Bent side ES style

[avengers63]

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Waste is always a tragedy.

I agree 100%. You should see the ridiculous pile of cutoffs I saved, or the stacks of this pieces that might be useful for a scrollsaw project someday. I'm just pleased that the piece that was nearly destroyed in the planer wasn't a TOTAL waste.

[avengers63]

The replacement side, out of the bender, compared to the first one. After much debate, I put the pine side back into the bender with the "more water/more heat" plan. It'll prolly destroy itself. Cuz that's how these sides have been going.

 

In better and more predictable progress, we have a truss rod channel, and that rabbit got his ears.

 

Am I the only one who finds it incredibly satisfying to route for the truss rod?

[Prostheta]

It all depends. I found that the jigs I made for rear-routing a single-piece Tele neck were immensely satisfying because they work as per the design. To me, that is greater than just making wood disappear. I'll build a better mousetrap every time, however catching mice isn't always the driver you know?

[avengers63]

You may be on to something here. This is one of the few steps in the build process where I KNOW what the results will be. I've perfected it through experience and trial & error so that the results are quick, easy, and predictable.  So yeah... that's prolly it.

[avengers63]

The pine side re-bent as well as I could have hoped.  Now I gotta do some work on the gluing form. The trebel shoulder is in the way of the cutaway block

I had to re-position the threaded rod also.

So I put the sides into the form...

all spread-clamped into place...

everything's all nice and even...

got the bottom block glued on and in the clamps...

working on cutting away the excess at the neck and cutaway areas...

put the cutaway into place so I can finally get some exact dimensions for the bracing block that foes into the tip of the cutaway...

...and the whole fucking thing cracks right along the soft bits in-between the hard grain. The body does the same right at the joint, at mold-height. I'm guessing it's because the soft growth between the grain on pine is a hellofalot more fragile than in the woods we normally use. 

So I just threw in the towel for today. Seems like this is how thick it wants be. I'll cut it off flush next time I work on it. For now, it's time to walk away.

[thaumgarrett]

Just dropping in to say your dedication to this project even in spite of all the setbacks is admirable. I started building specifically because I'm terrible at finishing what I start and I wanted to finally give my kids a good example of (finally) seeing things through, and this thread has been very inspiring in that regard. Looking forward to the results. Cheers.

[avengers63]

Well thank you very much. I'm glad someone is getting some positivity from this dumpster fire. 

I have to look at it like this: I have no more than a cursory idea what I'm doing. I went into this expecting to screw this up six ways to Sunday, and I've not been proven wrong yet. This whole thing is just documenting my working through the absurdly steep learning curve. I honestly don't care how jacked up the box ends up.  I'll be happy if I can bolt the neck on, plug it in, and play it. 

The NEXT body, however...... It oughta be sweet.

[Prostheta]

I think that you'd be more likely to get good results by boiling the wood. The classical guitar book I have advocates soldering a tin bath for sides and using a heater underneath. Pine, yeah, you're asking for difficulties. Early wood is very low in solids, so by heating it you can almost melt the stuff.

[avengers63]

Tradition and voodoo are rarely the same thing in my experience....tradition is often the product of development based on pressures, limitations and generations of experience, whereas voodoo is the shit you find advertised in the back of guitar mags or the wank that companies like Graph Tech lay thick in their writeups about "tone", "sustain" or "an extra two inches".

7 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I think that you'd be more likely to get good results by boiling the wood. The classical guitar book I have advocates soldering a tin bath for sides and using a heater underneath. Pine, yeah, you're asking for difficulties. Early wood is very low in solids, so by heating it you can almost melt the stuff.

It seems you were dead-on the whole time and I just didn't care enough to listen. My apologies, revered sir.

 

 

 

Today I worked on the re-enforcing block for the point of the cutaway. It was a lot easier than I was anticipating. Just figure out the angle, transfer it to a suitable piece, cut and smooth it with a disk sander.

The curve extending around the horn was just as easy. Jam the block in to the corner, trace the curve, then cut & finesse sand it into shape.

