Jump to content

I have little to no idea of what I'm doing...


JayT
 Share

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Prostheta said:

 

The thin sidewall in the pocket is fragile to my eye. It serves no supporting purpose for the neck and will likely break in use. Is it absolutely an essential part of your design intent?

 

No, I guess it was a (another) measurement mistake...but ended up helping alining the neck (seemingly anyway) & I’ve already trimmed itB7B9D541-F800-4335-BCAC-758F9F948BF6.thumb.jpeg.732e391e54e3ff51da33a1beb5bfc7be.jpeg

also did 2nd body neck pocket, this one went way smoother

8517F7DA-8EC0-4898-A0AC-AC35A5E19599.thumb.jpeg.8d1f1f4d5d26fddc01ebd8ba9289725a.jpeg

EAAA44FA-08C9-4909-9F4B-814039B83E19.thumb.jpeg.7a0035f2ebde9b7a4c002c94d4dfc70a.jpeg

and got that snug fit that holds the weight of the body...starting to take shape!

C47AF4D5-1D53-459F-8567-6C825722C72F.thumb.jpeg.94d046e95afa252eaeb769d12a2a15a5.jpeg

I even found time to make a cavity template, but am not sure how deep to make each one. Researching tomorrow 

66212BAF-C725-4FAC-98E0-237DBDF88CC1.thumb.jpeg.95dacdf02d63c03caf33a56140d3f53d.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/2/2020 at 7:32 AM, Bizman62 said:

I thought it's something that will get cut off at a later stage, serving for aligning purposes until then. That's how we were instructed to do with the Tele's at the course.

I pretty much do all my neck joins that way. The thin part is for locating the neck and gets carved away whilst carving the neck join.

SR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit of progress...every cut is nerve wracking at this point :)

18087915-ABC6-42AA-A94D-EA20D0041154.thumb.jpeg.33ddf9770513fcf1e874d0d5e1340784.jpeg

and who knew drilling 6 straight, perpendicular holes is near impossible? Even with a drill press. I saw some videos after the fact on how to do it...pretty labor intensive. Anyway, I’m inching towards the finish line

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, JayT said:

A bit of progress...every cut is nerve wracking at this point :)

18087915-ABC6-42AA-A94D-EA20D0041154.thumb.jpeg.33ddf9770513fcf1e874d0d5e1340784.jpeg

and who knew drilling 6 straight, perpendicular holes is near impossible? Even with a drill press. I saw some videos after the fact on how to do it...pretty labor intensive. Anyway, I’m inching towards the finish line

really starting to come together there.  looks great. 

afa straight lines... I hear ya.  with good brad point bits and a solid template I have managed to do a pretty good job but have thought a lot about how to get it 'right' and my best guess is to setup a fence and drill the holes in square stock first... then carpet tape that to the guitar and place the bit in the hole.  I actually did that on my recent tele and it worked good.  I s'pose there's lots of ways to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Routing cavities, first one went no problem...2nd one again router issues! How does a flush bit with 2 bearings dig into the wall?

C722D1BC-176A-404D-B1EB-8C8561C01C84.thumb.jpeg.160d604e66c66af6e459b7ce65db8e84.jpeg

but I made a little plug (not putty despite that being my first instinct) worked fine but wish I thought of grain matching at least a little. 

255EB3B1-24BA-4DE6-9032-6B1DFA4BC471.thumb.jpeg.7f9d148b0872439fc154a68731d369cd.jpeg

turned out ok...going to one painted and under pick guard so no BFD I suppose.

Rounded hard edges and carved belly cut tonight 

1DAD2C6D-28B5-46D3-951C-1F7EA9EF9362.thumb.jpeg.f2794800211e482eb6055a81fe3f05e6.jpeg

EA477395-D50D-4E83-A0CE-47225B5B9735.thumb.jpeg.1d517fff9d5f11910f1de1b36cce50e3.jpeg

carving is easily my favorite part of this process

C063E4D3-F64F-4F37-8985-2599DC499765.thumb.jpeg.d68359eb86e7cf14018cf39a321d5385.jpeg

8DBEB5A0-F87F-46D8-A1FE-CDE43AA9F959.thumb.jpeg.48a9c67d496cc925f4b63dc80800e88f.jpeg

F00EE8D8-7B21-4414-A92D-BFDB998F528A.thumb.jpeg.989f8164df7e8c978636b519e9987013.jpeg

Edited by JayT
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JayT said:

Routing cavities, first one went no problem...2nd one again router issues! How does a flush bit with 2 bearings dig into the wall?

