Cthulhu

[Norris]

Kudos! I've not been on much for the last few days and to see this suddenly leap to "in" is amazing. Having done a couple of inlays on my build (although trivial compared to yours) I'm very impressed with your stamina, let alone the skill.

I tried a couple of trial routes on scrap when I did mine, and quickly realised that hand cut MOP is never going to exactly match the original artwork. I ended up placing mine over the original artwork as a guide then holding it together with masking tape before scanning the actual pieces onto the computer. My inlays were then small enough to print on large address labels that I stuck on as a routing pattern. I still ran into the same issues of scuffing up the paper, not being able to see the edges very well, etc.

It's going to look spectacular when it's done!

[komodo]

Did the stupidest thing.

I’ve been under insane work stress, and battling ulcer etc. In a rare free moment I figured I’d get the neck in the right spot with center lone laser aligned with body. Affixed straight boards with double stick and clamps for my tapered neck pocket router guides. Then, I’m all set with nitpicky crap, next day I can just route. Did that, and had the best neck pocket I’ve ever done. Perfect. Tried a “lap test” for geometry and feel and thought “wow! feels long and wide” Then snapped pics which I was looking at later.....hmmm, why do I have that piece of wood there, and......uh...... wait a sec.......

So, in my hyper focus, I had lined up the angled end of the fretboard with the angled pickup cavity. Sooooo worried about centerline and placement. Angled neck is at BACK of pup cavity, fret board is flush with cavity. LOL And, now the pocket is too wide.  After one or two bricks were shat, I went to the shop and shoved the neck to the back of the pup cavity, and luckily we are talking a veeery thin shim on the small side. So, glued that and just need some minor fitting. Neck will be bolted with 5-6 inserts and body will be black. Nothing to see here.

[ScottR]

Ooooops, but nice recovery.

I admit, I looked at the pics first and did not notice a thing wrong.

SR

[ADFinlayson]

pah 50% of my neck pockets have required a veneer, I'll never learn. Cthulhu is looking awesome 

[komodo]

Thanks all. All is right again.

@ADFinlayson thats why I was so mad. This one was perfect! 

I’ve been looking up to the peak of a mountain for this whole build. Only just now, with the neck in place and a lap test done - am I realizing what I’m holding. Starting to get VERY excited for this one as a player.

[Prostheta]

Oh man, that sucks balls but it's easily done. It just crossed my mind to mention (more as a curiosity about how this is done in other ways) that a lot of set neck instruments with pockets like this have the tenon slightly shorter than the pocket. I think some big manufacturers do this as well. I want to say PRS but I'd have to check. Aria Pro II did this a lot on set necks, and even secured the tenon in place with a couple of screws to the body in the neck pickup cavity.

What happens is that the neck is inserted at the wider back end taper of the mortise where it fits easier, then pushed into place from the back of the pickup cavity with a quick clamp set up as a spreader. This allows for a slightly tighter fit through natural clamping pressure, but most importantly it reduces glue evacuation from the mortise which happens when pushing a tenon in from the top. All the glue ends up on the base and the sides of the tenon stay pretty much dry. Another side effect of water based glues is the expansion of the surface of the mortise when glue is applied, making insertion more difficult than dry. Once the water migrates out from the joint, it can leave a dry and gappy joint. Always worth bearing in mind for any sort of joinery that has significant movement in place to fit mating parts.

I fully understand that this doesn't apply here, however it crossed my mind. Like many things do all day  Sorry for the digression. Stop messing up your neck pockets! haha

[Andyjr1515]

The more I look at this build the more I am impressed. 

Particularly now that the body and neck can be seen together, I'm starting to notice stuff that hadn't really registered before.  One is the shape and positions of the two horns and their respective cutaways - the top horn is right in the sweet zone for perfect on-the-strap balance, but just look at that upper fret access!!

Notice that I got through a whole paragraph without mentioning the inlay again... which s'alright … s'pose  

  

[Prostheta]

Which inlay?

[komodo]

4 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

but just look at that upper fret access!!

When I had the neck pocket routed incorrectly, and then set it in my lap to feel its geometry for the first time, I thought "wow the neck feels wide, the first fret is way out there, and damn I can reach the 24th fret SOOOO easy!"

Then I realized I'd F'd it up, which was an easy fix. Now, when you set it in the lap, it's UH-MAZING. The neck does not feel that wide (strange how the length changed that), the whole thing just feels like one unit. The upper access is still there, and is exactly just enough to comfortably play the 24th.

I'll remind everyone over and over that this was a Tosin Abasi / Ibanez design, interpreted by Vikk as a double-cut for Tosin Abasi. I'd LOVE to take credit for it, it's really nice.

I'm excited about the finish, I blather on so much I'm not sure if I've shared it or not. Ash doesn't have a lot of tannin, so I'll be doing a couple washes of quebracho bark tea. Then hit it with a rust solution (vinegar and steel wool) that will ebonize it as it reacts with the tannins. Then a simple hardwax oil buffed finish. EASY.

[ScottR]

13 hours ago, komodo said:

Only just now, with the neck in place and a lap test done - am I realizing what I’m holding. Starting to get VERY excited for this one as a player.

7 hours ago, Prostheta said:

What happens is that the neck is inserted at the wider back end taper of the mortise where it fits easier, then pushed into place from the back of the pickup cavity

I do this most every time. It started as just the fact that my route was a hair wide, then I noticed what happens to the glue and decided to "allow" my route to be a hair wide every time.

Damn, that's sexy, Jeff.

