a2k Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 On January 22, 2016 at 5:06 AM, ScottR said: Truer words were never spoken. Not necessarily. Asymmetrical can be really comfortable when done right. Gets the old juices flowing when it all starts to come together doesn't it? SR Just gotta make sure it's "good asymmetric" and not "bad asymmetric". The juices are flowing for sure! No Japanese class this week so I hope to get three afternoons in at the shop instead of my usual 1 or 2 (or zero). Here's an ambitious list of what I'd like to get done: clean up neck add curve to arm comfort cut carve 'heal' of neck and body wings radius fretboard inlay work (I've got some overly ambitious ideas here - we'll see...) side dots pickup cavity template pre-drill holes for ground and pickup wires (I didn't do those under the top) thin down neck at body section electronics holes test urushi logo idea We'll see - that's still a pretty big list and details are starting to matter a lot more. I've gotta resist the urge to rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Well, you're quantifying and vocalising your working steps which is very positive and organised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 18 hours ago, Prostheta said: Well, you're quantifying and vocalising your working steps which is very positive and organised. I've learned that if I don't walk in with a clear plan I don't get done what I planned (you know, by definition). Plus I've got so much to learn and figure out that I do my best to walk into the shop with designs, decisions, measurements, etc all printed out. Otherwise I could easily spend two hours just standing there trying to figure out what I'm doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Agreed. I get that exact same issue with me only having temporary workspace and very very limited time to do what I need to. Properly allocating my resources is the only way to get anything done! I was hoping to get the pantograph inlaying machine finished sooner rather than later, however time simply isn't forthcoming right now. Still, at least I should be able to get some hold down clamps fabricated in time for this or next week's publication date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Another fun week last week. I think I got the neck pretty dialed now. The asymmetry is gone and the bumps I could feel but not see have been erased. No pics for that. I also spent some time adjusting the forearm cut, and then carved back the 'waste' to expose some mahogany. I felt the straight 1/4" round-over was just too mechanical and wanted to bring a little more organic feel to the shape. Here's the result: Next up, I began the process of radiusing the fretboard. Took it down some, but not all the way because I had some inlay work to do. Now, the next fun thing - I spent some time cutting out a little 13 piece 12th fret inlay I wanted. I think it turned out really well. I made myself a little board to cut against with some MDF and then spent an afternoon working away with my little scroll saw. If I got impatient and tried to go too fast, saw blades snapped. This happened a lot. But I finished. Here's the fit check. And seeing how it looks... Up next, I had to get the inlay in. I did the chalk outline. Not perfect, but good enough to work with. I tried using the drill press with a small flat tipped bit at a fixed depth to carve it out, but it kept grabbing, so I ended up using a dremmel by hand and just slowly removed the wood. Not perfect, but at least I didn't go too deep. Then I glued the pieces in and filled the gaps. I may have been overly liberal in with the CA/sawdust mixture. Now I'm just sanding it back. I want to make sure I don't lose my fret slots, though - they aren't deep enough, so I'm going to re-cut those before I finish sanding. Here's where it stands right now: Most of the CA glue and sawdust is on top of the fret board, not filling the slots, so I think it will end up looking much more clean than it does right now. I'm pretty excited by how things are looking right now! Edited February 2, 2016 by a2k typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Great to see more progress! Careful with the pearl next to the fret slots; the frets will happily chip your pearl on the way in unless you add in a small bevel with the corner of a file on the fret slots. There are other ways around this, however I am not an expert on inlaying as such; I am simply aware that this can be an issue. Grab yourself some leather or cork to line your vise jaws, even if temporarily! The last thing you want is the vise screwing up your flat glueing surfaces. The neck taper faces are not parallel, so if the vise doesn't rack a bit (jaws going out of parallel to conform to the workpiece) then the jaws will be bearing onto a small area, generally the edges at the back. This might compress or mark up your surfaces. Nice to see that you're being as adventurous as you can be with various techniques and ideas. A real primer in instrument making eh? Those benches look pristine....are they new, or have the previous users not had the heart to use them properly, and treat them more like furniture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Nice koi. I'm a fairly patient guy, but I always lose mine when inlaying..... SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 14 hours ago, Prostheta said: Great to see more progress! Careful