Foot Pedal for Pickup change-over

[Crusader]

Some of the old ES-335's had stereo outputs and now and then I think its not a bad idea. And just recently I thought it would be cool if you could implement it along with a foot pedal that changed from Neck PU to Bridge PU. Switching from Neck to Bridge would be so much easier and you could get a Wah-wah type of sound out of it

Anyone think this is a good idea, and how hard would it be to do?

[mistermikev]

It can sure be done... but you may or may not introduce noise depending on the cable you use (you are effectively doubling the signal you are passing outside the guitar).  folks do it.  you'd simply wire it up inside a box like it was inside the guitar - two spst stomp switches would allow you to turn on one or the other or both.  You could also consider passing the signal on a stereo cable... might be less cumbersome. 

an alternative would be a flip flop circuit inside the guitar.  this would require the sm number of wires but would not pass more than 1 signal outside the guitar.  there are lots of schematics on the web for the boss flip flop that they use to turn on/off an effect.  sm idea.  it just uses a momentary to send a signal back to trigger the path.  downside being it requires a battery. 

[curtisa]

11 hours ago, Crusader said:

and you could get a Wah-wah type of sound out of it

When you say switching from neck to bridge, do you mean in a continuously variable kind of way or a hard 'one-or-the-other' operation?

Hard on/off switching is pretty straight forward, although you will likely want some kind of visual feedback of which pickup is selected on the footswitch. A toggle switch on a guitar is easy, as the position the lever is in is the visual key as to what pickup is selected. A footswitch on the floor is harder, as by itself it doesn't give any clue as to whether it is selected one way or the other before you start playing. At the very least you're probably looking at adding a battery to power an LED to give some feedback as to what position the footswitch is in.

A single footswitch would give you 'bridge pickup' or 'neck pickup' selectivity quite easily. However if you want to add a 'both pickups' option then you're going to have to add at least one more footswitch (plus indication). Quick changes between pickups might then involve a bit of forward thinking and toe-tapping as to how to get between the pickup options if speed is important while making pickup selection changes on the fly.

 

10 hours ago, mistermikev said:

an alternative would be a flip flop circuit inside the guitar. 

A neat idea, but probably akin to using a bulldozer to plant daisies , and building it into the guitar...well, you might as well just use a toggle switch in the first place.

[mistermikev]

Just now, curtisa said:

 

A neat idea, but probably akin to using a bulldozer to plant daisies , and building it into the guitar...well, you might as well just use a toggle switch in the first place.

not sure if you misunderstood... but you'd have a flip flop and a single line going out to a stomp switch... stepping on the stomp outside the guitar would flip the pickups inside the guitar.  2 trannies, 8 resistors and 4 caps.  not exactly brain surgery but sure, more complicated than mechanical.

[curtisa]

All good. I knew what you meant. I still reckon a Boss-style changeover is over-engineering the solution, particularly if you're not savvy with the finer knowledge of building up electronic circuits, which many builders here may not be. The requirement to plug in a remote footswitch exclusively to allow the pickups to be selected, plus install a small PCB and battery inside a guitar may also be less attractive than simply running a stereo guitar cable through what, for all intents and purposes is just another stompbox.

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, curtisa said:

All good. I knew what you meant. I still reckon a Boss-style changeover is over-engineering the solution, particularly if you're not savvy with the finer knowledge of building up electronic circuits, which many builders here may not be. The requirement to plug in a remote footswitch exclusively to allow the pickups to be selected, plus install a small PCB and battery inside a guitar may also be less attractive than simply running a stereo guitar cable through what, for all intents and purposes is just another stompbox.

true dat.  I suspect that doing this with a relay would probably more akin to a bulldozer... but true dat. 

[Crusader]

On 3/11/2020 at 10:00 AM, curtisa said:

When you say switching from neck to bridge, do you mean in a continuously variable kind of way or a hard 'one-or-the-other' operation?

