omg can nitro experts chime in?

[mistermikev]

so... I've been finishing my lespaul/tele for about 3 months now.  short version is I scratched finish scraping binding, all the way to wood, so did complete refin.  then i left it outside and the shade got away from it and the sun caused little bubbles.  then I burned thru the sunburst again trying to fix that.  this time I spot repaired the burst and it turned out good.  but now... grandpa's getting old... lost control of fingers, dropped a can and got a nice 1/4 shatter mark in it.  I wetsanded it down and thought maybe new finish would melt into it but no such luck.  I'm staring yet another complete refin in the face here and went online and did some reading about how to 'un check' a finish using butyl cellosolve... is that the only option?  I'd have to order more than I'd like to have around and then wait 3 days to get it. 

would a drop of acetone work?  hair dryer?  ca glue?  any other options? 

it's less of a 'fill' and more of a 'tiny cracks/shatter marks'.  I think now that I put a layer of nitro on top it's probably sealed so ca glue likely will do nothing. 

oh, despair.  I guess if this is the worste thing that happens today... i'll be ok.

anyone help a brutha out?

[ADFinlayson]

As you know I'm no expert, but I used CA in quite a few place son the bass. Once I got the first few coats of lacquer on, I found several hairline cracks in the wood that I didn't notice before the gloss, I filled those with CA, sanded flush and recoated. Those areas are now completely invisible. 

Based on how many gos you've had on this build though, I think you need to make some sort of sacrifice before you proceed, maybe a goat, cow, or sweet spot blonde.

[komodo]

@mistermikev I’ve made a few posts in my Black Queen build as well as @Crusader s build where we both had some checking issues. I procured some Cellusolve and it IS the best way.

I tried thinner, acetone, etcetc to no avail. It’s best to open up the cracks a little, but you can also but a few drops on it and just wait. It’ll get really soft, almost liquidy, then you can carefully move it around a little to make sure the solvent fully saturates. It’s hard to describe. You let it dry for a couple days, drop fill with straight nitro, Scrape down (razor with tape wraps, ala Erlewine trick), then sand and polish. 
 

Black Queen has been plagued with crazing and I’ve repaired all to about 99%. There are a couple tiny areas where solvent darkened the dye but it saved the top.

[mistermikev]

12 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

As you know I'm no expert, but I used CA in quite a few place son the bass. Once I got the first few coats of lacquer on, I found several hairline cracks in the wood that I didn't notice before the gloss, I filled those with CA, sanded flush and recoated. Those areas are now completely invisible. 

Based on how many gos you've had on this build though, I think you need to make some sort of sacrifice before you proceed, maybe a goat, cow, or sweet spot blonde.

thank you ad.  very much appreciate it and think you might def be on to something with that sacrificing a goat idea... but I'm going to wait to hear from @Norris!!!!!

9 hours ago, komodo said:

@mistermikev I’ve made a few posts in my Black Queen build as well as @Crusader s build where we both had some checking issues. I procured some Cellusolve and it IS the best way.

I tried thinner, acetone, etcetc to no avail. It’s best to open up the cracks a little, but you can also but a few drops on it and just wait. It’ll get really soft, almost liquidy, then you can carefully move it around a little to make sure the solvent fully saturates. It’s hard to describe. You let it dry for a couple days, drop fill with straight nitro, Scrape down (razor with tape wraps, ala Erlewine trick), then sand and polish. 
 

Black Queen has been plagued with crazing and I’ve repaired all to about 99%. There are a couple tiny areas where solvent darkened the dye but it saved the top.

thank you komodo.  lat night I tried some acetone out of desperation.  I put some in a syringe and poked the area to try to get it down to the 'shattered' mark.  unfortunately there isn't much of a crack there... just fine shatter marks.  I'm going to wet sand it today, put some more on... and then try a coat over the top to see if they will meld together. 

I think I'll order the cellusolve as it has been recommended by a few and if it works; great... if not it's good to have around.  I'm starting to think it may be too fine to work... but I'll give it a shot.

 

On the bright side I'm logging a lot of finishing hours on this one build!  Getting better with the airbrush too!

[Prostheta]

I've no experience with cellusolve. I think the problem with drop filling with common solvents to try and fix deep issues is that you're melting a thick layer of nitro which expands as it goes into solution and might not level or fill out as well as one might expect, especially since acetone, alcohol, etc. flash off really quickly.

I presume cellusolve is imbued with special magic so it works slowly?

[Norris]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

but I'm going to wait to hear from @Norris!!!!!

I don't know if I'm really the expert with cracking. My worst one was pushing in tuner bushes with a soldering iron, which got too hot and fried the lacquer. I had to dig out the loose, frazzled bits and then drop fill. Also some shattering on the board when I scraped the frets having let too much lacquer build up, which was also drop filled 

I'd go for @komodo's suggestion. What's the worst that could happen? The Cellusolve has two chances...

