Lightening Mahogany For Masked Binding

[Stolysmaster]

If I wanted to lighten up the edge of an all mahogany guitar, body back & top, to create a masked binding look, how would I do it; bleach perhaps?

First, does bleach work for that purpose on mahogany?

Second, will bleach travel under the masking tape into the grain of the top and the sides that will be stained/dyed?

Third, is bleach the best way to lighten the mahogany? What about trying to dye it with some sort of white dye?

[Stolysmaster]

I did some research on older posts and apparently there is such a thing as "wood bleach", a two part compound I guess. I would prefer to use this over trying to dye part of the edge white. I'm after a more natural look, and since I plan on staining the rest of the mahogany a purple-ish red, a bleached mahogany for the masked binding would be just fine, and enough contrast.

I plan on finishing this one with Tru-Oil. That will be a first for me as I usually do a sprayed Nitro finish. Since this will be all mahogany, I guess I should mask off and bleach the faux binding area first, then mask it off and use a dark stained grain filler on the rest of the body, then sand the escess filler off and repeat that process again. After a few coats of Tru-Oil I will wet sand with 1200 grit and wipe the slurry accross the grain to fill in more, wipe it off, and then keep applying Tru-Oil until the finish is flat. Then after it gets pretty hard wet sand with 2000-3000 to get as much gloss out of it as possible.

How does that sound?

[Prostheta]

It would probably be easier to bleach the lot before sealing the binding and then colouring. Bleach isn't added liberally so your masking might be problematic.

[Stolysmaster]

Thanks for that advice Prostheta, should have thought that myself.

[Prostheta]

Sorry I posted this on the mobile earlier today so I had no opportunity to write anything fully or to re-read the original posts.

You could probably spray a similar toner to the "Mary Kay blonde" seen on some Fenders to lighten the binding. I don't think it would be an easy job to "dye" anything a lighter colour on the basis that most things darken materials. I have no direct experience on this myself, however the closest I can think of is the "limed" or "pickled" look which is actually white paint stuck in the grain of textured wood and ragged off the raised texture. Not the same!

I think that by bleaching the entire top you are then able to mask off the top, spray lacquer to seal the binding edge (or shellac it) to give yourself a greater safety margin before grain filling and staining the top. This stage should also serve as a fill for that part of the body.

Tru-Oil does penetrate wood a fair degree, especially on end-grain where it is drunk like a Heineken rider after an 80s Metallica gig. That oil will happily migrate under whatever sealing you have done on the faux binding and potentially discolour it from underneath.

With any of these techniques, extensive work on scrap will be required if possible....especially on end-grain where your sealing and masking strategy will be put to the toughest of tests.

[Stolysmaster]

I think that by bleaching the entire top you are then able to mask off the top, spray lacquer to seal the binding edge (or shellac it) to give yourself a greater safety margin before grain filling and staining the top. This stage should also serve as a fill for that part of the body.

Tru-Oil does penetrate wood a fair degree, especially on end-grain where it is drunk like a Heineken rider after an 80s Metallica gig. That oil will happily migrate under whatever sealing you have done on the faux binding and potentially discolour it from underneath.

So, based on what you have said I think it would be best to bleach the entire body, mask off the top and back, seal the faux binding edge with a single coat of shellac or lacquer, grain fill and sand the rest of the body -top and back, mask the faux binding area and stain the rest of the body, THEN SHELLAC OR LACQUER THE ENTIRE BODY TO PREVENT THE TRU-OIL FROM PENETRATING UNDER THE PREVIOUSLY SHALLECED FAUX BINDING AREA, THEN apply Tru-Oil to the entire thing. Does that sound right?

And, what is better to put under the Tru-Oil as a sealer; Shellac or Nitro? I'm thinking shellac.

[Prostheta]

*confused*

I must have presented too much information at once. I was merely presenting ideas on how to tackle individual issues rather than the whole thing. Tape masking might not be enough to prevent ingress from the penetrating finish/treatment products you listed. Bleach and stain will creep under tape, oil will penetrate through the wood underneath, etc. Shellacing or masking with lacquer is a good barrier approach however it could be a fight. In my mind anyway.

I believe Chris Verhoeven will have excellent input on this if nobody else chimes in beforehand.

[ScottR]

One does not typically use a sealer before applying Tru-Oil as it will stop the oil from penetrating......and that is one of the main reasons for using an oil finish.

SR

[Stolysmaster]

One does not typically use a sealer before applying Tru-Oil as it will stop the oil from penetrating......and that is one of the main reasons for using an oil finish.

SR

I was actually wondering about that, but Birchwood-Casey makes a "Tru-Oil Sealer" for their Tru-Oil, to be used before the Oil. One website about finishing guitars with Tru-Oil - http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/truoil.htm - recommends using the Sealer, then filling the grain, then using the Sealer again, all before using the actual Tru-Oil. So that has me confused.

[ScottR]

That's true......they do. Confuses me too. I wonder if it is an oil based sealer. I love the warmth and glow a penetrating oil finish gives to the wood. So I would not use a sealer with oil. You should do as Prostheta recommends and test to see if the oil will get behind your bleached binding area around the end grain and discolor it. If it does you may well need to seal before oiling. I'd also test a scrap piece with a sealer and oil and one with just oil and see what kind of visual difference you get.

SR