Re-finnishing / re-fretting Epiphone Les Paul

[Rob1299]

Hi Everyone,

I'm obviously new here. Need some help.

I bought an Epiphone Les Paul (see attached photo) for $50 with a case. Surprisingly, the pots and switch are good, but the finish is hideous, and the frets need to be at least leveled and dressed (buzzing). I've never done bodywork of any kind on any guitar. But I don't want to pay for work on this guitar. I just bought a brand new American Performer Jazzmaster from Sweetwater, and my wife said I'm not allowed spend any more money on guitars unless I do the work myself. I really want to re-finish it. I can sneak out and pay someone to level/dress the frets for $100. But I need to do the stripping and refinishing (and replace the tuners) myself.  My son is an amazing artist, and I'm going to let him design something crazy on it once it's stripped.

I saw this article: https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-instrument-finishing-and-finish-repair/how-to-strip-a-modern-poly-guitar-finish.html

But it has binding on the edges. Am I going to have problems? I'm afraid the heat gun will cause the binding to come off, and I'm afraid I'll regret it. Also, will the binding cause problems when I'm refinishing it? And how likely is it that I can re-fret it if I pay someone to level and dress the new frets?

[Bizman62]

That's a nice looking guitar for the price, looks like almost in mint condition! The top isn't my style either...

If you're worried about the heat, don't use it near the edges. Scrapers are very good for removing paint so all you'd need for the edges is some elbow grease.

If you're not going to change the colour of the bottom and sides, the binding can actually be your best friend! Normally making the seam of old and new poly invisible would be a mission impossible but the binding should perfectly hide it.

If the frets are in a decent condition leveling and recrowning them is the only thing needed. By decent condition I mean that there's no deep grooves on the most played frets. Less than halfways through is still fixable! It's not too difficult to do it yourself either. Refretting is needed only after there's almost no metal left above the fretboard level.

[Rob1299]

I don't think it's in mint condition. The tuners slip really badly. The reason I was thinking about a refret is I'm not very good, and I have brain injuries that are probably limiting my ceiling. I'm not sure, but I wonder if frets being too low might make it harder for me to fret bar chords. Th chip on the side... I'm guessing I can just fill that in.

If I scrape the paint near the binding, how do I keep from damaging the binding? I was thinking I could run a razor blade between the front finish and the binding before I scrape.

 

 

[Bizman62]

The chipping on the side didn't show on the first two images but that's a minor damage. Some dye and nail varnish could fix that. Other than that the guitar doesn't have any major belt buckle rash on the back and the top looks intact as well. Mint is too much said but it looks like it hasn't been played much.

Do the frets have dents or deep worn areas? If not, looking at the overall condition they may well be in their factory condition. The fret height can be anywhere from a short .032" to a tall .060".

To start the refinishing process you should detach all electronics and mask the areas you don't want to touch. If it's just the top you want to refinish, you can scrape and sand the edge of the binding as much as is needed, leaving the sides untouched. When sanding and scraping the binding area take note of the working directions in order not to pull the binding off.

[Rob1299]

Soooooo.... I took out all of the hardware and electronics, including the tuners, and then I realized....

The '96 Squire Strat gets a bad rap for being made of "plywood." I just sold one of those for $125 after I copper shielded the electronics cavity. It is nowhere near as junky as this Epiphone Les Paul. Looking through the holes where the pots had been revealed that if I scraped off the finish, the entire electronics cavity would be exposed from the front. In other words, it looks like the routed the electronics and switch cavity all the way through and then laid the top on as a solid, 1/16" veneer piece.

It also appears that the "wood" is actually pressboard, molded around a plastic internal frame. In other words, the inside of the pickup cavity feels like plastic - like they molded a plastic frame and then glued a molded pressboard frame on to it glued a pre-made plastic top on top. There also does not appear to be a neck joint - suggesting that the neck is a part of that "mold." I am shocked.

I'm putting it back together and selling it for $200 to a beginner. The switch and pots are all good.

