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ES2 - Big LP and LP4


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I was trying to get the photos to go side by side but they kept coming up all in line

Glued top to body and routed binding channel

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Had to join the binding. I thought it was a good place to hide but discovered later you look straight at it when playing!

Found a hacksaw blade the best thing to cut off excess

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Had to reshape the top a bit, worked out nicely

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In hindsight it would have been better for the joint to be the other way round, or just a square joint. I'm still holding hope that I can melt it over

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On previous guitars I've had trouble getting a tight tenon joint but this time I used hand tools more and I'm very happy with it. Haven't glued on yet, just held in with a screw!

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I just sit here looking at it. The maple has no flame in it but that swirling grain is magic

953749982_IMG_9664BLPstringson.jpg.85a15c847eac22670e43b46feec2b6bb.jpg

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So as I think I mentioned before I have been moving the bridge around and comparing different scale lengths. The ones I'm considering are 24 3/4 inches, 25.3 inches and 666mm. While doing this I noticed the ring-on from the string partials from the nut to the pegs. 24 3/4" and 666mm had quite a bit more so this became a deciding factor and I've decided on 25.3 inches. And after all I did design the peg spacings for that scale length

Just for example, when I have it set at 24 3/4" the nut to peg length of the G string (154mm) is close to the 4th harmonic of that string. When I have the bridge set at 666mm there is quite a bit of ring-on but none of the string partials match any string's harmonic lengths. But the A string partial matches the 5th harmonic of the fourth string!

Interesting

24 3/4" = 628.65mm.......628.65mm divided by four = 157.2mm which is close to 154 and causes ring-on

666mm divided by five = 133.2mm which doesn't match any of the nut to peg partials but does match the pitch of the A string 106mm

There are others but they are the main ones

IMG_9730.jpg.9df60081e16cdd8b12f72cd08a1808a7.jpg

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Interesting indeed! I've never thought about measuring the natural harmonics and comparing them with the nut-to-tuner lengths!

It made me wonder if a locking nut would eliminate that ringing?

Also, a barred chord would change it all, wouldn't it, as it changes the scale length similarly to a capo?

 

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I built a Strat with an angle on the headstock, therefore no string trees. My pegs would not be the same distance apart as a Fender but nevertheless the ringing-on is terrible. While you're playing you are changing chords and moving around the fretboard, its hard to pin it down if the ringing-on is causing unwanted overtones. I'd say a bar chord would halt the problem and a locking nut I think definitely would

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  • 3 weeks later...

Latest progress with this

I decided to try the 666mm Scale which keeps the bridge position relative to a standard Les Paul. I can try it before I glue it in and if I don't like it I can swap it out. I also extended the fretboard to get 24 frets. I wish I had left the fb full length, really kicking myself over that. The joint will be under the 20th fret so hopefully won't be noticeable

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To router the channel for binding I set the neck up under the bench. The silly thing is the edge of the MDF wasn't square so it routered just the right thickness for thicker binding (not shown) The neck is extra wide so it should work out okay. It turned out right for the other side

1621665029_IMG_9689BLPneckbinding.jpg.d51ed45d8421168598416ca634bf1a95.jpg752012427_IMG_9691BLPneckbinding.jpg.5dbad643e3af38fa8efb122ead9e1c9c.jpg

 

I got the fretslots cut and did a bodgy job of it but then that's what Super Glue is for! Then did the Radius

956607677_IMG_9697BLPFrets.jpg.3517f09169c92128ca69da9c688b08be.jpg948176981_IMG_9698BLPFBradius.jpg.d215d4dc422a996bc2496c1aa878caaf.jpg

The Graphtech Piezo arrived later in the day so now I have two to choose from. The Graphtech will need more components so will have to look into that later

1172714402_IMG_9702PiezoBridges.jpg.b98adaa899163ebd51488885d32b3a24.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got a delivery a couple of days ago so progress has resumed

Such a big box for such a small shipment

IMG_2035.jpg.7aa5beec20eba64aebed1c71e8fb5b83.jpg

 

I intended this fretboard to have a 25.3" Scale and I anchored it while gluing where the 12th fret dots would be but now they ended up in the 11th fret position

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So a bit of repair was required and ................. problem disappears!