SR

[Prostheta]

If you have opportunity, use actual iron instead of steel wool. Even though the acetic acid reacts with the iron content for the most part, it does grab a lot of junk from the steel wool whilst it's at it. The chemical you're wanting to end up with is iron(III) acetate. Cheap steel wool still has a lot of oil and other contaminants in the metal in addition to it not being a pure source of iron. If you absolutely have to use that then clean the steel wool with acetone and filter your end product well. The end colour result is a lot more impressive black than the off-blacks that contaminated solutions result in. I think the problem is finding a good piece of iron to work with though. Nails are the popular choice, however when you need iron nails, they're just not around!

 

Just now, ScottR said:

I do this most every time. It started as just the fact that my route was a hair wide, then I noticed what happens to the glue and decided to "allow" my route to be a hair wide every time.

Did you notice the glue pooling at the bottom of the pocket and pissing out over the heel? I've never had this happen. 

[ScottR]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:54 AM, Prostheta said:

Did you notice the glue pooling at the bottom of the pocket and pissing out over the heel? I've never had this happen. 

If I dick around a lot between spreading glue and laying in the neck, yeah. Otherwise no more than typical squeeze out.

SR

[komodo]

Steel wool was cleaned, just detergent though, and was planning on at least coffee filters. I’ve done cabinets before and they are an impressive ebony color, but not jet black. I’ll do some tests with this tea and see just how black it gets. The Shou sugi ban was rich black, but burned way to easy up into the pores. Worst case I’ll shoot it black.  Probably cans of spray paint. 

[Prostheta]

Not all steel wool is the same, so ultimately if what you have works then it works. A lot of what I see is likely the usual "wire sheared Chinesium" made from tears and sawdust, along with that usual "Chinese import" grease smell. I've had good results with (expensive) Liberon wool, but again, it's not pure iron. It'd be interesting to try comparing if I get chance.

Shou Sugi Ban is interesting, however yeah, it can do that way too easily. Following it up with media blasting or a brush sander would be good to see. Not on this though! Go with what works.

[komodo]

Re: Shou sugi ban - I'll see if I can find my test pieces. It was all excellent until I noticed that some areas where I had already been were still smoldering. Mostly the edges where the insides of the pores were burning. There were huge chunks just missing all of the sudden.

[Prostheta]

I think that the original technique was limited to specific woods, as the pitch/resin content (if I recall) is important in the external preservation along with final oil treatment. Beyond that it just becomes scorching wood. I've seen a lot of people call "burning wood" Shou Sugi Ban, meanwhile Japanese artisans intimate with what the process is shake their heads

Still, it's the visual effect from a guitar maker's perspective. It doesn't need to sit outside exposed to the elements for 100yrs!

[ScottR]

Hell!

I was browsing and just noticed you started this thread back in 2015! I see that I did notice that when you first brought it back to life and started cutting wood (and pearl) back in February, (currently known as the last of the good old days). When I think of all the times I commented on @Norris willingness to achieve perfection no matter how long it took and then realize his thread is shorter than yours by two years!

Congrats for keeping the dream alive for sooooo long!

SR

[Prostheta]

I know, right?! This was started back when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were all the rage. Fresh Prince and all that. Pre Y2K. 

[komodo]

Yeah, I had conceived a version way back. Totally different body design (which later became a bass), but the octopus / cthulhu inlay was always there. I've had mockups printed out and stapled to my shop wall for years. Whenever I spoke of it, I'd say that the inlay would "probably take me all winter". It was far less dramatic. 

[MiloszM]

On 5/25/2020 at 5:19 PM, ScottR said:

On 5/24/2020 at 11:04 PM, komodo said:

And out of chaos.....magnificence.

level of pacience/ design/artwork / extreme handcraft skills  =  100%

This is too much I bow down

[komodo]

Inserts inserted, used flat bottom tap. Joint will be strong AF. Coco neck, rough cut.

[mistermikev]

nice to see the details on your tap... have often thought of trying this but have not for a number of reasons but it's one of those things I feel that I should try at some point so... thank you for sharing.  guitar is really beautiful... coming along great.

[komodo]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

nice to see the details on your tap.

Inserts are EZ-Lok, 3/8-16 outside threads, with 10-24 inside. I used the carbon steel ones made for metal working, they are more robust. There is an epoxy on the outside of them, but I removed that as it doesn't work with wood, and I'd like these to me reversible, or at least not permanent.

Tap is 3/8-16 flat bottom, and I found a 5/16" bit worked best before tapping.

[mistermikev]

16 hours ago, komodo said:

Inserts are EZ-Lok, 3/8-16 outside threads, with 10-24 inside. I used the carbon steel ones made for metal working, they are more robust. There is an epoxy on the outside of them, but I removed that as it doesn't work with wood, and I'd like these to me reversible, or at least not permanent.

Tap is 3/8-16 flat bottom, and I found a 5/16" bit worked best before tapping.

I guess the complicated part is... what size.  too big and you have issues with splitting out the side of the neck or other splits.  too small and they won't be as strong as normal wood screws.  3/8 is probably too big of a hole for standard strat/tele placement huh?

[komodo]

4 hours ago, mistermikev said:

what size

I think these are perfect for any neck really. I used six because of the extra string tension, and I've got a lot of heel space up into the pup cavity. The 10-24 bolts are pretty similar to regular neck screws and probably a finer pitch. I'd use 4 for a strat.

http://www.philtone.com/inserts.html

I don't agree with his 23/64" pilot hole. I drilled and tapped 4 holes sizes, progressively smaller to find the right size. 5/16 worked great in Coco with maximum thread contact.