Saddle distance

[RonMay]

47 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

The problem isn't that bad as the bridge is "too" high. It only means the action will also be high which is much easier to fix than a rattling low action. Based on the images it looks to be pretty much right - remember there has to be a gap between the frets and the strings! If you want further proof, lay a piece of cardboard or veneer the thickness of your preferred action on the frets and do the ruler trick again.

Getting a mirror or even better an endoscope camera inside the guitar would tell if there's space enough for a strengthening pad for a pinned style bridge. If the bracing is right down there a remake of the current one is about the only option. If you watch enough of Jerry Rosa videos, you'll notice that he most often opts the bolts out and relies on a good glue join. Then again, they're decorative and part of the history. Anyhow, getting a view from the inside is what you'd now need. Even a smart phone camera can reveal the secrets there.

 

I'm glad you pointed that out because I totally forgot about the diameter of the strings. Thank you. You're right. It may not really be that bad. The action I would prefer is about 0.085" and strings would be 10s or 11s. So maybe that's actually just about right. The .125 - .085 - .047 (big E string) = 0.007.  If that's accurate it looks almost right on.

I do have a smart phone photo. I set it to voice activation then put it inside the guitar ad..., "smile" and here's what I saw. It looks to me like it's not robust enough for pin holes. I don't think it's wide enough. I'm not sure about the thickness.

Its funny that you should mention an endoscope. I just ordered one yesterday from Amazon.

 

It looks pretty clear why it pulled off in the first place. It might have been glued and fastened with bolts over the lacquer finish. But that's just a guess.

 

Ron

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by RonMay

[RonMay]

To me this means it's only about .040" low. which may not be too bad.

Ron

Edited August 25, 2020 by RonMay
more accurate statement

[Bizman62]

24 minutes ago, RonMay said:

It might have been glued and fastened with bolts over the lacquer finish.

I was looking at the same thing. Looks like there's a couple of mm's rim of thick lacquer under the bridge.

I also agree that the supporting veneer looks narrow. Then again the pin holes would line up roughly right between the screws. It looks thick enough, based on what I've seen on videos. The biggest question to me is the wood: If it's soft spruce, the ball ends will eat themselves through. Hard maple would be strong enough given that the slat is properly glued in place. On the lowest image it looks like there's some fine glue squeezeout which is a good sign.

There seems to be quite a good variety of ready made bridges for reasonable prices so getting a matching one of both types might be a good choice.

[RonMay]

@Bizman62, I think two bridges is a good idea. Seeing which one works out better and to be able to compare side by side would help make a smart choice in stead of an experiment. I might be able to send the other one back. Matching the size and approximate shape might be a little challenging. But finding a supplier and ordering them is a ways off yet.

I watched one RSW video where the bridge was kind of glued on like that.

Thanks for that suggestion. I appreciate it.

Ron

[MiKro]

10 minutes ago, RonMay said:

@Bizman62, I think two bridges is a good idea. Seeing which one works out better and to be able to compare side by side would help make a smart choice in stead of an experiment. I might be able to send the other one back. Matching the size and approximate shape might be a little challenging. But finding a supplier and ordering them is a ways off yet.

I watched one RSW video where the bridge was kind of glued on like that.

Thanks for that suggestion. I appreciate it.

Ron

Ron, since I am just North of you by about 9-10 hours drive in Dallas. If you have time and need a custom bridge plate let me know. I can usually model one quickly as I have a few already done  and would only need to tweak them and machine it as well. Shipping would be minimal for something like this. I would need a few dimensions from you but I think that would be another option.  

Mike

[RonMay]

@MiKro, thank you. Another option is always welcome. I believe the bracing is only a parallel  layout so the dimensions should be pretty simple and straight forward. I'm not sure that removing and replacing a bridge support is in my limited skill level though. I'll cross that "bridge" when I come to it.

 

Ron

[MiKro]

4 minutes ago, RonMay said:

@MiKro, thank you. Another option is always welcome. I believe the bracing is only a parallel  layout so the dimensions should be pretty simple and straight forward. I'm not sure that removing and replacing a bridge support is in my limited skill level though. I'll cross that "bridge" when I come to it.

 

Ron

I can also make a new saddle if needed as well.

MK

[RonMay]

Thank you @MiKro. It's definitely going to need one of those.

Ron

[RonMay]

I repaired the crack between the upper and lower bout. You can still see it, but it feels absolutely smooth. I can push down from the top and up from the inside and it doesn't open up a little like it did and doesn't move. I sort of wedged a "stick" under it from the inside and let the really thin CA glue flow in, then quickly removed the stick and slightly pressed down for about 15 seconds or so. I think it's structurally sound now.

I then very lightly sanded with progressively finer sand paper until it was smooth, followed up with linseed oil.

Even though you can still see it , it literally feels like a smooth success.

before:

after

 

Ron

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by RonMay
add pictures

[RonMay]

I also cleaned up the rosette.

 

 

Ron

 

 

[Bizman62]

There's several reasons why you still can see it. One is that there may be dirt which has coloured the wood in the crack. Another is that super glue can darken the wood - something that's very obvious when you mix it with sawdust!

Anyhow, very nice job! You've really managed to get the crack smooth and level.

[RonMay]

@Bizman62, I think you're absolutely right. Just like all the crud and grime which is all over it.

Thank you.