869000281_IMG_9724BLPfbrepair.jpg.f9f3f4aaa0ac8ccd4029c880368d9a53.jpg   1571660284_IMG_9725BLPfbrepair.jpg.3546c002d3b9ba71df30d03f0e680fb5.jpg

 

This is the first time I've ever installed MOP block inlays so it was very stressful but it turned out quite well

62536241_IMG_9726BLPfbinlays.jpg.504340d53ad646294d50c576873b4436.jpg   1432998800_IMG_9727BLPfbinlays.jpg.a4de2c86cad9139b12d5f6ff2f9dd311.jpg

1200721714_IMG_9728BLPfbinlays.jpg.9d9515ff85e2629afa7f7bd9810a9b91.jpg   843539480_IMG_9729BLPfbinlays.jpg.85bdfacc35a41cb140b6e9d79760bf68.jpg

 

The first one fitted perfectly (then the rest got worse)

838445841_IMG_9730BLPfbinlays.jpg.fe19d93643a728cc6d1e1769fea14bbd.jpg

 

I haven't glued them in yet because I am undecided what type of glue to use. ALS say to use Epoxy with sawdust from the fretboard but I think I could just use Superglue. Anyone have suggestions about this?

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Wow! Talk about invisible patches and grain matching, that's stupendous!

RE glue, if your fitting is perfect then you can use either CA or epoxy. But if there's gaps, mixing epoxy with sawdust will look more natural as CA will darken the dust a LOT.

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18 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Wow! Talk about invisible patches and grain matching, that's stupendous!

Thank you, cheers

 

18 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

RE glue, if your fitting is perfect then you can use either CA or epoxy. But if there's gaps, mixing epoxy with sawdust will look more natural as CA will darken the dust a LOT.

Ah so now it makes sense to me. There are a couple of tiny gaps so I think I could go either way

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Thank you all for the compliments!

So here's a picture of the inlays. I still haven't glued them in yet but it shouldn't take long. Funny thing, I was wondering if they'd be thick enough for the radius, huh! its only about half a millimetre that will get shaved off the edges

....Oh whoops you can see one of the repairs I made LOL

Also you might wonder why I put a marker in the 1st fret position, I could have started at the 3rd fret like a Standard, therefore having a marker for the 24th position. I was concerned if I moved them up that some of them would be too close to the frets. The scale length is 666mm which means from the First fret it is 24 3/4 inches. So starting at the 3rd fret is same as starting at the 4th fret on a Gibson. And besides I might not keep the 24th fret

Another interesting thing I did is I altered the Fret Factor so it really is 24 3/4 inches from the 1st fret. I achieved this by dividing 666 by 628.65mm (24 3/4") = 1.05941303

The 12th root of 2 is 1.05946309 so I don't think you'd notice any difference in Intonation

1587507289_IMG_9746BLPfbinlays.jpg.bcc2c6ec6790dac495eaab35bd817827.jpg

Edited by Crusader
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5 minutes ago, Crusader said:

Funny thing, I was wondering if they'd be thick enough for the radius, huh! its only about half a millimetre that will get shaved off the edges

That seems to be a common concern, yet it's fairly simple to calculate the height difference at various places on the radiused fretboard.

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On 10/30/2021 at 3:57 PM, Bizman62 said:

Wow! Talk about invisible patches and grain matching, that's stupendous!

RE glue, if your fitting is perfect then you can use either CA or epoxy. But if there's gaps, mixing epoxy with sawdust will look more natural as CA will darken the dust a LOT.

For darker woods, I generally use epoxy mixed with a generous amount of fine sawdust.  The squeeze-out fills all gaps, including the micro gap present even in the closest fitting inlay. 

Sanded down it is as invisible (to your eye and fretting fingers) as your excellent fretboard hole fills.  Works less well with lighter woods such as maple where the dust darkens and so can look like a border if the fit isn't very tight.

Impressive build and fascinating discussion about actually designing the nut-to-post distances to match exact harmonics....  

