curtisa Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 If you have any second hand stores or tool markets in your area you can occasionally find old clamps there for not much money. I recently picked up a pair of pipe clamps for $30 from a junk shop. The same units new are more like 3 times that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedfirefly Posted July 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yeah, that's a good idea, I have a few second hand stores not far away from home, it's worth a look at least, I seen they sell some power tools and stuff. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedfirefly Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Hello guys, i need some help, i dont know what i`m doing wrong. I`m preparing the 2 pieces of the body to join them. First i clamp a straight wood to use it as a guide, and use that 2cm router bit, doing many passes, each one a bit lower, until i can`t get any lower. Then i turn it over, clamp it again (now the router doesn`t touch the straight wood) and use that 3cm bit router to copy the previous level. And no matter what i do, i always finish with 2 different levels, not really a huge difference, but can`t get a perfect surface, i did 6 tries (I`m using the outside of the wood blocks, not side that is going to be glued togheter) one of the tries went almost perfect, but then went to the other block and again 2 levels... Any idea? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I'd say one of your bits has cutting edges that are not exactly the same diameter as the bearing. It is pretty easy to clean up from there with a shooting board. This is basically a fence set up square to a flat surface that has sandpaper fixed to it. Here are a couple of examples of a simple version I use: SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Easier still, and better to guarantee the blanks are jointed flat, is to clamp them face to face. Same as opening a book, except closing it. Clamp the two pieces with the jointing edges aligned up. Either run a plane over them skewed, or use a flat board with sandpaper on the face. That will flatten both faces and ensure that when the book is "closed" they produce a flat blank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedfirefly Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Thanks guys, I will try those systems today in some spare wood to see how they work A shame about the router bits, they are brand new, I thought they would work better... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedfirefly Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hello guys, I think I really suck at sanding, I did the shooting board, put some sandpaper and tried sanding them, first, each one separately, then both clamped together, tried many times, and no matter what I couldn't get a good surface, I'm in my cellphone now so I can't upload pictures, but later I will put some of them... Is there other way I could try? I was thinking clamp both pieces together, put them with the surface I need to prepare looking up, and then run the router from over it, the same way y prepared the front and back, I only would need a higher structure from which run the router... OK, I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself clearly, if not, again, I will put some pictures tonight to see if that could work. My plan b is going to the woodshop and ask them to prepare them for me, I been stuck at this stage too long, I want to keep advancing, maybe later with more experience i can sand them down the next one. Sorry for the wall of text.Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 If you run the router again, you'll have to start sanding again... I'd suggest to go to a carpenter, they can do it in a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Pictures will help in trying to diagnose your troubles.Prostheta's method posted on August 6 is the way to do it, but only as long as you have the two pieces 90% the way there before starting the sanding/flattening process. It may take a while to get the edges of two pieces flat enough, but it should be manageable - say 20-40 minutes of careful work. If you have to sand too much off to get the two pieces to meet perfectly it will take a long time to complete the process, and you'll run the risk of overworking the sanding and ending up with pieces that don't match up properly.Don't put too much pressure on the pieces as you sand them, otherwise you may end up with uneven faces. Moderate and even pressure should be sufficientIdeally your sanding/shooting board will be longer than the pieces you're trying to flatten.Any sand paper you apply to the shooting board should be secured so that it doesn't have any ripples or raised edges that could cause uneven sanding.If the board you are using to sand with is warped, or on a surface that can flex under the pressure of the sanding process, you will struggle to get a flat surface on your timber pieces.Marking the faces you are sanding with pencil lines and watching as the pencil gradually sand away can help in checking your progress as you go, and identify where you're either applying too much pressure or where you need to continue sanding. When the pencil lines have all sanded away equally you'll know that you've got the edges flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Curtisa said everything I was going to....and probably better.Do check the surface you have attached your sandpaper to for flatness, any irregularities there will be transfered to your boards. It does take patience too.....What grit paper are you using for this?SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 After sanding or planing, bring it