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The Helix build (video series)


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Please tell me that you ease the neck or the pocket before glueup John! It's a pet peeve of mine (I know this) however those super tight "pick the body up by the neck" joints are a fair way from ideal. That is, unless the neck can be fitted into the tapered pocket from behind in the pickup rout, then pushed forward into the pocket. Inserting top down in a tight rout pushes down too much glue, starving the sides and creating a thick film underneath that can't be squeezed out. I'm sure you know this, however anybody else that sees the video might interpret the working process differently.

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I am very impressed with the way the double sided tape just vanishes. It takes a bit more work to get mine off.

I did not see the figure in that limba coming either. That popped out nicely when you wet it. This is going to be a gorgeous guitar and has been quite entertaining and informative to watch you build it.

Really smooth wardrobe changes too, quite impressive.:D

SR

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1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

Please tell me that you ease the neck or the pocket before glueup John! It's a pet peeve of mine (I know this) however those super tight "pick the body up by the neck" joints are a fair way from ideal. That is, unless the neck can be fitted into the tapered pocket from behind in the pickup rout, then pushed forward into the pocket. Inserting top down in a tight rout pushes down too much glue, starving the sides and creating a thick film underneath that can't be squeezed out. I'm sure you know this, however anybody else that sees the video might interpret the working process differently.

I read you. It was purely for show. Having cut pockets in the past that were a few thousandth off I prefer to start too snug than too slack. For interest sake and time I didn't show myself sanding the neck joint to fit a little less snugly. 

So you hear that kiddies? Don't make your neck joint too snug or you starve your joint of glue!:thumb:  

58 minutes ago, ScottR said:

I am very impressed with the way the double sided tape just vanishes. It takes a bit more work to get mine off.

I did not see the figure in that limba coming either. That popped out nicely when you wet it. This is going to be a gorgeous guitar and has been quite entertaining and informative to watch you build it.

Really smooth wardrobe changes too, quite impressive.:D

SR

Thx Scott.  The magic of editing.  

That piece of BL was a gem.   It was 12 ft long and the grain ran almost dead straight through the entire piece. I managed to pull 3 bodies from it. 

10 minutes ago, psikoT said:

Love everything, but the inlay job was freaking good... as someone said before, you make us feel like noobs.

Excellent work. Please keep uploading videos, they are awesome.

Grand compliment coming from you. :blush (love your builds man).   I actually shot hours of footage of the inlay process. I was kind of surprised that I ended up only using so little of it but I figured any more footage of watching me saw away at a piece of MOP would bore people. 

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Any chance that I can draw from your video in one of our own segments when it comes to gluing up neck joints? The biggest problem I find is that a lot of beginners follow what they see without question, and why wouldn't they? Too many builders demonstrate reproduce that super tight dry joint thinking it's good to glue up, whereas in reality it's a demonstration of working precision, nothing more. I'd like to close that circle.

I can't remember who I saw doing this now....was it yourself, @verhoevenc in your Myka jig video where the tapered tenon fits behind the pocket and is pushed forward to achieve sidewall pressure? That's the only instance I can think of where the fit off the router is usable and doesn't share the problems that top-down assembly has.

Talking of, "for show" John, I have a few things up my sleeve which might make you spit our your cheap beer over the monitor. :D

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23 minutes ago, sdshirtman said:

 I actually shot hours of footage of the inlay process.

Now that makes me feel a little better as the video made it look so quick and easy, As I said before that inlay is the dogs ........awesome work a joy to watch.

Not sure if you are brave or foolish working in your shop in bare feet, if that was me i'd be sure to drop something on them or stub my toe on some piece of crap on the floor.

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33 minutes ago, sdshirtman said:

I actually shot hours of footage of the inlay process. I was kind of surprised that I ended up only using so little of it but I figured any more footage of watching me saw away at a piece of MOP would bore people. 

The timing is perfect, it makes the thing more enjoyable. It's just that, after watching the whole woodworking process done with big tools, you know... then the inlay is done by hand and so precisely... it was a magic moment. :thumb:

 

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21 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Not sure if you are brave or foolish working in your shop in bare feet, if that was me i'd be sure to drop something on them or stub my toe on some piece of crap on the floor.