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Thanks for the compliments, you had me steering toward getting some epoxy....but......I couldn't be stuffed going to Bunnings so I just used Super Glue (which I already have)

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So its done, Yay! and they look pretty good to me but you're right there are some gaps, esp. on the 12th fret

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By the way talking about fret spacings, a couple of interesting things. I'm a bit of a Gibson fan so I generally use the 18th Rule. However I tried it on a 666 scale before but it isn't the best. Using it on a 24 3/4 scale it causes the notes in the middle of the fretboard to be a little low and the upper ones slightly high, but with a longer Scale length the discrepancy becomes too much

While calculating I don't actually use 18, I use a number derived from it 1.058823529 This is found by a simple formula which also works for the 12th root of 2

1 divided by (1 - 1/18) = 1.058823529 and this number is actually 1 1/17th and thinking about all this is how I came up with the idea of dividing 666 by 628.65 to get my divisor for this guitar 1.059413028


Adding a fret to the 24 3/4 scale using the 18th Rule in millimetres comes to 665.63 And the other way round, a 666 scale via 12th root of 2 makes the 1st fret 628.62mm But I am so pedantic I wanted them both to be exact

24 3/4 inches = 628.65mm

666 divided by (my new number) 1.059413028 = exactly 628.65

and 628.65 times  1.059413028 = 666

Edited by Crusader
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  • 2 months later...

Wow I had to dig a bit to find my post, but that's actually a good thing!

I finally got a bit of progress recently, I decided what to do about the 24th fret inlay. Bought some random pieces of MOP and a saw. This one didn't fit very well and I had to fill the gaps with sawdust and I just used Superglue. Its just a matter of using what you've got

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Then I went to continue with the frets but the neck wouldn't fit in the jig, so I had to shape the back of the Headstock!

Good thing I actually enjoy doing this part, it's bit of a challenge but not too hard and very rewarding

I use the curve of the upper bout it seems a perfect match

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281657050_IMG_9942BLP.jpg.c0ef4f9b55fa43d1139f6b6dd6dcd9be.jpg

 

Just used sandpaper to smooth the back of the headstock and blend it in

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And after a bit more fussing about the end result is as I said quite rewarding

663646987_IMG_9944BLP.jpg.a06c92c9378cc71936aeca7b4171965a.jpg

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Gotta love the way you use what you've got for an improvised curve template! I guess that's something that younger folks just can't figure out, they just want cnc'd factory made templates for everything while we grumpy elderly farts simply take something that looks right and use it.

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  • 1 month later...

I thought I had not done much since last post but I've actually done quite a bit

Finished block inlays, Binding done, Frets in, Neck Profile.....the list goes on

....and here's the proof!

 

I made this neck quite wide being 45mm at the Nut, I like a wider string spacing

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Cleaned up the end of the fretboard and as shown before I haven't glued the Neck on yet and just hold it by a single screw

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Locating Bridge, setting intonation, filing nut slots

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I had to do something about the floating fretboard end and altered the Neck Carve

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Altering the Neck Carve meant making a few adjustments. Recessing the bridge was a very well-thought out feature (wink wink) which helps hide the wires of the Graphtech Resomax Ghost bridge

880063670_IMG_10027BLPNeckjoin.jpg.f1738f71bace2b9bf55a67a08ebef13c.jpg 386981066_IMG_0033BLPbridgehiddenwires.jpg.15cef6df9ac3c27f22ade32ddcf1685e.jpg

 

Another feature I've put into this guitar is a rounded fretboard edge. I stuffed up when I trimmed the fretboard. So to keep the width I wanted I had to use thicker binding on the low E side. The photo is half way through the process of rounding the edge. Next photo, shaping the heel with an old door knob!

1718095797_IMG_10042BLPFretends.jpg.b18538326ba52c8021b2b6298eac2bf9.jpg 1626536766_IMG_0008BLPHeel.jpg.375b98f40aec966a02034eac2099d546.jpg

 

And side dots, something I ALWAYS forget. But luckily I remembered them before glueing the neck on this time! Next I made the profile match my Gibson R9

127224027_IMG_10038BLPsidedots.jpg.9d5e4bd26b5a3c9fd619da9333fe2904.jpg 293374676_IMG_10054BLPprofile.jpg.e07abcc4f7133b4c6db7b17e18bcb405.jpg

 

Before I reshaped the profile here's how it compared to the Les Paul Axcess and the R9

I could just leave the profile as is but the R9 is my Holy Grail so whatever its got, I want

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The depth turned out a bit thinner than the R9 but I think I'm okay with that