[Prostheta]

I hear that nitro shrinks back at the very mention of @Norris

[mistermikev]

18 minutes ago, Norris said:

I don't know if I'm really the expert with cracking. My worst one was pushing in tuner bushes with a soldering iron, which got too hot and fried the lacquer. I had to dig out the loose, frazzled bits and then drop fill. Also some shattering on the board when I scraped the frets having let too much lacquer build up, which was also drop filled 

I'd go for @komodo's suggestion. What's the worst that could happen? The Cellusolve has two chances...

right on brutha.  I think I might have her on the run here because I let some acetone sit on it overnight... I've now wet sanded... and from an angle it looks like it will be pretty hidden.  I'm going to shoot a new coat on top, and see... will post pics here shortly.

15 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I hear that nitro shrinks back at the very mention of @Norris

hehe, you caught me off guard w that one.  his latest build looks outstanding... I'm guessing we all have our trials and tribulations but this(lp/tele) build has been seemingly cursed!

[Prostheta]

5 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

hehe, you caught me off guard w that one.  his latest build looks outstanding... I'm guessing we all have our trials and tribulations but this(lp/tele) build has been seemingly cursed!

I know....Norris has really come a long way, and it only seems like yesterday that he started builds? Crazy.

[mistermikev]

Just now, Prostheta said:

I know....Norris has really come a long way, and it only seems like yesterday that he started builds? Crazy.

cream rising for sure.

[Norris]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

cream rising for sure.

Yeah - a grand veteran of two guitars 

[Prostheta]

I claim a derailing!

[mistermikev]

fairly hard to spot here... almost invisible

[mistermikev]

pretty easy to spot here... but I haven't filled it.  I think we're just seeing the edge of the depression. 

I'm just going to fill with layers as I'm afraid the watco can of lacquer I have isn't a perfect match for the spray cans. 

[ScottR]

I don't see anything....but my eyes are going bad on me.

SR

[mistermikev]

32 minutes ago, ScottR said:

I don't see anything....but my eyes are going bad on me.

SR

if you look just to the right of the bridge pickup... there's about 1/4" divot there.  it's pretty well going to be covered by the lp pick guard... but atm I'm actually feeling like I can do better on the whole thing.  this might be one of those situations where you keep messing with it when you shouldn't so Imma sleep on it.

[ScottR]

Good call. I never finished a build that didn't have some aspect that I felt I could do better on. But you can spend as much time chasing tiny faults as you did building the whole damn guitar. You do what your nature tells you, but I get to the point where I'm the only one that can see it....and only if I hunt, and stop. And use that as a target to surpass on the next build. In the meantime, if no one else can see it, it ain't there.

SR

 

[mistermikev]

32 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Good call. I never finished a build that didn't have some aspect that I felt I could do better on. But you can spend as much time chasing tiny faults as you did building the whole damn guitar. You do what your nature tells you, but I get to the point where I'm the only one that can see it....and only if I hunt, and stop. And use that as a target to surpass on the next build. In the meantime, if no one else can see it, it ain't there.

SR

 

right... I've often times been obsessed with "i can do better" only to end up degrading from there.  it's sometimes hard to recognize if what awaits you if you keep chasing... that said... you only get one shot to make it right cause once you put that hardware on it's 10 times harder to redo!

[komodo]

Guys. Look:

Crazing, cracks, whatever. Drops of Cellusolve onto the area. If crazing is very fine, you can open it up with an Xacto. @Prostheta is right, it’s the slowest curing solvent and will basically turn the nitro into jelly. After a day or two the area solidifies and you can do drop fills which melt into the rest. Sand to fine grits and you won’t know it was there. This pictured area is gone now. Not hidden, gone. I’ve had some new crazing appear but it’s not in the original places. Nitro must be shrinking and cracking?

As mentioned, there are a couple tiny spots where the solvent made the dye layer spread and darken some, but they are very small spots.

[mistermikev]

On 6/20/2020 at 6:38 PM, komodo said:

Guys. Look:

Crazing, cracks, whatever. Drops of Cellusolve onto the area. If crazing is very fine, you can open it up with an Xacto. @Prostheta is right, it’s the slowest curing solvent and will basically turn the nitro into jelly. After a day or two the area solidifies and you can do drop fills which melt into the rest. Sand to fine grits and you won’t know it was there. This pictured area is gone now. Not hidden, gone. I’ve had some new crazing appear but it’s not in the original places. Nitro must be shrinking and cracking?

As mentioned, there are a couple tiny spots where the solvent made the dye layer spread and darken some, but they are very small spots.

right on.  I am storing that away for later.  Since the finish had a few 'tiny bubbles' from being roasted at 120 deg in the az sun on accident... and since I never really was all that happy with the burst... I decided to give it another shot. 

I got a good feeling about this round!  this time I did the burst b4 doing a layer of clear and it seems to allow the flame to show thru a bit more... so it was a good experience and learning.