]

Bit of cut and polishing today

Start off with a 2000 cut, then a 3000, then a polish with 3M perfect it and a soft waffle pad

Hanging inside after I took it into the house for a wipe down with a scratch proof hand polishing rag. This stage is basically to wipe off all the polish from the previous stage.

I still have not recieved the last of the hardware from the customer, so assembly will have to wait for a while.

You can see in the last pic that I have not wiped out the cavities. I've found its easier to clean these out when the polish has dried than it is when wet. When its wet it just smears around, when dry, it can be blown out in seconds with an airhose. So I'll do that just before assembly.