westhemann Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 ahhhh ! i just bought 5 bottles of blue food coloring bake a cake...a big one these dyes are really great...and the price looks prohibitive...but they make ALOT of dye...these are concentrated per amount of wood dyed,it is cheaper than the food coloring/polycrilic method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 anyone like some cake..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 isn't food colouring like 50p per bottle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 isn't food colouring like 50p per bottle? depends on the bottle...but yes it is...plus the cost of enough polycrilic to do the job...and factor in that one of those bottles from woodcraft will dye at LEAST 5 guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 nah , i was just wondering why LeeM looked so down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 nah , i was just wondering why LeeM looked so down because he thought he had something,and all he had was a cake,minus flour,eggs,and milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Perhaps that can be avoided by using a UV resistant clearcoat over top of the dye/stain. doesn't that negate the cost cutting effect? Not when most topcoats are UV resistant. I can name a few now. Automotive clear Poly U Clear Acrylic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Perhaps that can be avoided by using a UV resistant clearcoat over top of the dye/stain. doesn't that negate the cost cutting effect? Not when most topcoats are UV resistant. I can name a few now. Automotive clear Poly U Clear Acrylic Litchfield Custom Gutars, please explain where you obtained the relevant chemically proven information, to determine if food stuff products are compatiple with man made chemicals. Links would be nice. Now, i shall cut and paste, because you are reluctant to answer the question... We have had one member who had the entire finish fade within 6 months, why do you continue to ramp your methods that are: a) clearly not designed for lacquering or staining of wood, b ) that are more expensive per instrument ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Usually one would give more than 2 minutes to wait for a reply. It is still effective and that isnt the main point. The point is by being so adamant about this, you are effectively trying to totally ruin any credibility I do have. If you dont believe that it does not work, that's fine. The fact that it does, can be proven. That is the point is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Litchfield Custom Gutars, please explain where you obtained the relevant chemically proven information, to determine if food stuff products are compatiple with man made chemicals. Links would be nice. Experimentation on scrap wood is an advisable method of testing. And as far as the UV resistance of clears....read the damn can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I just don't understand why one would use this stuff. Dye from LMII is so freakin' cheap, why would you even take the risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Like I said it made small batches. That is what it is useful for. Rit dye doesnt save money either, and it has been used. With excellent results I might add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I buy dye for $3.50, put it in a jar and I can re-use it all the time. I can also put small batches in different jars. I don't understand what you're trying to say about making small batches. The whole point is that why would you risk a finish if tested and appropriate dye's can be bought DIRT cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 And it works. I encourage you to do so. I do now too, but if only a small batch is needed, this works, without the "Now what the hell am I gonna do with all this dye?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Well thanks for the encouragement, but why the hell should I try it? I can buy dye in any color I want for $3.50. This dye has been tested and approved on wood and gives great results. Why would I risk using something else that obviously doesn't give the same results and has been reported to lose it's color? What is the point of using this stuff????? I just can't see no single advantage to regular dye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I will post pics to attest to that it does work. The poly mixture is the kicker. Now I am not trying to force anyone to try this, just proving what I say to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I will post pics to attest to that it does work. The poly mixture is the kicker. Now I am not trying to force anyone to try this, just proving what I say to be true. Please answer the question, as asked NUMEROUS times so far. We know it possibly worked for you, and we also know it CERTAINLY didnt work for another forum member. What benefits are there?? You yourself have changed (editted) your original post to say there are absolutely NO cost savings (too bad you couldnt change the title, which says its cheaper), AND, that UV resisant lacquer is required. So what is the benefit?? What is the reason i should PAY MORE MONEY to have a product not suited to my application?? More news. My friends were visiting tonight, and one is a hair dresser. She said that food colouring is often used in fashion shows when the models need a different colour hair, but they dont want the colour to be permanent. Of course, they arent relying on the UV resistance properties of the lacquer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Obviously you cant read I did answer the question, and did not say that UV laquer was needed but that it is already being used. If it is needed , well, it's in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 isn't food colouring like 50p per bottle? £1.20 where i got them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ok, before anyone says anything about UV fading, bear in mind that the food color is water based dye (aka aniline) and mixed with the poly, it has more stability than one would think. Litch is gonna assume I'm jumping on him here - but I'm really just curious. The "aka aniline" written next to "water based dye" got me wondering. I remember reading that the term aniline has changed meanings over the years but I don't think it ever meant water based - did it? Here's the definition of aniline I found on the web: oily poisonous liquid amine obtained from nitrobenzene and used to make dyes and plastics and medicines Here's ReRanch's description: Aniline is a chemical that is a by product of burning coal. The first synthetic dye (mauve, developed in 1856) was a coal tar product and contained the chemical aniline but the term "aniline" has been used to include other chemical type dyes. Today the term "aniline" is used mainly to differentiate natural dyes from the synthetic dyes. The synthetic dyes offered by The ReRanch do not contain the chemical aniline. Take note that the class of dyes known as aniline are chemicals and as such should be treated with respect. So, what's the story with the "aka aniline"? Are food coloring dyes considered aniline or is there some confusion here on what the term aniline means? I know I'm confused. I know the timing of this question isn't the best for Litch but I'm really not good with chemistry and the longer I leave this confusion, the more likely I am to get it in my head the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Erronious info that was corrected 4 posts later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Thanks, I got stuck on the first post and didn't think it would be addressed in later posts. When I heard you made some corrections to the first post, I assumed everything was up-to-date - my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Here's the promised pics: During finishing: Ten minutes ago: As you can see the fretboard is off, going to fix some things that have been bugging be about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Dave, you were in the right to ask. With everyting going on recently, it can get confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 OK, now I've tried to understand the issues involved in this argument here. The UV is one and small batches is the other. Again, I am terrible at chemistry so please set me straight on this if I'm not correct: When it comes to UV protection, you need all you can get. Even with the more commonly used dyes, there will be some fading, right? So, you wouldn't want to rely on just the UV protection in the dye itself, you'd probably want some additional protection from the clear? If that's correct, then maybe using a dye with little to no UV protection isn't all that great? Even if the clear provides some protection, it would really be depressing to watch your finish fade over the years because you opted for a dye like this. Especially if the guitar was something you spent a long time building and really meant a lot to you - you'd want it to last as long as possible. So, unless I'm wrong (I know it's very possible), maybe it would be best to at least mention this in the first post so people like me will be given the opportunity to decide and not find out when it's too late? The smaller batch issue is one I don't really understand. I've been using the dyes from stewmac and filling a small amount of dye with alcohol in a small jar. Is that what is meant by small batches? If so, can't that be done with any dye? I'm probably not understanding this one properly so please don't take this with the tone that I'm being sarcastic. I really have little finishing experience when it comes to guitars so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm off the mark on this somehow. Where does the smaller batch benefit come from when using the food coloring? Sorry for the timing on these questions - I've got two guitars ready for finishing (two already finished) and I really want to understand the issues here. I've been putting finishing off for a long time because I have really dreaded learning all of the terms, procedures, ... but now I need to get into it and understand these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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