Saddle distance

[Bizman62]

When you've finished your need-to-do list I suggest you to send the link to this thread to Mr. Rosa!

[RonMay]

That would be fun. He did tutor me in what, how and why to do stuff.

Ron

[RonMay]

I also glued some soft leather to the inside of the tail piece to protect the guitar bottom from scratches or damage when I use this to intonate the guitar.

I'll just lay some leather down between the sound board and tailpiece for the part of it that sits on the top.

Ron

 

 

 

[RonMay]

 

I decided to put leather on the string end. I wanted it to be nice and tidy, but the super glue had other ideas.

The important thing is that it will protect the finish of the guitar.

 

Ron

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by RonMay

[RonMay]

I went to the local guitar shop (Guitar Center) and another instrument store (Melhearts Music Center) here in town figuring that going to the source would be easier and faster then trying online. I was wrong. Neither place had tuning machines or saddles that would work on this ol' girl. So, it's back to shopping online.

I think I'm going with a Tusq saddle. Which brings me to a question. Since I'm going to be locating the bridge / saddle with intonation would a  plain saddle be better than a compensated one?  Sweetwater has both in the 3/32 slot thickness.  Bare in mind that I think the original bridge location might be about 1/8 of an inch flat (further away from the nut) than the scale measurement gives, measuring from nut to 12th fret and from 12th fret to saddle.

The compensated one comes the closest to the fitting the slot length wise and the plain one would leave a 1/32 gap on both ends while sitting in the middle of the slot. Is that all that important?

Which would be better?

 

Ron

[Bizman62]

I'd double check the intonation first using a full set of new strings. You can make a makeshift bridge "bone" out of a piece of wood, plastic, aluminium or whatever you have at hand as long as the height and the thickness are right. You still can slide the bridge to any location on the top, can't you? The trapeze will also come in handy here.

[RonMay]

@Bizman62, I hadn't thought of using something else for pre-checking intonation position. Yes, I can move the bridge anywhere to find intonation.

Thanks for reminding me.

Ron

[RonMay]

I've also  been thinking, I might go with some 3+3 individual tuning heads too. Like Ratio by Graph Tech.  Does anyone have any experience with installing and or using them? I like the concept of different ratios on the different core size of strings. It does make sense.  Since I will have to drill out the existing post/ peg/stem  holes anyway I might as well go with something middle of the road as far as the price of tuning machines go.

What do y'all think?

 

Ron

[Bizman62]

9 hours ago, RonMay said:

I like the concept of different ratios on the different core size of strings. It does make sense.

It does make sense. The question is, does it really matter. The standard rule is that the tighter the radius the finer the tuning accuracy can be. For what I've learned 14:1 is a bit on the cheap side, 18:1 being of good quality and 21:1 ultra fine. 12:1 to 39:1 is from cheap to ridiculous. For a dropped D tuning you'd have to turn the peg 39 times! And the same when tuning back to E. Accurate? Sure. Worth the time and effort during a gig or rehearsal? Not necessarily. Also, tuning is not just about turning the pegs. As the tension changes some stretching is often required as well to make the string settle down.

Quote

With Ratio®, one turn is about one tone change on all strings, making tuning, retuning and open tunings easier, quicker and more intuitive.

Since when have guitars been tuned by eyeballing the tuner pegs???

If the original tuners are in a really bad shape replacing them is a valid option. If they're open you'll easily see if the gear have worn out. Often a thorough cleaning and oiling is enough especially if you're rather restoring than rebuilding. If they're a pain to use or inaccurate after cleaning, get a new set.

[RonMay]

Thanks @Bizman62. Yeah, the old machines are shot. I appreciate you sharing your logic, knowledge, and experience.

 

Ron

[Bizman62]

I can subscribe the first two, but experience? Not that much, I'm afraid.

[RonMay]

Today I painted the fret board straight edge to take glare out of the stainless steel. For my untrained eyes it puts a contrast on it between the fret board and the straight edge that makes it easier to see the back lit white paper behind it.

First grey primer.

 

Painted with a flat black

 

I tired it and it works well for me.

 

Ron

[RonMay]

Today I've fit the Tusq saddle into the bridge.
It was quite a bit wider than the slot, so I had to sand about .015" off.
I had to take .0075" off of each side so the saddle would still be centered with the way it was originally with the compensation, the manufactured top, so that it would fit centered in the slot. The length was also too long, so that had to be filed and sanded as well to fit the length of the slot.

Did I have to do that, probably not. But keeping it centered like I received it from the factory seemed like a good idea. That's just how my mind works after working about 25 yrs combined in a machine shop and a print shop where keeping things as accurate as possible is important.

The Tusq saddle is a man-made "ivory". It's much denser than bone or antler.

 

Saddle installed.

 

 

 

It's a  slightly snug fit, but easy to get in and out, and it won't fall out on it's own when held upside down. There's also no slop from forward to back, but a tiny bit of open space on the ends. But that's only about .015" and divided by two if it's in the middle, only .0075" per end.