 

but I made a little plug (not putty despite that being my first instinct) worked fine but wish I thought of grain matching at least a little.

turned out ok...going to one painted and under pick guard so no BFD I suppose.

Rounded hard edges and carved belly cut tonight

carving is easily my favorite part of this process

 

the only way I know of a router slipping is if the bit is slipping in the collet at which point I would say your wood is the least of your worries!  did the template slip?  are your bearings secured such that they won't move up or down? 

I have a black and decker router that is far from the ritz but it works fine (only 1/4" bits tho) and you are welcome to it (pm me).  Not sure what it'd cost to ship but I would be happy to box it up and send it if it means preventing you from getting hurt.  One way or another, I'd like to see you get to the bottom of this issue before something bad happens. 

Not trying to be dramatic but if a bit comes out of the router while it's running - you don't want to be in the sm state let alone holding that thing!

perhaps you can toss up some photos of the router/bit setup?

anywho, glad you weren't hurt and it looks like you recovered w a plug so... good on ya!  build(s) are looking handsome.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/11/2020 at 1:02 AM, JayT said:

Routing cavities, first one went no problem...2nd one again router issues! How does a flush bit with 2 bearings dig into the wall?

C722D1BC-176A-404D-B1EB-8C8561C01C84.thumb.jpeg.160d604e66c66af6e459b7ce65db8e84.jpeg

Did it cut into your template too?  Were you doing a full depth rout?

There are a number of issues here, in addition to the words of caution the @mistermikev raises.

First, with hand routers, is that the golden rule is to be cutting very small amounts of material - whether depth or width - at a time.  My personal rule is 2mm max at a time.  The reason I set that limit so small is that if the blade digs into the wood rather than cuts it - and I find any deeper a cut than 2mm massively increases that risk - then the full power of the router transfers to trying to either snatch the workpiece from your hands or snatching the router itself from your hands.  And - trust me - we've all done it.

I have had so many near misses or damaged tops or templates that, nowadays, I only use the router for the final 'tidying up'.  The main thing is to get the bulk out first so that you already have a chamber that the router bit is enclosed in with only small amounts of wood left at the sides or the bottom for the router bit to have to remove.  Personally, I use a Forstner bit to do that hogging out - as close to the pencil line as I can:

MVrzuTvl.jpg  

You can see here how little material I leave for the infernal router to remove!

 

Carve looks good, by the way.  It's when the carve starts that the beauty of a guitar or bass design starts to show itself!

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/10/2020 at 8:55 PM, mistermikev said:

did the template slip?  are your bearings secured such that they won't move up or down?

I don't think so this time, since that for sure happened last time when I forgot/overlooked tightening sufficiently (pretty sure I only hand twisted that time). I've been taking extra care to remember to use the provide wrench and torque down pretty hard.

EDIT: possible the bearing wasn't 100% secured...that didn't occur to me.  I'll check for sure since I added another to the bit just before.

The router I have (wen rt6033) uses an insert to fit my 1/4 inch bits ... 

1919435659_ScreenShot2020-02-12at10_10_14AM.png.4f53edab187b880b88e9e4abda03dff4.png812817036_ScreenShot2020-02-12at10_14_32AM.png.d25c8c967947a211bd42711beca45267.png ... maybe that's problematic, but again I don't think so.

Here's the (3/4 rad) I was  using... 

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect operator error.

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Did it cut into your template too?  Were you doing a full depth rout?

No, the template wasn't cut into. No I didn't do a full-depth cut ... I read someplace that you could go as deep as the width of the collet. So I was going 1/4 inch each pass,

In fact, this gouge happened AFTER the cavity was finished, removed the template after 2nd of 4 passes. Once done I thought the cavity needed to be "cleaned-up/smoother" and did one last pass ... possible I hit the plunge release, or released too much ... or was pressing too hard against the wall on the "clean-up" pass (or likely all three)

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

The main thing is to get the bulk out first so that you already have a chamber that the router bit is enclosed in with only small amounts of wood left at the sides or the bottom for the router bit to have to remove.  Personally, I use a Forstner bit to do that hogging out - as close to the pencil line as I can:

I also do use a forster bit to hog out bulk...though not the the extent you show! What I did was hog-out with a 3/4inch bit then chisel out the remaining "points". When I tried to hog out overlapping anther hole the bit would slip into the hole. I remedied that somewhat by pressing in really slow AND changing out to smaller bits, but still went to the chisel to flated out the wall...which I discovered isn't ideal as I tended to graze the face of the body by accident and/or lay the chisel on top which has obvious potential consequences.

