Setup question

[killemall8]

Ok, so on a few of my builds have had this strange problem.

with a straight edge and zero relief, When strung up, it buzzes, even after fret leveling. But it doesnt seem like a fret leveling problem.

The nut height is perfect, and the action is even a little higher than i want. but when you fret pretty much anywhere, you can see that the string is hitting like 3 frets in front of it, then barley clears the rest. With a straight edge it is dead flat.

How is this even possible? i have ran into this a few times lately. If i put more relief into the neck then it just causes this same problem even more from the 7th down.

[curtisa]

You mention having the neck at zero relief. Do you adjust it to zero relief when under string tension as well? My guess is that the neck is too straight, and doesn't allow enough clearance for each string to vibrate without rattling against adjacent frets.

Other possibilities can be fret crowns too flat (sitar effect on each fret) or bridge saddles with flat spots/not enough downward angle behind the saddles (sitar effect at the bridge).

[killemall8]

It is no relief when strung up. I have put relief into it, and it plays worse.

Possibly the frets are too flat, but i havnt been able to find a crowning file that correctly fits these frets.

[curtisa]

More relief should allow more clearance under the frets when fretting a note. Assuming you don't adjust anyting else you should end up with higher action as the neck now curves a little more under string tension, and the chances of fret buzz should be reduced.

Does your neck have any twists or warps? Does your straightedge cover the full length of the fretted portion of the neck? Is your straightedge actually straight? Action too low?

FWIW I usually shoot for around 0.012" relief (capo at first fret, press string at neck/body join, measure string height at mid point between the two fretted nodes) and around 0.09" unfretted action at the 12th on the bass side. Provided the neck has no other quirks and issues I find those measurements give pretty good results. Sometimes I can get away with smaller clearances but the chances of buzz increase if I start playing a bit too exuberantly.

[curtisa]

Something you can try if you have a multimeter with a beeper function:

Take one multimeter probe and attach it to a buzzy string behind the nut. Play the string up the fretboard and touch the other multimeter probe to each higher fret as you play (might need an extra pair of hands to help). If the string actually buzzes on a fret it will complete a circuit between the string/fret/multimeter and you should get a beep.

[killemall8]

Nope, it isnt twisted at all. It seems that about around 2 out of 5 guitars end up like this. I dont know what else it could be.

[Tim37]

It doesnt help u much but i havr found playing with very thin shims on a bolt neck to change the angle can help. It doesnt take much of a shim either im talking thick paper at the top or bottom of the neck pocket.

Like i said it doesnt help you since all your guitars are set neck

[SwedishLuthier]

You might try fret leveling under string tension. Search for Rick Turner fret leaving or something like that. Or build/get a neck jig if you are really serious. I have a neck jig but I rather use the Turner method.

[guitar2005]

Check the fret's crown. You should have the crown as narrow as possible. I tried an experiement a while back where I had strung up a guitar with the frets levelled with little crown. There was a LOT of fret buzz. Then, I crowned the frets and polished them so that the tip of the fret was as narrow as possible for that fret size and it played beautifully.

Of course, a bit of neck relief helps too.

[killemall8]

Interesting. That may be most of the problem. I cant find a good crowning file actually fits the fretwire.

[KeithHowell]

I cant find a good crowning file actually fits the fretwire.

Use a small triangular file. Grind off the sharp edges.

Mask the fret board and do it old school. (Like before we had all these fancy tools dreamed up by Stew-Mac to empty your bank account )

[killemall8]

I cant find a good crowning file actually fits the fretwire.

Use a small triangular file. Grind off the sharp edges.

Mask the fret board and do it old school. (Like before we had all these fancy tools dreamed up by Stew-Mac to empty your bank account )

Well, i dont need another thing to learn and spend hours doing and possibly mess up. If that is the case, i am going to stop building right now. IT isnt worth it.

[guitar2005]

Building guitars is all about learning, mistakes, starting over and junking hours of work. If you're not ready for that, then yes, you might as well quit now.

I've redone a guitar three times, cut necks up, redone inlay work, fretboards, nuts etc... I've learned a lot from those mistakes.

[killemall8]

I have redone a single guitar around 5 times over a year. I am not afraid of doing it or learning. But when it is less productive and efficient, i see no purpose for it. I am not going to go out of my way to attempt to learn something that will take years to learn and probably destroy a guitar in the process.

[KeithHowell]

It is really not difficult and I find it more controllable than the concave burs.

My technique is:

Mask the fretboard

Use a felt tip pen and colour each fret along its top.

Use the triangular file on each side and round the fret until you have a thin black line on the highest point of each fret. (Few strokes along each side should do it)

Polish the frets using your favourite technique making sure you polish off the last of the felt tip ink

and Done!

[killemall8]

It sure seems like it would take a lot more than a few strokes to get them round. Even with the crowning files i had to press as hard as i could and do 10-20 swipes. I'll see if it works.

[DC Ross]

Stew Mac's dual-grit diamond crowning files work great. They're easy, really controllable, and work quickly.

[killemall8]

Man, i dont think i could swallow that huge price for them though.

[pwflyer]

Another possible solution would be to take the guitar into your local guitar shop and have them look at the issue you are having. Generally they don't mind and they can get you going in the right direction to fix the problem.

[sdshirtman]

Killem, Everyone has their own idea of ideal action. Do you have a way of accurately measuring the action at the 12th on the low and high E string? I'm wanting to get an idea of how low of action you're trying to get and where it is now. I shoot for string height of between .078 - .074 on the low at the 12th and between .060 - .063 on the high E. If I go much lower than .074/.060 then I start to compromise low action vs. some buzz. As for relief, I'm sure you probably already know this but you do want a touch relief to allow your strings to roll. That should take a bit of the buzz. I'm with Curtisa and set my relief around .009 - .012.

Also, are you using brand new strings? I always find brand spanking new strings a PITA to set up with. I like to play em for a little bit and let em sit on the guitar for a few days and settle in before starting to really dial in the setup.

And by the way, if you dont have a way of accurately measuring string height I would suggest picking up that string height gauge that LMI sells. Its less than $40 and worth its weight in gold.