 

Next on the to do list is installing the new tuning heads.

I do have some real cheap ones that I can install on the Honer guitar for practice. The method would be the same but a whole lot less grief if there's an "oh, crap" moment. ['ll work out any procedures there and when it comes time to do the Regal, I'll have a better idea of how to do it.

I have a ream and can take it down slowly until the parts slide in to the new hole.

 

Ron

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by RonMay

[Andyjr1515]

Looks good, @RonMay 

[RonMay]

Thank you @Andyjr1515. It took quite a while using only sandpaper, but it fits really nicely. next time I'm going to make sure I have a grit more abrasive than 400.

 

Ron

[Bizman62]

It is starting to look like your youth companion is going to be a really nice instrument again!

[RonMay]

Yes, indeed. Back then I was a total ROCK STAR! A legend in my own mind.

 

I started the install and I ran into a little problem.

I used the ream and file to make the holes sungly fit the heads.

 

Then I mocked them up to see how they would work.

 

But I ran into a little problem being that with the plate on the back it made the pegs too short , not having enough room for the strings after winding them on .

 

I've decided to take the plate off and use the suggested "alternate method" by the manufacturer. The heads have two locating pins that fit in to the plate that keep it from rotating out of position.

 

Since I'm not using the plate I'm going to drill two holes for these pins and mount the heads flat on the back of the head stock.

 

I'm using the heads to line up the holes before drilling. I'll repeat this process for the rest of the holes as I go. The cracks you see were already there and they are not structural but superficial and do not affect the head stock wings.

 

So far this is the only negative I've found about the Graph Tech Ratio tuning heads. But I can't expect them to anticipate every head stock thickness which was causing the problem.

 

Ron

 

[RonMay]

I finally "got'er done".

They look pretty good. I figured that looking at the old holes that this is the 4th set of tuning machines to go on the ol' girl.  It will most likely be the last ones.

 

 

I guess the next thing will be the bridge. After that I could theoretically string her up and let her sing.

 

Ron

[Bizman62]

So the tuners are designed to replace both the corner screw and the Fender type two pin (at least one size of them) tuners without having to drill extra holes? That's a neat feature!

Speaking of holes and cracks, I'd recommend you to fill the old holes with sticks and glue for structural integrity. For hiding the patches you can then stain the plugs and restore the finish on the back of the headstock as well. Judging by the orange peel it looks like some relacquering has already been done so why not make it look good.

[RonMay]

@Bizman62, I think that is a good idea. I guess any hole is a structural weakness. Once I get it all done, I will do that. 

I don't think it's been re-lacquered. That is some pretty heavy orange peeling going on there though. I think it's one of the things that kept Regal guitars from being a more valued guitar when it was first manufactured. It's a really nice guitar when it comes to design, and tone and even the woods are nice, but the fine touches and details are lacking.

I am going to sand it all over and polish and wax it and I think redoing the head stock would also be in order. I've done so much and come this far it seems like it would be a shame not to.

Ron

 

[mistermikev]

when you say 'got her done' do you mean the whole enchilada?  if so... c'mon now... full body shot aka money shot aka "I'm all done look at the results" shot...

either way that's a sharp bridge and tuners look good.

[RonMay]

@mistermikev, unfortunately the whole enchilada is not yet done.

I am filling the holes with toothpicks and Titebond. I think the crack is deeper than I thought. When I was forcing glue in to the hole I noticed in the hole right next to it, glue rose up and when I removed the brush from the hole the glue went down. Like a bellows. So, I using the water technique, I put some thin CA glue into the crack, wiped off the surface and then just for grins, i clamped it. Then I continued on with the toothpicks and filling the other holes.

 

 

 

Ron

[mistermikev]

right on... I may have jumped the gun.  looking good.

[RonMay]

This is as good as it gets for now. The toothpicks just would not lighten up no matter how little of the Red mahogany I used. I even watered it down with a brush. One application was too light. The next too dark.

I used the semi-chrome polish and then the Renaissance Wax .

This one really shows the shine finish.

Ron

 

[Bizman62]

That's as good as you can get it with stain only. The toothpicks are end grain so they shift light in a different manner no matter how close you get the colour. The only way to hide them better is to apply semi-transparent paint after staining - tinted clearcoat or something like that. Or even solid black paint to match the top side. Especially the latter would require using some sort of filler to solidify the end grain of the sticks, otherwise you'd see small sunk rings when the paint has properly dried.

As you can see even the manufacturer wasn't too critical in making the headstock uniform, the wings are pretty visible as well especially when the light comes from a certain angle. Most likely the wing blocks don't share the same grain direction as the neck. That's a common "feature" even among high priced brands.

A simple thing to try is to use translucent nail varnish on the tooth picks, they're available even in mahogany red or some similar looking shades. Let the history show but solidify the patches.