to perfection by scraping the surfaces dead flat with a long metal ruler, but don't scrape right up to the long edges, leave a bee's dick width left unscraped either side, use sash clamps to put massive force to squish the two surfaces together. You will have a perfect joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedfirefly Posted August 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hello guys.Thanks for the answers, let`s see... here are some pictures.The board, as far as i can tell it`s not warped and it`s at 90 degrees, and it`s longer than the pieces i`m sanding.I tried both separatedly, and when that didn`t work i tried them clamped togheter.And there you can see one of the ends.I keep the sandpaper in place with masking tape, i used a system i found at Crimson guitars, first put the masking tape in the board, then put some glue on it and put another masking tape on top of it facing upside, then put the sandpaper on it, the one i tried is 40 grit.I think what Curtisa said may be the issue, i had put two lines of masking tape along the board but closer to the middle than to the edges so they don`t cover all the surface the sandpaper is touching, so i see the edges are lifted a bit... i though that the weight of the 2 blocks would be enough to keep it againt the board and that i would not affect the result... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Clamped together works better, as any skew that accidentally gets sanded into the face of one piece gets automatically transferred into the second. The result should still be a perfect match when the two are brought together.Looks like you may have found the issue. Another thing that may be happening is that the line of tape up the middle of the sandpaper will be making a tiny ridge along the length of the sandpaper. As you run the timber up and down the sandpaper there may be just enough side-to-side wobble to make the two timber pieces tilt either side of the ridge. Once that starts happening it tends to get worse the longer you sand. What may start out as a 0.1mm dip after the first 5 minutes of sanding turns into a 1mm dip after half an hour.Crimson Guitar's masking tape and super glue trick is a good tip. I've been using it a lot recently too.Keep at it. With 40 grit paper it shouldn't take too much effort to get those two pieces perfectly flat and square enough to glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hello guys.Thanks for the answers, let`s see... here are some pictures.The board, as far as i can tell it`s not warped and it`s at 90 degrees, and it`s longer than the pieces i`m sanding. I tried both separatedly, and when that didn`t work i tried them clamped togheter.And there you can see one of the ends.I keep the sandpaper in place with masking tape, i used a system i found at Crimson guitars, first put the masking tape in the board, then put some glue on it and put another masking tape on top of it facing upside, then put the sandpaper on it, the one i tried is 40 grit.I think what Curtisa said may be the issue, i had put two lines of masking tape along the board but closer to the middle than to the edges so they don`t cover all the surface the sandpaper is touching, so i see the edges are lifted a bit... i though that the weight of the 2 blocks would be enough to keep it againt the board and that i would not affect the result... Yep you are getting a roll off effect at the edge, really noticeable on the right slab making a convex surface, and that is due to wobble when you try to sand blocks standing on their edge. Try a sanding set up where the blocks lie flat and the sandpaper is held 90 degrees to flat. Remember you can work on one slab at a time, they don't need to be exactly the same size, if that works better for you, I always do one slab at a time. Also, if you route the edges carefully using a very straight guide, you should not have to sand at all, just a quick scrape being careful not to round over the edges and off you go. It's worth sticking at it, it is very satisfying to get a perfect joint, why not get some cheap wood and practice your technique first. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazygtr Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think that part of your problem is the sandpaper not being completely flat and lifting on the edges, thus creating that curve at the edge of the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedfirefly Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Hey guys.Wanted to bring you a quick update before leaving for work.Did some practice in spare wood with the router, and after that i been able to get a better finish on the blanks, then i put 150 grit sandpaper at 90 degrees and did a very light sanding, i`m a bit afraid of oversanding and messing up. The surface is not 100% smooth, but looks a lot better than before, here you can see both boards togheter.Sorry, the pic is a bit dark... anyway, the union on the other side looks better also.Im not sure if do a bit more sanding to try to improve it a bit more or just clamp them togheter the way they are now. Cheers!!!Thanks for all the tips!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Draw your pencil lines across the surfaces that you are sanding and then sand lthem lightly a few more strokes. If your lines are being sanded away evenly, you are done. If some of them are sanded and others are not keep at it.Like Muzz said good strong clamping pressure will hide some imperfections, but perfectly invisible glue lines need very flat mating surfaces. Sharp edges are a good sign that your have done a good job.SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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