Prostheta Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Yes, I have used 2k primer over Maple and grain-filled Mahogany plus straight 2k clear over Maple, Wengé and Bubinga with no issues. It was however the rattlecan stuff with the hardener in a seperate compartment if that makes any difference. I hope you can identify the issue here Luis. It's quite a big one if you are having reactions like you describe. Nothing worse than the final hurdle sending an entire build west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I'll have to completely dissagree that you cannot use Auto 2k primer on wood. I used it for years. In fact, I was sent a link on the weekend to a video of to two of my guitars playing side by side on stage in Melbourne. Bothy are old builds, both I used auto 2k primer on. No goo, paint still holding up, so you must be doing something seriously wrong. The only reason I stopped using Auto 2k primer is because of sinkback. Even though I had grainfilled thet things to death, over a period of time I was still getting sinkback. Not in the time the instrument was here, but several months aftrer the customers had taken delivery. So I now approach grain filling and sealing differently (west systems epoxy is doing the job at the moment) then just use an automotive clear over the top as a primer, then can add color or whatever after that. No sinkback. You misread or misunderstood what i said. I never said i couldnt use it on wood, I have used it on wood for years also... I said i couldnt use it on top of sealer. Go back and read why that conversation started... It was because when i wet sanded it, water got in the holes and routes, and lifted up/ split. And then it was suggested that i seal it first. Which then said, you cant spray lacquer automotive primer on top of SEALER. NEVER said i couldnt put it on wood... that is exactly what i did... So no, i am not "doing something seriously wrong" I know my paints and auto finishes very very well... Again, It is NOT a problem directly onto wood. I said it CANT be sprayed on top of a sealer or any other wood finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Oh man, you're right. I lose track of what I read at the best of times especially when it competes with the other voices in my head. If I recall, don't some people wax seal screwholes, etc. to prevent water ingress during this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Oh man, you're right. I lose track of what I read at the best of times especially when it competes with the other voices in my head. If I recall, don't some people wax seal screwholes, etc. to prevent water ingress during this work? I have heard of some people doing this as well. But i think that would only be doable if you were not going to spray any more coats, because that wax would contaminate the next coats. Would work fine if you were only wet sanding the final coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 True, however I've never needed to wetsand anything other than the final coat. I've had the same swelling around screwhole problems before and to a degree around rear ferrules. Hell, it's been so long since I've done a paint finish that I think I didn't have any grey hairs then. Yeeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Ok, I must have miss read. I skim read the whole thread quickly. My bad. I've never had this problem as I drill all mounting holes etc after paint, in exception if tuner holes, which I have to run a drill bit through hand held in some vice grips after paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 True, however I've never needed to wetsand anything other than the final coat. I've had the same swelling around screwhole problems before and to a degree around rear ferrules. Hell, it's been so long since I've done a paint finish that I think I didn't have any grey hairs then. Yeeps. Usually auto paint finishes come out much better if you wet sand between coats. For some reason, auto basecoat gets a little more orange peel than other finishes. So you usually have to wet sand between that and the clear coat. Or else that would work perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Ah, I see what you mean. I just scuff and let the clear sort it out. Maybe if I had cleaner working areas when I was painting I would use wet stuff of some kind. I fear contamination in my naïvety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I wish i could just dry sand them. But it clogs the sandpaper in 1 swipe. Sprayed some more sealer coats on the spalty. Somehow still getting crazy sand throughs even with 6 total coats. havnt had this much trouble with finish in years, since i first started. Looks like it will have to have a black burst either way, since i got sand throughs on the top edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I bet your spalt is drinking the sealer like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 You would think so, but it doesnt really look like it. The edges were just a little raised somehow. Veneer ends up being kinda tricky like that. Honestly, i am not even sure if this is spalt. I have just been calling it that because thats what it looks like to me. It is called Etimoe. It doesnt have the characteristics of spalt, but the looks. Quite interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Odd question for you... Your work quality is obviously top notch, why do you use veneers instead of actual tops? Is it because they are "prototypes" or simply a preference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 What's wrong with veneer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 What's wrong with veneer? besides this : You would think so, but it doesnt really look like it. The edges were just a little raised somehow. Veneer ends up being kinda