(I'm sorry I could have elaborated more) Yes a continuous variable type of thing like a "wah-wah" pedal, so you can get a blend of each pickup as well as one or the other. Up for Neck and down for Bridge just like a LP switch. And I was thinking you could have a notch in the middle so you know when you have an equal blend of both. It would be an easier way to blend instead of using the volume controls

I wouldn't see much point in having a "one or the other" operation - That would still keep your hand free for playing (I'm absolutely hopeless at flicking switches or adjusting controls while playing) But the added benefit of blending is what I had in mind

[mistermikev]

I would look into diy optical wah simply because it would be more difficult to work out w a mechanical pot, let alone the physical limitations.  In theory if you can setup an optical wah, you can setup an optical vol... and from there it would seem like setting up two leds/ldrs would be pretty doable.  Have no experience doing this other than various circuits that use led/ldr.  Have seen some threads with an led/ldr seperated by a thin piece of metal that tapers... as the pedal is lifted the obstruction between the led/ldr is lifted and resistance is altered.  Other than that... I don't know much about it... but just thought perhaps a keyword would push you in the right direction.

 

 

[curtisa]

The easier option would be to buy a panning pedal. Electro Harmonix make one that claims to be able to "... blend two inputs to one output..." which sounds exactly like what you're after. I'm sure there are other options out there.

[mistermikev]

15 minutes ago, curtisa said:

The easier option would be to buy a panning pedal. Electro Harmonix make one that claims to be able to "... blend two inputs to one output..." which sounds exactly like what you're after. I'm sure there are other options out there.

I'm guessing with a panner... you are going to have issues with the center not being a full vol mix of either pickup... but if that still works for ya... then yeah.

[Crusader]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:32 AM, mistermikev said:

...issues with the center not being a full vol mix of either pickup... but if that still works for ya... then yeah.

I haven't even thought about it but doesn't a panner have full volume for both inputs at centre position?

[mistermikev]

57 minutes ago, Crusader said:

I haven't even thought about it but doesn't a panner have full volume for both inputs at centre position?

I dunno... yes/no/maybe?  I know this is a common issue with bass blends.  a pot reaches it's max/min at either end of the rotation... not the middle.  so typical blends tend to not give you 100% one or the other at either end.  In the middle either pickup will be at something a little less than full vol but evenly mixed because you are (in thoery) doubling the signal.  In reality it's a lot more difficult to get worked out perfect.  either you don't have a good blend, or you don't get either pickup isolated.   But I'm guessing that this would be fine for 90% of people so I probably should have just kept my big mouth shut and not opened the can of worms.

that said... I could see two individual volume pedals working pretty well.  You could toss a boost in front to get equiv full volume of both at the 50/50 mix point. 

 

 

[Crusader]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

......so I probably should have just kept my big mouth shut and not opened the can of worms

big LOLs!

My idea is to have two volume pots facing each other. At first I was thinking of having them connected but after your comment I realised they would have to work separately to each other. So then I altered the idea to.....have you ever seen the inner workings of video cassette recorders? Lots of nylon gears, and sometimes they have teeth only going half way of their travel

If you had something like this, a half toothless shark chowing down on a sunflower

One going one way and the other the opposite. I wouldn't use the spline on the Pots, too small a radius. I would connect a gear wheel onto the pot (instead of a volume knob) The bar with the teeth on it might need to be curved

[mistermikev]

something that may or may not help... if you take a pot and take a variable resistor (ie trim pot).  if you start with say a 500k pot... and you wire in a variable resistor across lugs 1/3... you can change the resistance of that pot.  so if you take a 500k pot for instance, and put a 6k resistor in parallel with it... you effectively convert it to a 6k pot.  So with a trimmer pot in parallel... you could adjust the trim to zero in on the optimal value.  might come in handy.  So, in theory, if you had a ganged pot... you could effectively get different resistances on either.  You can alter the curve of resistance as well by placing the resistor between lugs 1/2 and 2/3 vs 1/3.