Sanwa Arcade Switch: Please Explain

[verhoevenc]

So I keep seeing these cool builds with these arcade switches and I want to join in on the fun! However, there appear to be a number of different models with different lug numbers, etc. I've noticed the three builds on he that have used them used the 2-lug type. I'm guessing there's a reason?

Most importantly, I was hoping at folks that understand them or have used them could draw up some schematics for the different functions these can perform. That way there's a sanwa switch Reference moving forward.

Ideas (not sure all are possible):

1- momentary kill switch

2- on/off switch

3- perform a coil tap on/off

Chris

[Galaga_Mike]

I used one of these on a recent build. The biggest challenge was depth, make sure it fits in the body. They are momentary switches, so they only close the contacts when the button is pressed, which doesn't make them useful for any real on/off or coil tap uses, but they are great for kill switches.

For "press the button to kill the signal", just do

OutputJackHotLead -> Switch (C&NO Contacts) -> Ground

I prefer to wire it in series with a toggle switch so that you toggle the switch to enable the kill button then you "press the button to make noise (let go and the signal dies)", just do

OutputJackHotLead -> ToggleSwitch -> Switch (C&NC Contacts) -> Ground

I like that second configuration because it's much easier for me to press a button on a beat than to release a button on a beat, and you can do some cool effects.

Hope that helps.

[verhoevenc]

It appears they make one that screws on a plastic holder from the inside. Appears it would have more space for the top because of this.

Also, found a site tha allows you to order singles (mix and match colors, sizes, etc.) for CHEAPER than everyone on eBay?! http://www.arcadespareparts.com/arcade_parts/sanwa_parts/sanwa_button_obsf_30_db/12149.html#

Chris

[verhoevenc]

In response to your post, I'm not sure how adding a switch in there takes it from a disconnect on the up versus the down? Any chance you want to draw these out in images?

Also, another cool idea for momentary switches would be to use it as a ground lift to musically introduce hum like the tueffel tesla.

Lastly, have you found that these switches, not made for audio, have a detrimental effect on tone? Or is their impact negligible?

Chris

[verhoevenc]

Someone that's good with electronics take a peek at the pictures for this one. This makes me believe that they DO make sanwa style switches that are true on/off? 3 terminals and look at the diagram on the side of the housing!

Chris

[Galaga_Mike]

There are two switch properties that aren't necessarily related to each other.

The contacts:

A SPST switch has two terminals and just connects those terminals when activated.

A DPDT switch has three terminals and connects the C terminal to either the NO or NC terminal when activated.

The actuator:

Momentary - Only activated when pushed, deactivates when you let go

Maintained - Activated when you push it, stays activated until you push it again.

The arcade button I used was DPDT (3 terminals) but Momentary (deactivates when you let go). I've never seen a maintained arcade button, but maybe you're looking at one I'm not familiar with.

I'll try to either draw out or explain better the kill switch schematics when I get some time.

[Galaga_Mike]

Oh, and to answer your other question:

At least for a kill switch, the switch isn't carrying your guitar signal when it's not being used, so there is no tone impact.

If you use it for coil tapping or anything else, it will be carrying the guitar signal and may affect tone (but I seriously, seriously doubt it).

[ansil]

dpdt switch would have six terminals not three. you had a spdt switch. as far as an arcade style switch that was maintained i have never seen one. but that doesn't mean you couldn't fashion one out of another switch. keep in mind the big plunger everyone loves is not the switch just the actuator. buy a couple and learn to tear it down and see if you can use the actuator to fire a full size switch. if your unsure of what an actuator is http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/alteractuator/alteractuator.htm here is a diy one

[verhoevenc]

Oh! I just thought of a SICK use case for these switches! It's a build upon the noise generation idea from above. Where that lifts ground to make noise, my new idea uses an external source for the noise.

Essentially you create an effects loop in/out on the guitar. On the return you wire one of these. That way, when you hit the switch it lets through the effected version! Imagine how cool it would be to have the loop go through a guitar synth run off the guitar?! You could as hoc throw in a string pad double when you want it. Or play around dance music like with saw waves etc.

Chris

[ansil]

essentially removing the ground and utilizing the free antenna effect of the pickups I assume its what you are speaking of. Good one

[verhoevenc]

Here's a graphical representation of what I was talking about in my last post. I say graphical representation cause I didn't feel like drawing up a true schematic with all the grounds, paths, etc.

There are essentially two paths that both work at the same time:

1- signal from pickups, through controls, output

2- signal from pickup, through effects loop send/return, through loop controls, output

The really interesting thing is the way the loop works! The switch, sanwa arcade switch, and volume pots (loop one and normal controls one) allow for the following:

1- standard guitar tones alone (loop volume off or no cables going from loop jacks)

2- affected guitar tone only (standard volume off, loop volume on, loop switch to normal)

3- sporadic effected tones where you can tap the arcade button to let through noises coming from the loop (loop going to effects and returning, loop switch sending return signal to sanwa momentary button)

4- sporadic noises where you can tap the arcade button to let through NOISES (noise generator sent to loop's return, no need for a send. The noise could be anything from your computer, the output of a synth you have on the guitar, etc. loop switch to normal to play along to a backing track, or to the sanwa switch to allow you to tap in crazy tones when needed)

Chris

[ansil]

ah so noise generator in loop k got ya cool let us know how it works. i have an on board oscilator on a push pull that has like seven octaves. sure makes dive bombs fun

[verhoevenc]

My order arrived today and I TOTALLY get what Lenny was saying about how to wire it as a kill switch now that I have one in my hands. Don't know how I didn't see it... but literally just connect the two lugs of this button to the two lugs on your output jack. That way, when the button is pressed, it connects the two lugs, and routes EVERYTHING to ground. Durr...

I will say though, I'm not sure what I'll do with the "person" button I ordered as it's VERY tall. But I'm glad I ordered it! I saw a couple buttons with 3 lugs instead of two and was HOPING they were some form of SPDT... they're not. They're still a momentary switch. Just this time it's a momentary REROUTE instead of connect. So the signal goes from the comm. lug to lug A until the button is pressed. For the duration of the press, the signal goes from the comm. lug to lug B instead. Not sure what this does to help me yet, but I'm sure I'll find something fun

Oh... there will be fun

Chris

[curtisa]

I saw a couple buttons with 3 lugs instead of two and was HOPING they were some form of SPDT... they're not. They're still a momentary switch. Just this time it's a momentary REROUTE instead of connect. So the signal goes from the comm. lug to lug A until the button is pressed. For the duration of the press, the signal goes from the comm. lug to lug B instead.

That is exactly what SPDT is. SPDT = Single Pole, Double Throw.

Single Pole - the switch has one switching mechanism inside.

Double Throw - the switch has two states it can toggle between.

[verhoevenc]

I change my answer to a PERMANENT holding SPDT lol

Chris