 

It's a PG thing. Every once in a while you have to sneak in a build shot that includes your feet.

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On 8/16/2017 at 0:02 PM, Prostheta said:

Any chance that I can draw from your video in one of our own segments when it comes to gluing up neck joints? The biggest problem I find is that a lot of beginners follow what they see without question, and why wouldn't they? Too many builders demonstrate reproduce that super tight dry joint thinking it's good to glue up, whereas in reality it's a demonstration of working precision, nothing more. I'd like to close that circle.

I can't remember who I saw doing this now....was it yourself, @verhoevenc in your Myka jig video where the tapered tenon fits behind the pocket and is pushed forward to achieve sidewall pressure? That's the only instance I can think of where the fit off the router is usable and doesn't share the problems that top-down assembly has.

Talking of, "for show" John, I have a few things up my sleeve which might make you spit our your cheap beer over the monitor. :D

Sure no problem. If you find the Myka jig thing post it. I'd like to check it out. 

On 8/16/2017 at 0:14 PM, meatloaf said:

Now that makes me feel a little better as the video made it look so quick and easy, As I said before that inlay is the dogs ........awesome work a joy to watch.

Not sure if you are brave or foolish working in your shop in bare feet, if that was me i'd be sure to drop something on them or stub my toe on some piece of crap on the floor.

Thanks man. glad you enjoyed it. On the barefoot thing. Its a bad habit but I just like going barefoot in the summer. As a matter of fact I just shot 18 holes barefoot last week. 

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@Prostheta that video's from long enough ago I forget exactly what all it says (without watching it again of course) but I do do what you're talking about. I've made neck joints that were so tight that when I added glue the neck wouldn't go in! This is not fun because you work your quickest to pull the neck out (it goes in a bit before it binds up) and clean all the glue off all the surfaces.

Unless I'm not putting a neck pickup I much prefer to make my pocket too long so that I can set the neck "loose" and pull it forward to lock in that sideway pressure.

Chris

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It's rarely pointed out that the water in glue swells surface fibres, and then you get fitting issues. Equally, several test fits of a neck in a tight pocket makes it seem to "loosen up enough" whereas the surfaces are just burnishing themselves, compressing surface fibres, making them less able to bond when adhered. That and they swell a large amount when they do take on water. This isn't a slight on John by any means, because the demonstrating the standard of one's precision dry joints has its value. From a learning perspective, it is accidentally-loaded with incorrect information or more accurately, is incomplete.

Getting older makes me wonder whether I have told this story more than twenty times....when I was assembling my main workbench, I added glue into the lower right leg mortise and fit the front stretcher and couldn't get it to close up. Fitted dry it was reasonably loose. Looser than a neck joint anyway. The hydraulic pressure of the glue wouldn't allow air in the joint to escape out of the joint, causing it to bounce. Even with four pipe clamps, it wouldn't close up. I've seen joints like that blow wood out of the other side from internal air pressure. This isn't to say that loose joints should be used by any means, however it does adequately demonstrate that wet assembly is often a different game with different issues to dry assembly. Pushing a neck tenon down into a too-tight closed mortise physically displaces most of the glue, often pushing it down into the mortise itself with nowhere to go. Again, creating that piston effect and a captive pocket of glue.

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My rule of thumb? Make the joint super tight when dry and right off the router. Sanding will then take away the material needed to allow for glue, fiber swell, etc.

Chris

Note: This is for set neck joints. For bolt ons I (now that I have a CNC) tell the CNC to give me a .010" offset for a total difference of .020" in width right off the table.

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6 hours ago, Prostheta said:

John'll be pissed that we derailed his thread! :wOOt

Nah. Everything said here has strong merit.

It also might be worth mentioning what humidity can do to a joint. I've had sitting neck joints pockets that have gone from being very snug to being loose enough you'd have almost considered a shim, only to see them back to being very snug again in the span of just a few dry days to few humid days. Theres a lot to be said for temperature and humidity controlled working environments. 

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