I had to cut off the corner of the mold so I had a flat surface to clamp against.

 

I also figured out the wood for the center block: 3 pieces of leftover 2x4, planed flat and glued together. Again, tone and proper timbers are NOT a consideration for this initial build of the box. I just need to figure out the build process.

[Prostheta]

Nah John, I think experience needs to be hard-won otherwise it doesn't really move you forward. I'm enjoying the honest warts and all process you're documenting because I've wanted to work on an acoustic or archtop for years now, and just can't find the circumstances with which to make that happen. I've done a lot of wood bending and cold laminating with UF glues (brr) but I'm still vacillating in my head whether to elect for a Fox bender approach, make myself a steaming pipe or a tin bath for a camping stove. Not that this is happening yet anyway....!

[avengers63]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

...the honest warts and all process you're documenting...

There was a time I wanted to pretend that I actually knew what I was doing. Now, I look back and can see how plain it was that I was only fooling myself. I was wanting to impress y'all who were here when I started building. I'm soooooo past that now. There just doesn't seem to be any reason for pretense. And maybe my "warts and all" approach can help someone not be afraid to just go for it,  like our new member thaumgarrett.  

[Prostheta]

I've developed the habit of constantly re-evaluating everything I do, not just trying to take on new skills and knowledge.

Einstein is quoted as having said, "once you stop learning you start dying" which I don't think is entirely accurate on the face of it, however in meaning it's about right. You cease moving forward. I'd paraphrase Einstein (sounds a bit arrogant to do this) by re-writing it as, "once you stop learning you cease to be good". Errors and misjudgements are part of that learning process; making and taking something from them simply demonstrates that one can always be better....and to better yourself is entirely what it is to be skilled, capable and "good".

[avengers63]

It's hot and humid in St Louis today. But I'll be taking a shower before I go to work tonight, so I might as well get a little sweaty in the shop first.

The center block is shaped up as good as it needs to be. Not going for a perfect fit around the cutaway this time. I'm confident that I CAN get it perfect, it's just not necessary for the learning curve box.

I'm trying something a little different for the kerfing this time. I'm making small blocks +/- 1/2" square which are as tall as the body is thick. I'm making them from the cutoff of the center block, so everything is all the same height. To match the inside curve of the box, I'm holding sandpaper to the inside where they'll be glued and sanding the curve into them. They're all number-coded with the gluing placement so they don't get mixed up.

The left half of the spread clamp is in place as a precaution, and to hold the sides steady. It just seems like a good idea.

They might look a little spread out. That's cuz I can't do them all at once. Not enough room for the clamps.

[Guitar Goomba]

This is amazing.  I am really enjoying the thought process you are going through.  Making the R&D mule out of cheap wood is brilliant.  I can't wait to see the result of your labor.

[avengers63]

4 hours ago, Guitar Goomba said:

This is amazing.  I am really enjoying the thought process you are going through.  Making the R&D mule out of cheap wood is brilliant.  I can't wait to see the result of your labor.

Thanks! I share most of my thoughts in the process in hopes that it'll either help someone or that someone who knows better will steer me back on track.

This isn't my first rodeo. When I started woodworking and lutherie >10 years ago, I murdered a lot of innocent lumber being overconfident - thinking I knew more than I did. THAT'S why I use cheap crap for the R&D pieces. I can - and do - fuck it up royally without losing anything of value.

[Prostheta]

I've always been of the opinion that it's a good way forward. I mean, a lot of new builders spunk a bunch of cash into exotics and special timbers for first builds thinking that the wood will do the work, and it simply doesn't. Starting with trash or basics allows you to take something from the experience, learn more and apply that....or at least get a better bearing on where one's capabilities lie in relation to the complexities of projects. Unless one has significant woodworking or material fabrication experience, jumping in feet first is a surefire way to disappoint yourself and/or write off some beautiful wood. Been there too many times myself.

[avengers63]

I havent made much progress when we talked last. I was sidetracked with my bedroom & hall renovation. I almost have all the "purfling" on. Soon I'll have the back and center block on and have it closely resembling a body.

