Spindle sander idea

[ShatnersBassoon]

Ok so I recently purchased a spindle sander and I’m loving it! I have an idea with it, would love to hear your thoughts. How about using it to shape the neck? I don’t just mean the contour at the back of the neck, but the actual finished basic outline? That way I would have to worry a lot less about any tear out etc. Maybe a good idea for woods like Wenge. Would run some thin but heavy duty tape down the side of the neck template, maybe mark it with a pen and run the sander across it so that it is plush. Thoughts?

Edited April 9, 2019 by ShatnersBassoon

[ADFinlayson]

The trouble with spindle sanders for that kind of work, is it’s very difficult to product a perfectly straight line. It will be very easy to put little low/high spots along the taper of the neck. With is why most folk will route the taper along a template. You don’t really have to worry about tearout along the the taper with the router because you’re routing along the grain and not into end grain. 

I love my spindle sander and use it to shape headstock and body but the router is the best tool for the taper. 

 

[ShatnersBassoon]

27 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

The trouble with spindle sanders for that kind of work, is it’s very difficult to product a perfectly straight line. It will be very easy to put little low/high spots along the taper of the neck. With is why most folk will route the taper along a template. You don’t really have to worry about tearout along the the taper with the router because you’re routing along the grain and not into end grain. 

I love my spindle sander and use it to shape headstock and body but the router is the best tool for the taper. 

 

Thanks for reply! I do occasionally get a bit of tearout and I heard Wenge is quite bad for that. I have a nice piece of it and I’m slightly nervous about using it, given the horror stories. I suppose this happens more at the end of the Wood now I think about it. Anyway, suppose I should just bite my lip and go at it with the router! Definitely using the spindle for the headstock on my next build though.

Edited April 9, 2019 by ShatnersBassoon

[ADFinlayson]

1 hour ago, ShatnersBassoon said:

Thanks for reply! I do occasionally get a bit of tearout and I heard Wenge is quite bad for that. I have a nice piece of it and I’m slightly nervous about using it, given the horror stories. I suppose this happens more at the end of the Wood now I think about it. Anyway, suppose I should just bite my lip and go at it with the router! Definitely using the spindle for the headstock on my next build though.

This guitar I made last year had a 1-piece wenge neck and 2-piece wenge body. Had no issues with tear-out, but the only routing I did was on the neck taper, the headstock was shaped on the spindle sander and so was the body, after roughing out on the band saw that is. I did however use a good quality 3-flute router bit to cut the taper. I think you will be fine as long as you don't route end-grain and you use a good quality bit.

[ShatnersBassoon]

35 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

This guitar I made last year had a 1-piece wenge neck and 2-piece wenge body. Had no issues with tear-out, but the only routing I did was on the neck taper, the headstock was shaped on the spindle sander and so was the body, after roughing out on the band saw that is. I did however use a good quality 3-flute router bit to cut the taper. I think you will be fine as long as you don't route end-grain and you use a good quality bit.

Really beautiful work! That’s a stunning guitar so I guess with any end grain maybe use a spindle sander? Or use a saw? I really should invest in some good quality bits, mine are all cheap.

Edited April 9, 2019 by ShatnersBassoon

[ADFinlayson]

Just now, ShatnersBassoon said:

Really beautiful work! That’s a stunning guitar so I guess with any end grain maybe use a spindle sander? Or saw it off? 

Rough cut as close as you can safely on the band saw, then use the spindle sander to do the final shaping, and beware of splinters! Wenge is a f$cker for splinters

[ShatnersBassoon]

2 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

Rough cut as close as you can safely on the band saw, then use the spindle sander to do the final shaping, and beware of splinters! Wenge is a f$cker for splinters

Did you fill the Wenge or use any finish on it? 

[ADFinlayson]

1 hour ago, ShatnersBassoon said:

Did you fill the Wenge or use any finish on it? 

I rubbed oil in with 600 grit sand paper, it was more about sealing the grain than filling it. So it's protected yet still has the open grained feeling.

[mistermikev]

just to toss up an alternative viewpoint...I have used a router on every headstock I've made.  one walnut, two flamed maple and 1 birdseye.  I use a whiteside bowl bit for the most part but also have a stew mac 3/8 pattern bit. have had 1 small issue with tearout and it was because I wasn't routing downhill.  that said... spindle sander with a pattern following guide is something I may add to my tools for super figured wood.  if it wasn't for the dust/time factors I would use that always.