tricky like that. Honestly, i am not even sure if this is spalt. I have just been calling it that because thats what it looks like to me. It is called Etimoe. It doesnt have the characteristics of spalt, but the looks. Quite interesting. Veneers are a cheaper substitute for the real thing typically. Not many "high end" guitars out there with veneers. If its for workability, or some specific reason, I would understand it, but he seems to be building at a level that would be encumbent for an "expensive" top wood. Nothing "wrong" with it by any means, just a curiousity of mine is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I didnt sand through the veneer, i sanded through the finish around the edges of the veneer. I use veneer because its easier to find a good looking piece, compared to finding drop tops. There is so much more good looking veneer out there compared to thicker tops. I would love to only use drop tops. but its just not easy to find them wide enough and with good figure in thicker pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 What's wrong with veneer? besides this : >You would think so, but it doesnt really look like it. The edges were just a little raised somehow. Veneer ends up being kinda tricky like that. Honestly, i am not even sure if this is spalt. I have just been calling it that because thats what it looks like to me. It is called Etimoe. It doesnt have the characteristics of spalt, but the looks. Quite interesting. Veneers are a cheaper substitute for the real thing typically. Not many "high end" guitars out there with veneers. If its for workability, or some specific reason, I would understand it, but he seems to be building at a level that would be encumbent for an "expensive" top wood. Nothing "wrong" with it by any means, just a curiousity of mine is all. And there is your other answer... "expensive". I am not going to go all out on an expensive piece of wood, only for the guitar not to sell and just sit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 So i did some experimenting with a cool finish. Here is the test piece. I am digging it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 i didn't know alder was like that...i've never worked with, but really wanted to and just bought a plank for 3 guitars. I'll be extra careful. although i do like to wet sand the car primer... Dry sand? or keep your wet sanding to the minimum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 It was VERY minimum wet sanding. Its hard to dry sand basecoat. It clogs the paper and leaves marks in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 damn...what are the options??? the one i will build will have a wraparound bridge, so water will get there...maybe if i use clay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 How many stages did that finish take? It looks like a nice take on the camo idea. @eddiewarlock - Modelling clay sounds like a workable idea for blocking up holes whilst you wet sand. If it doesn't leave residues then I can't see why not. Alternatively you could drill these locations after finishing (Drak even routs his pickups after paint if I recall!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 It just took 2. Well, after the basecoat is on. Just spray the top color, then use the plastic to make the pattern. So much for that idea now though! Going to be a while before i can get this one sanded back. I can probably finish a whole nother guitar before i can get this sanded back. Cracked way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Ah crap. I saw you post this one earlier today. Still, it is perfectly salvageable. Just need to step back and grab a coffee or a beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 I never wet sand primer. Always dry sand. It helps to have an air gun by your side and every thirty seconds blow out the sand paper. Once it gets some chunks the air gun won't remove turf it and grab a new piece. Also check if the primer you're wet sanding is water proof, as a lot aren't. Why are you sanding basecoat? Unless you screw up and have to remove it (like your last posts shows) the basecoat usually never gets sanded. IF you do screw up the base coat and have to remove it, splash some thinner on it, let it soak for five ten seconds and wipe off with paper towel, then it'll only need a basic scuff sand not a clog up your paper hard work sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted July 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I never wet sand primer. Always dry sand. It helps to have an air gun by your side and every thirty seconds blow out the sand paper. Once it gets some chunks the air gun won't remove turf it and grab a new piece. Also check if the primer you're wet sanding is water proof, as a lot aren't. Why are you sanding basecoat? Unless you screw up and have to remove it (like your last posts shows) the basecoat usually never gets sanded. IF you do screw up the base coat and have to remove it, splash some thinner on it, let it soak for five ten seconds and wipe off with paper towel, then it'll only need a basic scuff sand not a clog up your paper hard work sand. I always have the air compresser with a blow gun right there to blow off the sandpaper. It is very common to sand basecoat. I know tons of people and paint shops that do. It doesnt always spray very smooth. You get a way better finish if you wet sand between coats. I know it is salvageable. But its goign to sit there for a very, very, very long time. If i ever decide to get to it. In my opinion, if something isnt done right the first time, it isnt worth re doing. I DESPISE having to re do things. Have 2 more to build anyway. this one can take up space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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