[avengers63]

The temperature is an amazing 75 here in the St Louis area today, so I'd better take advantage of it before i have to go to work.  Next step on tap is putting the back & center block onto the sides. 

I saw the note I made for myself before I got too carried away: cut the control cavity cover before gluing the back on.... and where to cut it. Yes, my history told me writing this note is 100% necessary. The cover itself is being made from a cutoff.

Were this not the R&D Mule, I would have paid more attention to craftsmanship. For this one, slapping the cover onto the back will be fine.

The center block got a channel routed into it to make room for the bracing. This is one of those learning opportunities on the Mule. The bracing is largely unnecessary because the substantial center block will provide most of it. I'll only need small buts on the sides and bottom in the future.  Less bracing also eliminates the need to cut away pieces of the bracing so it won't interfere with the purfling.

No, it's not glued on yet. Prepping the back will likely take another hour minimum, then the clamping itself. I don't have time for that before I have to go, so it'll just have to wait till next time.

 

[thaumgarrett]

I was going to ask where the cutaway is.... then I figured it out.

Anyhow, looking good!

[avengers63]

I got the box closed. The bottom is a biit wopperjawed and thwre are a few gaps where the top didn't make good glue contact with the sides. Both are because I tried something different, just to see what happened. And I don't care at all. This has been appropriately labled the "r&d mule", so this is the righr place to experiment a bit.

I still need to make the front & back even with the sides. I might even paint it with some leftover wall paint.

I'm just gonna uae a leftover neck I have lying around, a basic bridge, and a single pup. As I've said before, the only end result is to be able to play it and make some noise.

[avengers63]

Nearly 5 months later.....

 

I've been home and out of work since January 4. Long story short: I was pulling my bus into the garage at 1:30AM when I ran over a pedestrian. The police determined I was 100% NOT at fault (he was in a 55mph zone - no pedestrians allowed). The company didn't care and fired me anyway. The union tried to fight it and lost. I've was out on emoptional disability until March 31, seeing a trauma councillor on the companies dime. I'm now on unemployment waiting for a class A CDL truck driving class to open up.

The weather cleared up, and cabin fever is making me insane. Today it was time to re-open the doors on this learning project. Many of the things I did today...  I haven't done them in about 4 years. You forget all the little nuances of a fairly simple tasks when you haven't touched it in 4 years.

The first thing I wanted to do is make a wedge elevating the neck pocket template +/- 2.5 degrees for a neck angle.  Making the wedge wasn't a problem. The angle was right in the neighborhood of where you want it. The problem was how in the hell am I gonna secure the template down.

This is a worthwhile jig, but it's gonna get shelved for now. More thought needs to be put into it. I'll have to use a fender-style flat-top bridge this time.

Let's see if I can make the neck pocket without fucking it up too bad...

Considering the 4 year gap, it isn't too bad. The point of the forstner bit went a little too deep, but it's an overall acceptable pocket.  Can I do better with the pup route?

Yes I can. Just like riding a bike. And just like old times, I ripped off a little piece of the top from the center block. More mental notes for the future about glueing the top on.

Just going with a single neck pup, V, & T. Keeping it simple. I'm still conna recess the tailpiece since I made the neck pocket a little too deep. Forgot to compensate for that.

When I drilled the hole for the jack, I ran into the bracing, kicking the hole wopperjawed. The hole is there - too late now - but now I know for the future. So now we have a top jack and a little sound hole on the side.

If I'm able to work a little each day, I might be able to have this done this month.

[ScottR]

Damn John....

SR

[thaumgarrett]

Ugh. Horrible story. Wishing you and this gentleman's family the best in recovering from that tragedy. Hope this build becomes a healing experience.

[avengers63]

I got the bridge recessed a few days ago. I did a VERY basic sanding on the body today. Now I get to assemble and try out the HVLP spray setup I bought a few weeks before I lost my job. I'm not doing anything but laying out a few coats of clear. No buffing or polishing on the R&D mule.