I think the R9 is 23.1mm at the 1st fret and about 25 at the 12th fret. You might think half a millimetre is nothing but it can actually be quite noticeable

581929032_IMG_10047BLPNeckthickness.jpg.100124dc0b46a47651c2b7f6f68690f1.jpg 1757033812_IMG_10049BLPNeckthickness.jpg.c1a2c9092a77d884fd428bda670d7c64.jpg

 

Next - Pickup location

569297707_IMG_0049BLPpickuplocation.jpg.e61e96b2299c0327efbaf6270b5c4ddf.jpg

 

Then I installed the Tailpiece

The way I do this is really quite laughable. I just get a drill and hold it, eye it up, "yep that's straight" and go for it!

This one didn't turn out the best, the post holes had a bit of a lean, but with a bit of a wriggle it turned out alright

40524047_IMG_0050BLPTailpiecelocation.jpg.b0f2c5158fb69cd168214fb47c5ea3a1.jpg 186850460_IMG_0052BLPTailpieceposts.jpg.86688f8eb43123bc9dfacced0f152c1a.jpg

 

And next the pickup wells, and another thing I ALWAYS forget is the notch for the pickup tabs

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Getting those tabs...

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And finally. I think this are the neatest pickup wells I've ever done!

1902769819_IMG_0062BLPpuwellsdone.jpg.93cc23488c5ddec8f57b83162359eafb.jpg

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Next I installed the Truss Rod, I do this with a very long drill bit and drill from the end of the neck and through the headstock. Then with a 12mm bit that I made with a pilot end I drill for the maple sleeve. I forgot that ebony is brittle and it chipped out so I had to mix up some ebony dust with glue to remedy the situation

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1841898166_IMG_0093BLPmaplesleeve.jpg.9bbbf62ee5a36c930d0594b879327eb7.jpg 1712432920_IMG_0106BLPhsgapsfilled.jpg.4a55957bc0527e7e8f271c9ec576fad6.jpg

Then I realised I had no access to the truss rod anchor nut and chiselled a section out, then realised that would be no good either. So I glued the neck on and drilled the truss rod channel through the maple top, so its anchored in the same way as any of my other guitars. By the way when I glued the neck on I just held it in place with that one screw LOL! I also glued a block of wood to give the top a bit more strength if it needed it

1562156696_IMG_0077BLPTrussanchoraccess.jpg.5c67e0b5af77489d12153f81c3ea6cf8.jpg 1793029451_IMG_0118BLPinside.jpg.5ec3448c40ad4fd6f4c772e50f910930.jpg

495123481_IMG_0109BLPinstallTrussRod.jpg.1bf6d56dba9028dcec0d9e1713aeb2e3.jpg 1090443432_IMG_0110BLPTrussRodinstalled.jpg.2f139f032a98e060445e1456424c3309.jpg

 

304840906_IMG_0097BLPNeckglued.jpg.fb574bf254c82841ff3fe33e417f2b69.jpg 968890947_IMG_0125BLPtenonext.jpg.f52e2058cf89046467038371ca74577c.jpg

 

Then I did a bunch of other things and plugged it in

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13 hours ago, Charlie H 72 said:

Looking good! Am I reading correctly that you drilled the truss rod channel? Starting from the heel? 

Hi thanks for your comment, no I just drilled through the headstock veneer (I have to be careful how I say things LOL) I did the truss rod channel the usual way with the maple filler etc. as you can see in this photo

1574747241_IMG_8508Neck9veneer.jpg.37b8057313918ee1938bd274d9473446.jpg

 

You can see the drill bit poking out the end on the next photo

739318093_IMG_0078BLPdrillheadforTrussrod.jpg.9abcb941bdb9ff97462c13e6e26c88d6.jpg 1661220982_IMG_0079BLPdrillheadforTrussrod.jpg.66887ba8e8e587f3a96c902471900dcf.jpg

 

Here is my home made long drill bit. Its just a piece of truss rod and I did the twisty things on a bench grinder...? or a hand held grinder, I can't remember

1821402930_IMG_0154mylongdrillbit.jpg.3af4b224300e9a1cb74bb1c4f515f3a3.jpg 367638561_IMG_0155mylongdrillbit.jpg.594bf92b3217f0f28de26d923cf9be57.jpg

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