BMXGUY Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Hi im wondering how the black ice distortion works, i have a 3 pickup strat style system with lace holy grails, i also added a mini toggle to the neck so i can switch all on at once, would it be hard to put one on and would it work with what i have also ive seen those cheaper looking ones on ebay do they work Thanks alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 The REAL "black ice" ones are supposed to be used with high output pickups. 10K resistance or more. Most say it sounds like crap. It's made of real simple and cheap parts. A couple of diodes or something like that. someone else probably can draw the circuit for you. I don't really know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Circuitry is enclosed in a black plastic cube, no way in unless you destroy the unit. I soldered one into my recently stolen mahogany custom. The guitar was wired up ala SG with Golden Age overwound humbuckers, 3 way switch, 1 vol. for each pickup, master tone, those three pots were 500Kohm, 4th pot was a 250Kohm and controlled the Black Ice Passive distortion. Installation is very specific and to deviate from instructions will make the unit operate at less than optimum potential. You NEED high output pickups and it MUST be installed on a 250K pot, nuf said. I tried it with a 500K ohm pot and it sounded muddy. The Golden Age pups I used were rated at 12 Kohms. So how did I like it? I found it worked best at higher volumes and affected the bass to midrange frequencies the most. I got it to sound like a dirty overdriven tube amp, sort of like that "fuzz" sound that came out of the 60's. It also added a nice edge to other distortion/effects pedal inputs. Should you get one? Its up to you, its sort of cool to be playing a distorted guitar and people don't see any pedals. But you have to make it work for you. I find its just another extra feature and something I don't really need. But thats me. I prefer a simple setup and my next guitar is going to be fairly basic, just one vol and one tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Funny you should ask about that just click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 (edited) It's a simple pair of Silicon diodes, wired like this: For more clipping with lower gain pickups, try Germanium diodes, like 1N34 or 1N60 - even with the pot, it's a $5.00 project. Don't expect too much, it ain't a TubeScreamer. Ooops, looks like Brian beat me to it! Edited January 29, 2004 by lovekraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I'm a dummy when it comes to electronics (as well as many finishing techniques). So, I want to know if I have some diodes that say 1N34 or 1N60 on them, that means they are Germanium diodes ? I got all kinds of those, from all kinds of electronic equipment junk people gave me. Used some on my 'tube screamer' ( as you know, the screamer does use some diodes, but a whole lot more stuff too) You got me interested in this thing now that you say it can be modded to work with weaker pickups. How weak do you think ? 7, 8, 9 K maybe ? "it ain't no tube screamer" Well, my tube screamer made my guitar and amp sound just like that damn Creed song , don't know the name, but it was on the radio all the time and had the line " when you are with me, bla bla bla.... " NOT the sound I want, so when it stopped working I left it broke. So who knows, maybe this "black ice" ain't so bad. I never tried it. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Thats all the black ice distortion thing is??? LOLOLOL as far as i know the way that diodes in feedback loops like that work to make distorion is that when the sine wave that comes out the pickups ( im making a few guesses at peoples knowledge of electronics here tho i figure most people know what a sine wave is) it has a choice of 2 paths to take in the circuit diagram. it can either go around the diodes or through them. now, as a sine wave is a continually changing voltage basically, when it has a lower voltage it isnt acually able to "turn the diode on" and so will go round, however when it reaches a higher voltage it is able to turn the diode on and so will go through that part of the circuit. this means that there will be a voltage across the diode and it is this voltage lost that "flattens out" the top of the sine wave and creates the distortion so from this i reckon that if you were going to make one of these to work with weaker pups then you would want diodes with a much lower voltage turn on point. ill have a look and see what i can find in the catalogues ive got on my comp for you guys i hope this explains things a bit, if anybody's confused just ask and ill draw some pictures and try to give a better explanation btw Soapbarstrat, if you have a broken tube screamer that you dont want then im quite happy to give it a home i reckon a bit of modding and i could give it some more balls lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Silicon diodes will conduct at about 0.7Volt and Germanium at about 0.3 volt so your pickup needs to give more than this output if you want distortion. Physics is against you if your output is less than 0.3v, I don't know of any semiconducter that has a lower forward voltage bias, you will have to add an op-amp to boost the signal then allow the diodes to clip. You might as well then build a Blues-Breaker distortion unit which uses diodes and op-amps in a similar fashion but with a lot more control of gain etc. The problem is that the clipping turns on hard as soon as you exceed the voltage threshhold as stated above and off as soon as you go below it. Fiddling around with op-amps you can have the onset of the distortion happen much softer. (Vacuum tubes tend to do this when overdriven hence their "nicer" sound) Have a look at General Guitar Gadgets for the Blues Breaker schematic. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMXGUY Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 could it be put on a push pull pot to be switched on as distortion than on as tone thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 yes it can, my hotstick from brian is on a push/pull when in normal position its tone, but pull it out and it turns the crunch on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 THIS IS THE CIRUIT FOR THAT THING? THAT THING THAT STEWMAC CHARGES LIKE $30 FOR?!? HAHA!!! I could go down to my local elctronics supplier and pick those things up for about $5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Silicon diodes will conduct at about 0.7Volt and Germanium at about 0.3 volt so your pickup needs to give more than this output if you want distortion. Physics is against you if your output is less than 0.3v, I don't know of any semiconducter that has a lower forward voltage bias, you will have to add an op-amp to boost the signal then allow the diodes to clip. You might as well then build a Blues-Breaker distortion unit which uses diodes and op-amps in a similar fashion but with a lot more control of gain etc. The problem is that the clipping turns on hard as soon as you exceed the voltage threshhold as stated above and off as soon as you go below it. Fiddling around with op-amps you can have the onset of the distortion happen much softer. (Vacuum tubes tend to do this when overdriven hence their "nicer" sound) Have a look at General Guitar Gadgets for the Blues Breaker schematic. Keith one word schotky ok two words schotky diodes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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