with the pearl next to the fret slots; the frets will happily chip your pearl on the way in unless you add in a small bevel with the corner of a file on the fret slots. There are other ways around this, however I am not an expert on inlaying as such; I am simply aware that this can be an issue. Grab yourself some leather or cork to line your vise jaws, even if temporarily! The last thing you want is the vise screwing up your flat glueing surfaces. The neck taper faces are not parallel, so if the vise doesn't rack a bit (jaws going out of parallel to conform to the workpiece) then the jaws will be bearing onto a small area, generally the edges at the back. This might compress or mark up your surfaces. Nice to see that you're being as adventurous as you can be with various techniques and ideas. A real primer in instrument making eh? Those benches look pristine....are they new, or have the previous users not had the heart to use them properly, and treat them more like furniture? Thanks for the tips - I hadn't thought about the risk of MOP chipping when the frets go in. I'll add a bevel to the slots. And I'll get my hands on leather or cork for the vise. Good tips - I'm actually a little worried about the joint seam between the neck and the wings - no light gets through, but the pieces don't fit together totally flat, so I can rock the wings forward or back. I'll be circling back with some questions/thoughts on the best way to fix this before the wings go on. The benches are pristine. It's a combo of them being treated like furniture (don't mess up the fancy benches!) and almost nobody using the shop. People come in occasionally to cut 2x4's down for random reasons, but in the 4 months I've been at it, I am the only person working on a multi-day project. When I started, I was expecting the shop would be packed full of skilled wood workers who I could quietly watch and learn from, but unfortunately that's not the case. At least I have you all! 7 hours ago, ScottR said: Nice koi. I'm a fairly patient guy, but I always lose mine when inlaying..... SR Glad I'm not alone! This really has been an exercise in Zen and 'letting go'. In the end I think it'll be worth it - the inlay will serve as a nice centerpiece to the bass and a sort of souvenir of my time in Japan. By the way, those of you who have been following along have probably figured out that I'm new to this and learning as I go. I appreciate all comments, thoughts, tips, etc. So if you look at a picture and think to yourself "I wonder why he isn't ___", let me know! My feelings will not be hurt no matter how basic the feedback is. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Like I said; I am no expert on shell inlaying or best practice when it comes to fretting around it. As far as I remember it, bevelling is a way to allay chipout at least on the surface where it is most problematic. I'd seek a second opinion on this to prevent anything you can't easily repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Got the koi cleaned up yesterday. Looks a lot better. It really sparkles in the light and almost seems like it's electric - really cool effect. I cut the fret slots and beveled the edges, but I'll so some reading on how to not ruin things when the frets go in. Here's a pic: I also put the side markers in. Glow in the dark! Here's a night shot: Now onto the trouble spot. I mentioned yesterday that I was worried about the fit between the neck and the wings - top wing, to be specific. It really needs to be tightened up a lot. Here's what I'm currently working with: Tips on how to clean this up? I can trim back a very little without really messing up the shape, but I don't know how to make sure the resulting cut is totally straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Where's the inconsistency coming from? I take it that the stringer is the bit that's not perfectly straight? I mean, to be fair you can adjust the outside imperceptibly (I'm sure you know this) however the stringer....hmmmm....a fine line. A sanding jig similar to a shooting board is probably the best idea. Looking at it, are the stringers slightly wider than the central laminates? You can probably adjust then with sanding, however at the very least they need to be done equally, and certainly balanced with respect to the central lams. Did you keep the scrap from the outside of the body wings to use as glueing cauls? That'll help dial in a bit more clamping pressure. I'd glue the problem wing separately from the other, so that you can use a flat caul on the opposite side to make clamping easier and tighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 On February 4, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Prostheta said: Where's the inconsistency coming from? I take it that the stringer is the bit that's not perfectly straight? I mean, to be fair you can adjust the outside imperceptibly (I'm sure you know this) however the stringer....hmmmm....a fine line. A sanding jig similar to a shooting board is probably the best idea. Looking at it, are the stringers slightly wider than the central laminates? You can probably adjust then with sanding, however at the very least they need to be done equally, and certainly balanced with respect to the central lams. Did you keep the scrap from the outside of the body wings to use as glueing cauls? That'll help dial in a bit more clamping pressure. I'd glue the problem wing