Ron

[RonMay]

I started cleaning up the back binding.

 

I should have taken the photo in the shade.

 

Ron

Edited August 28, 2020 by RonMay

[RonMay]

*hit wrong button  and it won't let me delete*

Edited August 28, 2020 by RonMay

[RonMay]

Currently I am humidifying this guitar and was wondering is there a number where it's too much humidity? I know that to little is bad but is too much? I would imagine so, right?

 

Ron

[RonMay]

There's a loose brace on the back lower bout and I wanted to see how bad the loose brace was visually. I marked it with a sharpie and here's what I found. I'm not quite ready to fix it yet, but will be in the near future I hope. I don't know if Titebond would flow under this brace with some help from gravity if held in an upright position and I'm still thinking about what kind of bracing I want to use.

When I "gently" pull or wiggle it it moves a bit. I didn't do this too hard in fear of popping it loose completely.

I've had a brainstorm idea of a "jack screw" device, then found it on youtube already invented and sold by StewMac and others. But it would be easy enough to make, but it looks like it might be a little fiddly trying to extend it to add a little force to the brace for gluing. I think a dowel rod of a measured and cut piece of wood and wedge it in might be a better and simpler route to go.

The video is a little hard to focus on but you can see that it is loose from the end to about a third or a little more of the length of the brace. It does correspond  to the cracks on the back that I've already fixed.

 

Loose Brace

 

 

I also noticed that the strap button is through the top of the guitar and not in the neck brace. But it's been there for decades and I might want to leave it alone.

 

 

Ron

[Bizman62]

Again from the RSW cookbook, use a small paintbrush to apply water into the seam. It'll flow in much more easily than glue! Then, when you've got some water in, apply Titebond and let the water drag it in as it gets sucked into the pores. You can wiggle that brace gently for a pumping effect if you wish. If you see squeezeout when tightening the brace you'll know there's glue underneath. Wipe the excess glue off with a damp rag.

Also, if you so wish, unscrew the strap button and glue a tiny bit of wood so it's attached both on the top and the neck brace. That will require some scraping to get the glue squeezeout out of the way but as we're talking about a block the size of a dice it shouldn't be too much of an effort.

[RonMay]

@Bizman62, I had seen Jerry Rosa do that with cracks but didn't think about doing that for a brace as well. Thanks.

I believe that's exactly what I'll do. I sure would hate for the button to crack or even pull out a chunk of the top. I can visualize that happening at some point and I would be saying, " I should have followed @Bizman62 's suggestion. I hate could of, would of, should of (s). Use Titebond or CA for the support block?

Thanks amigo.

Ron

Edited September 6, 2020 by RonMay

[Bizman62]

20 minutes ago, RonMay said:

Use Titebond or CA for the support block?

With CA there'd be less hassle with clamping. Also, the screw will keep the block in place, should the glue joint fail which it shouldn't.

Oh, and the Great Grammar Nazi inside me tells it should be "could've, would've, should've" instead of "of" although they sound the same.

[RonMay]

I've been cleaning the binding on the back and this is the reason cleaning the binding is taking so long. It's very tedious and if not for my music that I listen to while doing this I'd probably go crazy.

Cleaning the binding.

 

Ron

[RonMay]

Just a little update. I'm almost finished with all of the binding on the sides of the sound board and back. Next will be the horizontal part of the binding. That should go a lot faster.

I also found another crack on the lower bout close to the bottom. It's pretty minor but I'm going to have to make a dowel brace and a couple of supports to be able try to flatten that small area out before gluing. The only problem with that idea is I can't reach it with my hands. Not even close.

I was thinking of the drilling a small hole and using a thread kind of thing to flatten it and add some support. I've seen a couple of videos on that and such a tool could be easily made since I have some new tuning machines that I can't use because of they won't fit the holes already in the head stock. But I really don't want to drill any holes.

I'm sort of rethinking the finish and maybe I'll lightly sand the finish down to get some of the superficial cracks out of the finish. But I still have not decided if I just want to oil it up with linseed oil and call that done.

I think it might depend on how much sanding it's going to take to remove the finish cracks or at least diminish them some what.

 

Ron

 

[Bizman62]

Would it be possible to sneak a T shaped piece inside the guitar and turn it so that it pushes the low area from the inside? Sort of a dowel with a handle if you get what I mean. A swiveled one might be even easier to push through the sound hole if the joint is strong enough to withstand the turning forces. That would also allow for a wider top for the T. Guess some drawing is required...

[RonMay]

@Bizman62, that's a very doable idea. I was making it more complicated in my mind with sort of a ? shaped cut out piece of plywood but your idea would work much better and also much simpler tool to make.

I might even have a telescoping id gage for inside measurements of things.

But if I don't then your idea will come real handy.

ID gage

 

Thanks.

 

Ron

[RonMay]

I finally reached the point of being finished with all of the cleaning the binding by completing the "horizontal" surface  of the back and sound board.

 

 

 

 

Next will be a crack in the bottom bout that I found while cleaning the binding. But I don't know if I should fix the brace on the bottom bout or the crack first. I'm thinking the brace first might be the smart choice.

 

 

Ron

 

[ScottR]

14 hours ago, RonMay said:

I'm thinking the brace first might be the smart choice.

I agree, I think. If fixing the brace closes the crack, you may have to do them at the same time.

SR