Lessons learned:

  • slow down!
  • remove more bulk
  • reduce routing depth/increase passes
  • make sure bearing lock is secure

thanks to all for the help, pointers & tips!!!

Edited by JayT
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good job on the repair, certainly much better than using filler as that should only be used to fill small dinges and even then only on solid colour guitars.

i have router issues of my own but am learning.  I like the double bearing on your bit, means less likely to dig into and track your templates but also is good in case a bearing lets go.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This weekend I finished up the cavities, and connecting them. Plus I made the template(s) for the pick guard (a few reject attempts but finally got something pretty good will know when I cut the actual plastic)...not to mention  built a router table for my new router since it doesn't fit the old table I got free with used router that blew up.

But now I've discover a (another) flaw in my design and could use some member's expertise.

The jack cavity placement...I'm not sure what to do here. originally I envisioned position 'A' ... but not sure if that distance is too far (for the wiring and/or actually drilling a straight, centered hole to the controls)

I want to use 'A' but came up with 3 other options... Please excuse the crudity of this model as I didn't have time to build it to scale or paint it. -- Doc Brown, 1959

JACK.thumb.png.dd3743915f7e808a8db8e684b14072d1.pngJACK2.thumb.png.0a04c7e899fd0fbf250e3e99adce5d48.png

option 'D' not pictured in my mockups, but would be something like a Jaguar input on the the face.

1926689585_ScreenShot2020-02-17at9_23_45AM.png.0e8fc72ab04a7263136175376cbdd916.png

I think I can pull off 'A' but with everything on this build "I don't know what I don't know" ... maybe I can't think of a huge pitfall with this approach? I don't think theres enough room for the electronics in 'C' ...

Thoughts, opinions? As always ---> Thanks in advance!

Edited by JayT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

C might hit your lap when sitting.

Between A and B, attach a nut with double sided tape to see which looks nicer. Even better if you can attach an actual guitar cord for a mock up - a flat top angled one should stick long enough,  or an extension cord. I wouldn't worry about using a long drill bit. You can start with a shorter one and go perpendicularly for a good jack's length. Then change to a step drill and enlarge the edge of the hole to the right diameter. Then take a flat spade bit and enlarge the entire hole. When you've finished doing that the distance from the bottom to the control cavity will be much shorter.

D as on the Jaguar or even something like on a Strat? Jag style of those two, definitely, unless you carve the recess instead of using a steel cup!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the above, a long drill bit and A will work.  Don’t stress it too much, using a long drill bit is easier than you might think.

the hardest part of any of this is getting a clean hole bored to take the jack, but even then that will be hidden behind a jack plate (depending on what you intended to use).

also be aware of where the jack is on your guitar stand, (if you use a stand that is) you don’t want it stopping you from putting the guitar on the stand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

C might hit your lap when sitting.

good point, how did I not think of that?

2 hours ago, willliam_q said:

the hardest part of any of this is getting a clean hole bored to take the jack, but even then that will be hidden behind a jack plate (depending on what you intended to use).

759259305_ScreenShot2020-02-17at2_21_27PM.png.dbe0f9ea058b1656594f6863869a5125.png I wanted the ElectroSocket style but settled on these $2.00 plates for the first builds.

 Incidentally, the only other person to get these and post a picture was this guy. There's no reason to have the input sticking out like this, right? I experimented with and could easily get it pretty much flush...what is this guy doing? Is his hole not deep enough?

184161326_ScreenShot2020-02-17at1_50_01PM.png.de04b780ccbf0397d637e9578aab2131.png

 

I watched a video of 2 guys drilling all the connecting holes from the plugin hole...a straight shot from the jack, to the control cavity to both pick-ups. That was pretty cool but it took 2 guys to get it perfect and an impact drill. 