separately from the other, so that you can use a flat caul on the opposite side to make clamping easier and tighter. I've got to get back in the shop and figure out where the inconsistency is coming from. I've got it in my head that the sides of the neck are straight and the body wing is where the problem lies. But I need to confirm this. If it's the neck, I could bring the side stringers in a little. They aren't wider, but I think as long as the pairs match it'd be okay. If it's the wing, maybe I can clamp it to a shooting board to plane it square (not sure if there is a shooting board in the shop but I'm assuming I can use any board that's long enough and has a straight edge). I did keep the scrapes from the outside of the wings. They are a little "loose" after routing the wings down to size, but I think still useful for getting even pressure when clamping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I did two things on Friday. First I finished bringing the neck down to the target thickness (it as a little thicker than the body and needed to come down to give the bridge enough vertical space). Specifically, I brought down the thin area next to the fretboard with a router. This was a tiny bit tricky because I'd already radiused the fretboard so I couldn't use it as a mounting surface. So instead I came up from the other side using one piece of MDF as a riser and another as my guide for my template bit. Simple enough. Here's a shot: Second, I put the frets in. I took extra care to make sure I had a good bevel on the inlay and I'm happy to report no cracking. I didn't use glue - the frets seem to be locked in well without. Here's an after shot: I did figure out how to order on Amazon.jp so I've got some more finishing options headed my way. The wipe-on varnish I've tried so far produces an okay result but just feels too plasticy for my taste so I ordered some oil options. In case anybody ever asks, the Japanese words for "oil finish" are "oeru fuinishyu", written 'オイルフィニッシュ' (it seems crazy, but sometimes if you say an English word with a Japanese accent you get lucky). This is a travel week for me so no progress until next week... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I think you've got it all in hand. You're clearly not the type to jump in feet first without looking. Loanwords are the same here a lot too. I used to have fun playing wordgames with verb types and grammatical structures, mostly using rude jokes as the basis. Much fun was had by all, or at least, me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Prostheta said: Loanwords are the same here a lot too. I used to have fun playing wordgames with verb types and grammatical structures, mostly using rude jokes as the basis. Much fun was had by all, or at least, me. The one that always gets me to giggle is broccoli - in Japanese, it's pronounced "buh-raw-ko-ri". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Even better - here the letter "s" is pronounced "ass". It was interesting when the TV advertisements blare out that Samsung have released a new Galaxy Ass. We also have a supermarket called "S-Market". That said, these things pale into insignificance in comparison to a Finn swearing in full flow. It's magical, concerning and requires asbestos pants if aimed in your direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Okay, now I've got myself worried that because I didn't glue the frets down, they are at risk of moving. They seem tight enough, though I'm sure a knock on the side could move them. Should I: 1) not worry about it because string tension will handle this 2) put a drop of CA glue on the sides to hold them in place 3) pull them out and then glue them back in Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Is there a real reason why you think the frets might need gluing? Are they gradually working their way out of the slots by themselves? I wouldn't glue in frets unless there was an underlying problem to begin with - frets springing out of slots, slots too wide for the fret wire, fretboard material too weak to hold them etc. There's every possibility that removing the frets to refit them again may result in the existing slots being widened to the point where you'll be forced to glue them in so that they'll stay put. If it ain't broke don't fix it...yet :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 13 minutes ago, curtisa said: Is there a real reason why you think the frets might need gluing? Are they gradually working their way out of the slots by themselves? I wouldn't glue in frets unless there was an underlying problem to begin with - frets springing out of slots, slots too wide for the fret wire, fretboard material too weak to hold them etc. There's every possibility that removing the frets to refit them again may result in the existing slots being widened to the point where you'll be forced to glue them in so that they'll stay put. If it ain't broke don't fix it...yet Thanks. The thing that's making me fret (sorry, couldn't resist myself) is that I was comparing my frets to another bass I have with a Warmoth neck. On the Warmoth neck, the frets are practically welded onto the fretboard. I'll keep an eye on them during sanding and such and if they seem to be moving, revisit this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Last week I headed up to the northern tip of Honshu, Japan's main island, to spend a few days in the Hakkoda