[ShatnersBassoon]

4 hours ago, mistermikev said:

just to toss up an alternative viewpoint...I have used a router on every headstock I've made.  one walnut, two flamed maple and 1 birdseye.  I use a whiteside bowl bit for the most part but also have a stew mac 3/8 pattern bit. have had 1 small issue with tearout and it was because I wasn't routing downhill.  that said... spindle sander with a pattern following guide is something I may add to my tools for super figured wood.  if it wasn't for the dust/time factors I would use that always.

I've not had totally smooth results in that area when it comes to using a router (including my test run on a walnut headstock....by god that was chippy! to such an extent that a massive chunk of wood went flying) a big problem has been the neck pocket area of the neck; the curve at the end has been an issue for me when using a router.

Edited April 9, 2019 by ShatnersBassoon

[ADFinlayson]

9 minutes ago, ShatnersBassoon said:

I've not had totally smooth results in that area when it comes to using a router (including my test run on a walnut headstock....by god that was chippy! to such an extent that a massive chunk of wood went flying) a big problem has been the neck pocket area of the neck; the curve at the end has been an issue for me when using a router.

I found on one of my current builds that walnut does not liked being routed either, especially endgrain. Now on my neck blanks, I route the taper up to the end, the I shape the very end on the spindle sander 

[mistermikev]

5 minutes ago, ShatnersBassoon said:

I've not had totally smooth results in that area when it comes to using a router (including my test run on a walnut headstock....by god that was chippy! to such an extent that a massive chunk of wood went flying) a big problem has been the neck pocket area of the neck; the curve at the end has been an issue for me when using a router.

well... first off you said cheap router bits... my guess is that is 9/10 your problem.  whiteside.  that's the best I've found.  worth every penny.  next... consider size of bit.  big bits are scary but actually less prone to tearout.  by big I don't mean long.  my bowl bit is 3/4 w 1/2 shank and 3/4 cutting length.  I generally don't take more than 1/4 depth off per pass.  For pickups you have to use a small bit... but you should hog out most of the material first using forstner and then bigger bit.  Walnut shouldn't give you any trouble unless its figured.  also a good router... my black n decker (never gets used anymore) was more prone to issues and I suspect it was because either A) wasn't turning as fast ie bad bearings and/or B) not much torque.   just some food for thought.

[ShatnersBassoon]

Just now, mistermikev said:

well... first off you said cheap router bits... my guess is that is 9/10 your problem.  whiteside.  that's the best I've found.  worth every penny.  next... consider size of bit.  big bits are scary but actually less prone to tearout.  by big I don't mean long.  my bowl bit is 3/4 w 1/2 shank and 3/4 cutting length.  I generally don't take more than 1/4 depth off per pass.  For pickups you have to use a small bit... but you should hog out most of the material first using forstner and then bigger bit.  Walnut shouldn't give you any trouble unless its figured.  also a good router... my black n decker (never gets used anymore) was more prone to issues and I suspect it was because either A) wasn't turning as fast ie bad bearings and/or not much torque.   just some food for thought.

Im definitely going to be experimenting with different bits, have you ever tried using a router bit for the neck radius/contour? As far as pickup/control panel routing goes Im doing quite well now I think, neck pockets too....although I have learnt the magic of tape the hard way!

[mistermikev]

have not tried doing the neck profile with bits.  I use the facet method.  I have been thinking a lot about it lately... if you shape the neck width taper, then put a gradual plane on the neck from first to say 2oth fret for thickness... in theory you could use a chamfer bit to do the first facet.  From there it would be an incredibly small amount of rasp work to get it profiled.  I already do everything but the chamfer... so just need to get one of those bits. 

There is a jig made by (afa I know) mr bill sheltima.  It basically allows you to take your router and a reg straight bit and complete the entire profile on the back of a neck based on some 'pucks' that you shape.  If I was building lots of guitars and wanted to do less work and guarantee more consistency I'd do that and have thought about it.  Honestly shaping the neck is my fav part of building a guitar so don't see that happening anytime soon.

afa neck shaper bits - really big bits in a router scare me a little... at least the size needed for a neck profile.  I think you'd want to be running those in a router with adjustable speed at the least... but talk about propensity for blow out... I wouldn't want to try one on figured maple.  too much surface in contact with the blade.  I've seen guys do it.