KEA 2014 Builds

[HuntinDoug]

Ok, so it's more circumstances causing you to cease... Not just being sick of striving for excellence without results. Right?

Look for a place that will allow you to continue. And, use the downtime to start building up the tools you need. Or, do repairs for a while... No finishing needed there. I can guarantee you one thing: If you quit for good, at some point you will look back and wish you had not.

[killemall8]

Ok, so it's more circumstances causing you to cease... Not just being sick of striving for excellence without results. Right?

I wouldnt quite say that. I am more using it as a reason to finally walk away. I am on edge right now with it as it is. I havnt had the joy for it in quite a few years.

I am sure i would regret it. But at what cost do i keep trying to work on this?

Last year i worked on guitars nearly every single day for the entire year. My total profit was 1800$ after spending 2850$. I know it isnt about the money, but i was basically working for free, just to keep making them. I put every bit of effort i can possibly muster into these guitars, and there just isnt much of a return.

[HuntinDoug]

Well, if you don't enjoy it anymore, then I can understand. Maybe some time away would be good... Get a fresh perspective. But, at least do this: Before you sell all your tools, take a good look at your work, and your progress at the art. You've got talent. Don't "bury it"... Use it. It's a gift.

I fully understand the money aspect. I was a part time builder until I lost my full time day job in Nov. 2011. I havent had a real paycheck since. At times I have rhetorically asked myself "why am I still doing this". If it wasnt for my wife believing in what I do, I guess I wouldn't be doing it. I just turned 49, and I finally LOVE what I do. It takes a lot to "make it" as a full time luthier. I'm still at the stage where everything I make goes right back into material & tools. Now I have a shop with all the bills that go along with it. But, I'm right on the edge of things finally breaking loose. I just picked up a customer today that wants to carry my guitars as their premier brand.

Sometimes it helps to analyze yourself, and what you are looking to achieve by building. For some guys it's money, others for the art, others do it for the fun. Some do it for their ego. Any way you do it, one thing is the same for everyone. Perfection is un-obtainable. For a long time the best I could do was just not good enough to satisfy me. Then I realized that striving to continually improve is the only way to do this without it driving me crazy. Now I strive for excellence. Frankly, sometimes I'm disappointed in myself. I've burned some really nice guitars. But, I refuse to let that stop me.

Whatever you decide to do between now and next year, I hope you do it without regret...

[westhemann]

I have the same issue.Never completely satisfied with my stuff.

[Technology4Musicians]

Same issue for me too. Finishing is very important. It's the first thing we think a customer will look at, 'cause probably is the first thing we look at when we are evaluating a guitar.

Unfortunately finishing is the last step of a build... No more chances to repair if something goes wrong.

It's true that there are €100 guitars at the shop that have a perfect finish but it's also true that they have thousands of build flaws. We are speaking about industrial products. They have tools, machineries and employees that make the same thing every day.

If you make two guitars, same model, same timbers, same finishes, they're surely different from each other. This is the main difference between a luthier and a factory.

My brother is a professional luthier: he builds violins and cellos. Classical liuthery is fairly different. Customers choose a violin for its sound quality and privilege this aspect against finishing. I've seen €20K violins with very raw finish but customers seem to ignore it.

You're a very talented luthier and it's with builds like yours that people, me too, look at this forum to approach to guitar liuthery.

Ciao,

Alberto

[ScottR]

Good stuff coming at you there K.

SR

[pan_kara]

well I'm a newbie so coming from me "I suck at finishing and its frustrating and I can't seem to even get it near-perfect ever" doesn't have much weight I guess.. I'm limited to working 95% of the time in my apartment, a spray rig is not an option so I try to brush on nitro or RPC and then somehow sand it flat (Psikot did manage to do that!), I'm experimenting with TruOil..

But I'm really a hobby builder, every guitar is trying something new, new woods, new shape, new bridge type, scale length, neck joint etc. For something like that working without a proper workshop, just for fun, it ok. I'm not trying to make any profit.

[killemall8]

Well, if you don't enjoy it anymore, then I can understand. Maybe some time away would be good... Get a fresh perspective. But, at least do this: Before you sell all your tools, take a good look at your work, and your progress at the art. You've got talent. Don't "bury it"... Use it. It's a gift.

I fully understand the money aspect. I was a part time builder until I lost my full time day job in Nov. 2011. I havent had a real paycheck since. At times I have rhetorically asked myself "why am I still doing this". If it wasnt for my wife believing in what I do, I guess I wouldn't be doing it. I just turned 49, and I finally LOVE what I do. It takes a lot to "make it" as a full time luthier. I'm still at the stage where everything I make goes right back into material & tools. Now I have a shop with all the bills that go along with it. But, I'm right on the edge of things finally breaking loose. I just picked up a customer today that wants to carry my guitars as their premier brand.

Sometimes it helps to analyze yourself, and what you are looking to achieve by building. For some guys it's money, others for the art, others do it for the fun. Some do it for their ego. Any way you do it, one thing is the same for everyone. Perfection is un-obtainable. For a long time the best I could do was just not good enough to satisfy me. Then I realized that striving to continually improve is the only way to do this without it driving me crazy. Now I strive for excellence. Frankly, sometimes I'm disappointed in myself. I've burned some really nice guitars. But, I refuse to let that stop me.

Whatever you decide to do between now and next year, I hope you do it without regret...

Thanks for all the replies.

In the past couple years, i changed my goals and intentions of building. It used to be become as successful as possible. I changed my mindset and perspective and decided to seek excellence instead, and improve every build. That is another reason i have a hard time with it, because it seems like every other build is not as good as some i have made, instead of improving every build.