[curtisa]

Probably more likely that the body and neck are 'real' timber and the top is an MDF laminate applied to the body. There seems to be photographic evidence to suggest that Epiphone have been known to do it in the past:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/epiphone-pauls-mdf-tops.515891/

There will be a neck joint in there, but in true LP fashion it will probably be glued in.

Although I do note that in your photos at the top of this thread that there doesn't appear to be much of an Epiphone logo on the headstock, and the fret markers are unlike anything I've seen on an LP. Any possibility you've got a knockoff of an Epiphone LP on your hands?

For the $50 you paid for it you'd have to decide what it's worth to you to do the work you're describing to sell it on again. A mark up of 4x what you paid for it originally without changing anything seems a little bit optimistic, particularly if it still has issues with fret buzz. You wouldn't be tempted to keep it just to experiment with?

edit: Ah - Epiphone 'E' series, probably the Les Paul Nuclear Extreme model:

http://www.epiphonewiki.org/index/E-Series.php

[Bizman62]

Well then... If you want to repaint the front, just sand it matte and spray new paint onto it.

For reselling leave the top as is (someone may like it!) and learn to do the fret job after which you can sell it.

[mistermikev]

i remember these guitars... and the 'crackle finish' craze.  don't care for that color... but always kind of like the crackle finishes esp on some of the jackson/esp.  They (epi crackle) have sort of an underground following and get $250-450 in decent condition.  Might want to re-think the refin and consider selling it on evilbay and buying something more to your liking... just sayin'.  Someone somewhere is bound to love that color scheme (perhaps a stryper fan).  If you refin it - it will be worth much less when done.

all that said... I wouldn't go near the binding with heat as the cheaper epis tend to have thin/chinese binding that will melt if you look at it wrong.  I wouldn't do stripper either as that will def make short work of binding.  The only way I see you getting that finish off w/o ruining the binding is with good old fashioned sanding.  And I suspect that finish is going to be really thick.  Further, I wouldn't expect the top under that to look nice.

just one knucklehead's o.

[Rob1299]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:48 AM, mistermikev said:

i remember these guitars... and the 'crackle finish' craze.  don't care for that color... but always kind of like the crackle finishes esp on some of the jackson/esp.  They (epi crackle) have sort of an underground following and get $250-450 in decent condition.  Might want to re-think the refin and consider selling it on evilbay and buying something more to your liking... just sayin'.  Someone somewhere is bound to love that color scheme (perhaps a stryper fan).  If you refin it - it will be worth much less when done.

all that said... I wouldn't go near the binding with heat as the cheaper epis tend to have thin/chinese binding that will melt if you look at it wrong.  I wouldn't do stripper either as that will def make short work of binding.  The only way I see you getting that finish off w/o ruining the binding is with good old fashioned sanding.  And I suspect that finish is going to be really thick.  Further, I wouldn't expect the top under that to look nice.

just one knucklehead's o.

Agreed. But there is fret buzz. And you can see the two cracks in the finish. Do you still think I could get $250 for it?

[mistermikev]

22 minutes ago, Rob1299 said:

Agreed. But there is fret buzz. And you can see the two cracks in the finish. Do you still think I could get $250 for it?

def couldn't hurt to try.  honestly the finish damage is pretty minimal imo.  fret buzz... well that could be fixed pretty easily if you know how.  

[Bizman62]

As @mistermikev said, fix the fret buzz. Start with the easy things. First, find out where the buzz is by playing every fret and every string. And open strings as well. Also tap the neck to find out if the truss rod hasn't been tightened at all. In that case tighten it just enough to stop rattling.

If it seems to buzz most everywhere but the truss rod doesn't rattle the action may be too low. In that case loosen the truss rod by 1/4 turn or less. If that does the trick, good! If the action is very low you can also raise the bridge. If you have to make the action crazy high to fix the buzzing, continue.

If it buzzes only on certain frets and certain strings, the next upper fret is most likely high. Check if the fret has popped up by trying to sneak the corner of a paper under the fret. If so, support the neck properly and tap the fret in place using a block of hard wood and a hammer. Recheck.

Only if none of the above eliminates the buzz it's time for a fret leveling and recrowning job.