2 hours ago, willliam_q said:

also be aware of where the jack is on your guitar stand, (if you use a stand that is) you don’t want it stopping you from putting the guitar on the stand.

Ah, another great point that didn't occur to me! See, it's these little details that might just keep me off the ledge :)

Oh, I never added the string-ground hole to the bridge. I think I need this but not 100% sure. I'm not even sure what grounding is to be honest...something to do with not killing yourself in general terms, but I think in regards to guitars it is more of an interference/buzz reducer...right?

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, JayT said:

That was pretty cool but it took 2 guys to get it perfect and an impact drill

Shouldn't need anything a brutal as an impact drill. A regular cordless will do the job just fine. When drilling the long channel just make it with a few short 'plunge and withdraw' steps rather than drilling the full length in one shot. Withdrawing the bit every 1/2" of depth or so will clear the chips in the hole and minimise heat buildup on the bit.

 

1 hour ago, JayT said:

what is this guy doing? Is his hole not deep enough?

Maybe. Or he didn't bother installing a second nut on the jack to make it sit a little deeper behind the plate. Either way, the difference is cosmetic only.

 

59 minutes ago, JayT said:

but I think in regards to guitars it is more of an interference/buzz reducer...right

Correct, although it does have the side effect of making the metallic parts of the guitar at the same potential as earth., which is deemed 'safe' from an electrical standpoint. Although, it's only as good as the earth in whatever you've plugged the guitar in to. Don't concern yourself too much about the nitty gritty of it. You'll primarily want the strings grounded for noise reduction purposes.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, JayT said:

There's no reason to have the input sticking out like this, right? I experimented with and could easily get it pretty much flush...what is this guy doing? Is his hole not deep enough?

Now that you got it there, just look at the edge of the plate and imagine what it would look like recessed flush with the body...

Regarding too shallow holes, I had that issue. The jack worked perfectly well until I fastened it, after that the plug wouldn't go all the way in. And at disassembly the tip prong was bent. Apparently the tip went through the smaller hole at the bottom with the wiring.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drilled holes for neck,...questions, with the recessed screws I came within 3 millimeters of the back of the finger board. Is that too deep? Maybe I need shorter screws? So glad I didn’t contour the back heel!

D29D5C1F-56E5-4F29-8450-660E03F5A9BB.thumb.jpeg.382b91de408515b6d2c7fbb4748caa53.jpeg 

97259D72-7484-4EF3-BE65-A7FAC0755BFF.thumb.jpeg.3fe754162e21160dba111be5513162db.jpeg

I’m pretty much ready to sand and finish the body...should I drill the small holes for pick-guard, pickup face plate, etc before I paint or after? And strap button holes?

7F08C09E-89A1-4FAB-8155-F9F68F4E0846.thumb.jpeg.6739ccb47486481a91e7426df699ada0.jpeg 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, JayT said:

I came within 3 millimeters of the back of the finger board. Is that too deep?

If it's not at risk of punching through to the fretboard I'd leave it. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

4 hours ago, JayT said:

should I drill the small holes for pick-guard, pickup face plate, etc before I paint or after? And strap button holes?

Probably could work either way, but you've already drilled a bunch of small holes before painting it anyway (the bridge), so perhaps that will sway your indecision for you :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JayT said:

with the recessed screws I came within 3 millimeters of the back of the finger board. Is that too deep? Maybe I need shorter screws?

If they don't come through the finger board they're short enough. However, if it makes you feel safer, you can knock the very tip off now that the screws have cut a thread in their hole. HINT: When putting the screws in turn them backwards until it drops into the thread as that will keep the holes in better shape!

5 hours ago, JayT said:

should I drill the small holes for pick-guard, pickup face plate, etc before I paint or after? And strap button holes?

Drilling after painting requires a little more attention since you can't sand any scratches back. However,note that the layer of paint can affect the final positioning of the pickguard so drilling after painting seems to make sense. Another HINT: To prevent chipping, drill slowly backwards through the paint, on the bare wood you can change the direction back to normal.

I tend to drill the strap button holes last when all the hardware is in place as that allows for finding the best balance point. With an unusual shape like yours the "traditional" places don't necessarily work for best balance, a couple of inches either way can make a huge difference.

-A friend just bought a Jack Bruce style bass, unfortunately though he got the long neck version. The best way to strap it is to attach both ends of the straps to the same button in the upper horn!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...