Muzz Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yep this is progressing beautifully, really enjoying watching it shape up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Life has really been getting in the way so far this week. There hasn't been a moment when I've had both the time & energy to make any progress (a rather bad support callout for work helped. Having only 2 hours of sleep in a night takes a few days to get over these days). Anyway, the postman has delivered shiny things... After scouring the Internet I found them at a very reasonable price. I hope they sound as nice as some of the reviews I've read Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 This is how it always starts. You find a pickup in a corner and build an instrument around it..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I managed to find time to play around with the ink dye. First I got the wood sanded down to 600 wet & dry, then applied a thin coat with a monofibre cloth. Then I gave one of the pieces a sand back And just to see what would happen, used some red on top... I'll give that another sand back & re-coat it blue. I'll see how the purple blends in, but I'll probably just use a single coat of blue. It could be an interesting effect for the more heavily grained ash back though . I'll also give them a few coats of lacquer, then set them up on the window sill part masked, to see how stable the pigments are and whether it fades at all. I also coated the top chamber with just the red & sanded back a bit to expose the grain. You'll barely be able to see this anyway. The ink isn't that bad to work with. I left it for 24 hours to dry out between any coats or sanding. It goes on quite thickly, despite being very liquid, meaning there is some room for sanding back. The top chamber above took me about an hour to sand back, going through grits 80, 120 & 320 - but then it's a little fiddly to get in there. Note to self: wear gloves next time when sanding back dye, it takes a lot of scrubbing off your hands! Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 The ink looks great. And having the red chamber peek through behind the blue is going to look really cool. Do you have any info on how the ink will hold its color over time? I've got nothing to go off of, but I'd be concerned about fading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 2 hours ago, a2k said: The ink looks great. And having the red chamber peek through behind the blue is going to look really cool. Do you have any info on how the ink will hold its color over time? I've got nothing to go off of, but I'd be concerned about fading. I've spoken at length with a chap who has used ink on several occasions before, and he assures me it does not fade - evens reds, which are more prone to it. I'll set up a fade test, but won't have a huge amount of time for it to sit there before I'll want to get some colour on the body. I'll certainly let everyone know how it goes, because if ink turns out to be suitable you have a ready made palette of colours to choose from - and it's quite cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 I've just found this page: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/250572-all-diamine-inks-mini-fade-test/ It looks like some of the inks are more prone to fading than others. I think I'll set up a proper test on the colours I've chosen to see how well they hold when on wood (bearing in mind that the above page was a 3-day, paper-based test). If it doesn't work out, then I'll just have to use conventional dyes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Interesting stuff. I have to admit that I'm prone to the same doubt on the use of inks purely because luthiery tends to cause that. A difficulty accepting anything beyond the established norm. I did a lot of reading up on inks myself and to be fair I think they are a good shot. Most of the considerations are in whether it's a different product to work (alcohol based dyes can be pushed around and blended easily on the piece) and economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Kuddos for experimenting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Last night we got the lacquer out. The main object was to coat the dyed inner chamber. When I rubbed it back I exposed some of the grain. Now that it's got a couple of coats of lacquer it looks almost like raw meat - the beating heart of the guitar . Purely by accident, but I like the effect. But I also sprayed my test piece, and am really pleased. I really hope that it stays this vibrant. It really shimmers in the light. I'll set this piece up as a fade test - I'll be a few weeks working on the body: carving, sanding, etc. That should give it plenty of time. Hopefully I'll be able to get it under a sunlight simulation lamp for a couple of weeks at least (it's a bit dark & gloomy here in the UK this time of year). I also routed the truss rod channel in the neck, scraped in a curve (separate fretboard -> top-mounted truss rod), and then rough cut it on the bandsaw. I didn't bother with photos of that . Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Raw meat - totally! It's gonna be an organic guitar. Make sure you put a "control" piece of the blue inked wood in a dark closet so you can effectively compare it against the piece that bakes under the sun lamp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 It also depends on what is degrading the inks. If it is UV then a lacquer containing UV (stabilisers? blockers?) will change the long-term result. If it is oxidation, I'm not sure whether lacquer will allay that. Nonetheless, this is a great real-world test and I'm liking the ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I intend to cover half of the sample with a cut down credit card, gaffa-taped in place, so it won't let any light through. That means the "control" area will undergo the same climatic conditions as the "test" area apart from the light exposure. The advantage of using a ready mixed ink is that I can quickly create a "brand new" sample to compare it to, to allow for any oxidation effects over the duration of the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 The pleasure of dying and clear coating figured maple for the first time has to be experienced to be believed. In other words......man I love doing that! SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 2 hours ago, ScottR said: The pleasure of dying We're not drinking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 We're not dying to be dyeing? SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 "Dying the wood" is grammatically and semantically incorrect. It is far better to write, "murdering the wood". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Yep, I've done that too. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi, Norris The build looks great ! Hi, to the other forum members also! I'm the guy who Norris refers to earlier in the thread. I've used fountain pen inks for some time on both veneered and solid wood finishes. Rather than hijack Norris's thread, I'll start a new thread on what I think are the pro's and con's of using it. Andy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Cool Andy. Looking forward to it and welcome! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi Andy! Nice seeing you onboard. A good amount of grist for the mill on inks as a dye alternative can only be a good thing. I know not all inks are going to be the same from manufacturer to manufacturer of course (especially on certain colours) but hey. I'm game for trying ink on my next top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hijacking threads is par for the course here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Welcome Andy - and hijack away I'm hoping to get the loan of a daylight simulation lamp soon, so I'll be able to start a controlled fade test on my sample. I'm contemplating using conductive paint to shield the lower chamber. Any recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 In terms of application or whether it is appropriate? It certainly works, but it's not my personal preference. I guess I enjoy applying copper foil for some strange psychological reason/dysfunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 2 hours ago, Prostheta said: In terms of application or whether it is appropriate? It certainly works, but it's not my personal preference. I guess I enjoy applying copper foil for some strange psychological reason/dysfunction. I was thinking of using paint so that I could cover the appropriate area of the top before gluing, then paint over the join line to connect them up. It's quite a big chamber and might prove awkward to connect up otherwise. I was thinking of doing the pick-up cable routes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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