Mountains. The little enclave at the base of the mountains, called Sukayu Onsen, is one of the (if not the) snowiest inhabited places on earth. The trees get covered by a very thick layer of frost which they call "snow monsters". The forest seems very open and spread out, but that's just because the snow pack is so deep, you are walking among the very tips of the tall trees. We had a very rare clear day during our trip - here's a photo I took of the monsters: And for reference, here's a picture of me taken on a "normal" day: I'm back in the relative warmth of Tokyo now and got a little time in the shop yesterday. I worked on the transition between the neck and body (if this was a bolt on, it'd be the "heal") but didn't get any photos. I'm trying to get things as close as I can before glueing the wings on because access is going to be a challenge after that. I also drilled the electronics holes. I spent far longer than I should have debating options for the control layout. I ended up going with a single ark that follows the lines of the bass, inspired by the 6-knob layout of Wyn basses. Here's a photo, and a test fit of the electronics cavity. I ended up having to make my cavity about 1/4" deeper to allow the threads for the pots to have clearance. I realized a big part of my slowness is that I do many things, and then end up having to go back and redo or adjust many times. I know it's better to not cut enough than it is to cut too much, but I need to work toward "measure twice, cut once" instead of "measure four times, cut twice". I'm sure that will come with experience. That's it for this week. Next week, I hope to: Drill bride holes Drill electronics cover holes Sand down the headstock plat Sand neck and body Test the finish options I got off amazon.jp Glue body wings (maybe...) Slow and steady! I'm trying hard not to get my head too deep into my "next" project yet. Edited February 18, 2016 by a2k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'm not entirely sure about whether "drilling bride holes" is a necessary part of this working process, but whatever helps. Sukayu Onsen looks awesome! What kind of tyres do cars need to wear up there? Friction or studded? Our little Micra has studded on right now, and given that it's hovering just below zero most of the time here, the roads are icy as hell. The Micra is a champ for sliding around corners and roundabouts. Not sure if it would manage too well there though; as soon as the snow starts to pack onto the road as ice it becomes hella bumpy and rough as anything. For one, I am sure I would not like to go to Lapland in the Micra anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 4 hours ago, Prostheta said: I'm not entirely sure about whether "drilling bride holes" is a necessary part of this working process, but whatever helps. Sukayu Onsen looks awesome! What kind of tyres do cars need to wear up there? Friction or studded? Our little Micra has studded on right now, and given that it's hovering just below zero most of the time here, the roads are icy as hell. The Micra is a champ for sliding around corners and roundabouts. Not sure if it would manage too well there though; as soon as the snow starts to pack onto the road as ice it becomes hella bumpy and rough as anything. For one, I am sure I would not like to go to Lapland in the Micra anyway.... Yeah, pre-drilling bridge holes might be a little excessive, but for some strange reason getting the bridge centered and square at the right spot is one of those little details that stresses me out way more than it should. Sukaya Onsen is awesome. The onsen (traditional Japanese hot spring) is in a super atmospheric old building. The water is acidic (they told us it has a ph of 4) so it stings slightly and you can't use soap before getting in. Super hot, too. Great way to end a day out playing in the cold. We rented a van with friction snow tires. It came with some burly chains too but we didn't need them. Despite getting over a meter of snow the first 36 hours we were there, traction wasn't ever a problem. It was super light fluffy "blower" snow. It's only about a 45 minute drive to the ocean and from top of the mountain range you can see the water (if it's the one clear day they get in a month). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Wow, sounds like quite a place to be. If I could manage to go to all of the places I'd like, that would likely go on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Great documentation in this thread. 16 hours ago, a2k said: I ended up having to make my cavity about 1/4" deeper to allow the threads for the pots to have clearance. I realized a big part of my slowness is that I do many things, and then end up having to go back and redo or adjust many times. I know it's better to not cut enough than it is to cut too much, but I need to work toward "measure twice, cut once" instead of "measure four times, cut twice". I'm sure that will come with experience. You've done very well for a beginner, and most of these lessons will reflect in all of your future projects. Nice work! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 17 hours ago, Prostheta said: I'm not entirely sure about whether "drilling bride holes" is a necessary part of this working process, but whatever helps. Ha! I just caught the "typo". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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