I wont be selling any of my tools either way. Only 3 of the tools i use are mine. My bandsaw, planer and router. Everything else powertool related is my dads. All of that will stay in the shop.

Even though i dont want to, i will probably still have to finish up what i have left. I cant stand having left over stuff going to waste. Either that or sell the wood and other stuff i have on hand.

I think what has really pushed me over the edge is that i have had finish issues on 5 of my last 8 guitars, that about cut the value of those guitars in half. Once i have trouble with it initially, i can never get it to come out right.

Pankara,

I believe you have only made a few guitars, correct? That one you made with the piezo was nicer than about my 30th guitar i made. You learned correctly and did things right. I am a much slower learner.

I dont know what the future holds. I know in a month i will be wanting to build again. But as soon as i go to start one, i lose all motivation.

We will see where it goes.

I appreciate all the replies and concern.

[supplebanana]

Luis - it will be a sad day for all if you quit - you are one of a handful of builders I take inspiration from.

Why don't you use oil or wax finishes? I think your guitars would look just as good with them. Or sub-contract them.

[killemall8]

Supple,

When i first started, i did only oil finishes. They eventually sell, but it is usually a huge turn off to the buyers and market. I wish i could stick with them. I have looked into contracting out finishes. I would in a heartbeat if i could fit it in the budget.

[RestorationAD]

You're trying to hard. Take a break but don't quit. Give yourself some time to recharge and when you come back to it you will make a leap forward. I promise. It is like anything else. If you press too hard you make more mistakes. The little mistakes blind you of your actual progress. You are progressing. When is the last time you made a serious structural mistake? Now you are down to figuring out finishing and you will have it all. Good build technique, solid design, great finish is all that is left.

Let me tell you a story about "New Guitar Euphoria". You see the mistakes because you put them there and/or covered them up. Most every other person who looks at that guitar is not going to see them. They will be blinded by the incredible piece of work they are holding in their hands. I make mistakes on all my guitars. Sometimes they are tiny and I forgive myself and sometimes they are huge and I cut it up and start over. New models are the worst for me. The new multiscale 7 strings I am working on are still not ready for prime time. I will get them there it is just going to take trial and error. No amount of reading on the internet will help.

Make sure your break is not too long. I took a big break of about 10 years from building and I wish I hadn't. I really could have used the peace and quiet of the shop during those years. These days it is the only place that I relax.

BTW I still suck at finishing and have gone back to good old Behlens String Instrument Nitro. It takes forever to cure but it buffs out good enough. Still have swirl marks and little scratches but shiny enough no one but me sees them. Do not compare your finishes to the major manufacturers. Those finishes kill a guitars "voodoo" they drop 3/16" of polyester finish on a guitar with robots, sand it flat and buff the life out of it.

[RestorationAD]

Last bit and I will leave it. I burned out last year. I dialed everything back and was planning a long break. With the absence of pressure builds I felt relieved. I was supposed to have a long break but the step back and time to think really helped. I worked on some things new designs I am back at it and inspired as ever. And I still suck at finishing.

[killemall8]

Thanks man. That is probably what i really need to hear.

When it comes down to it, i really WANT to build. I just dont want to deal with the problems or the stress that come along with it. But i guess that is true with anything in life, right?

I will do my best to take a break and then start over. I still have a lot of ideas for builds i need to get done before i move anyway.

Thanks for all your concern and support, everybody. I may post things out of emotion sometimes, but it is a real struggle to decide whether or not to keep on building.

[pan_kara]

Pankara,

I believe you have only made a few guitars, correct? That one you made with the piezo was nicer than about my 30th guitar i made. You learned correctly and did things right. I am a much slower learner.

It was one of my first three. The woodwork is ok, considering it was my first try I'm very happy with it. The finish is crap. There's a bunch of runs, a few small sand-throughs and in the end the RPC started cracking all over the place. But it was for me so I can live with it.

BTW I suspect there might be a better market for oil-finished guitars nowadays, my impression is that people are more into non-gloss spectacular-top wood guitars.

Like others say, a break is probably what you need. Finish up what you have going, then take a break. Then build something different - a baritone, a piezo, a 7-string .. a bass? a multiscale?

Take it easy, you're not burning any bridges after all.

[killemall8]

Still man, you are lightyears ahead of where i was at my 3rd build. And i probably had a lot more tools than you do.

This picture makes it look way better than it is. In person, it has a million vertical scratches that i cant buff out.

[killemall8]

Ok, so after hours of re sanding and buffing, i got it to a presentable state. There are still a few little scratches, but looks better than before.

EMG 81 60 set

Hipshot Griplok tuners

[killemall8]

[killemall8]

[ScottR]

That looks lethal!

I cannot image that it will be in your possession very much longer.

SR

[killemall8]

Thanks Scott! I always appreciate the positivity you dish out.

[sdshirtman]

He is super positive isnt he?

If I haven't said so, nice build and congrats on your win.

[killemall8]

Indeed he is.

Thanks everybody who voted for me. I have entered many builds in the 8 years i have been a part of this forum and this is my second win. I almost felt bad knowing Rad and Demonx had awesome builds.

Started some new projects, despite everything said before.

[killemall8]

Fretboard radiusing.

This one is a 5 piece maple, walnut and paduak neck, wenge fretboard.

Also, this is my new headstock. I needed one with straight pull.

I almost got it right, but i forgot to take in account the width of the tuner post. So i have to move the holes to the left.

[sofison]

Man I really love the selection of woods that you choose.

[ScottR]

Good idea to drill the string holes in excess end of the tenon to see how the pull is going to end up. What kind of top are you going to wow us with on this one?

SR