Jump to content

Frankenstrat. I couldn't not.


Recommended Posts

Well, there's your reasoning.

I won't delve too deeply into the storied history of Frankie other than where it has affected my design and build decisions, might explain certain things and the like. Losing EVH put a fair amount into perspective that I took for granted in my playing or simply didn't realise I did, and hell, he was pretty much one of the original tinkerers and innovators along with luminaries like Brian May. He's the reason we're here and changed guitar to the point that forums like this exist.

There's still two ways I could go with this build. One would be a '78 Frankie in the VH1 black and white stripe era, reliced (clean just doesn't look right) post-tour. Essentially this is a down-the-line Strat build with a humbucker hacked in. The other is the more recognisable '79 restripe with red over the black and white. Lots of photos exist of Frankie in her current state with 40yrs of mileage which could make it more of a relic adventure than a Strat build.

The differences are in the neck and hardware, as the body was consistent since day one albeit with modifications, repairs, wear and cosmetic changes. The VH1 I'd want to aim for had a birdseye Maple-on-Maple neck with a more Fender outline to the headstock, brass nut and non-locking Fender vintage trem. Frankie's final form ended up with an OFR, and different birdseye neck with a locking nut.

Both necks were heel-adjust, meaning that to be closer to the we'll need a traditional style single-acting compression rod. Whilst using a straight-channel rod is an option (authenticity and "correctness" can get silly very quickly) I do find that rods which are an integral part of a neck produced a better end result than rods which simply sit within a neck. It does make the neck more sensitive to moisture and movement since it's always under a balance of forces, but that's the tradeoff between a lively neck and one that is tame.

The body is straight up Ash. Nothing fancy, as it just doesn't need to be. The original was a second anyway, so hunting for special magic Ash is an exercise in futility. I'll be doing most of the work on CNC both for the absolute irony and because that's my focus these days. There's a few challenges that CNC offers a relatively simple Fender-style build, but hell, that's part of the game.

I'll be sticking to either a PAF clone or my trusty Seymour Duncan Custom Custom for either option. Trem-spacing the pickup (which was never an option for EVH back then) will be done since again, navel-gazing authenticity is not the objective. Either pickup retains the dynamic qualities required, and I think that a straight unmodified PAF was never used by EVH beyond maybe the yard party days prior to VH1. I'm 95% sure we'll be SDCC with this.

Pictures will be more forthcoming as I document this. I'm currently still needing to buy a few key items of hardware such as the tremolo and pickup. I've a bit of design work to lock down for the truss rod, which itself will be a little more out of convenience than original by any stretch. Likely a peened and locked barrel nut anchor under the 1st fret, curved channel and cross adjuster at the heel. I just need to decide how far toward the back of the neck I want this to curve (dependent on final profile) plus the location of the adjuster.

Since there'll be a lot of CNC work in this one, it offers the opportunity to dial in a compound radius. I've already done a test piece in Birch from 12" at the headstock to 16" at the bridge. This part will need a little additional consideration if we're going the OFR route since the radius is 10-12" out of the gate. I'd like this to hit 16"-20" if at all possible. The vintage Fender bridge can easily be adjusted to suit any given radius of course.

Questions and discussions are always welcome. I'm unsure if I missed some key points here, however that seems to be a pretty straight project brief.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well treated to a prostheta build... looking fwd to it.  everyone thinks about building an evh at some point I assume... and I've def thought about it.  for me... the single pickup baretta variation he used on panama video is my fav... but not sure I could build one w/o adding a neck pickup and ruining it!  the mm evh being a close second for me.  the frankenstrat, the yellow/black strat, all have a place in my heart.  the shark prob is the pinnacle of tone guitar... but lets face it - no one wants to build that monstrosity!  I suspect there will be a lot of cool things to see in your build and I will follow along while drooling. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks man, I'll do my best to provide! I've been making noises about this for some time now, so this morning I figured it was a good time to get clacking.

There's a lot of source materials around on the Interwerbs, especially the Smithsonian exhibition photos. That shows Frankie how she was a year or two back. A couple of channels on YouTube also document the various aspects of Frankie down to paint types, how it was masked and all that deep dive(r down) stuff. If I go the RWB route, these will be useful background.

I've decided that the body will be sealed with shellac rather than the usual sanding sealer or nuclear-proof Fullerplast sort of embalming. This is somewhat important since the sealer will be visible with any heavy relicing. I don't think it'll be a dealbreaker by any means, and will at least wear naturally itself. I'm going to do some test pieces of Ash to see how it reacts to Iron(III) Acetate. This is usually used to react with the tannins in woods to blacken them, however with woods where the tannins are relatively absent it does a good job of simulating years of grime and oxidation. Alternatives would be to use things like oversteeped black tea or even dye washes, but I find those to be very artificial. Iron(III) Acetate actually converts the wood chemically in a similar way to harsh life. I'm unsure whether to apply this over the entire body prior to sealing or after relicing; subsequent wear and damage would reveal fresh unaffected wood. Maybe both are a good option, so let's see how the test looks.

I've been playing around in Rhino to see how best to place the truss rod. I'm not going for a Fender profile/thickness spec as such, but I'd like to aim a bit chunkier than my #1 Ibanez S1540. That has a Wizard Prestige neck that specs in at 18mm around the 1st fret and 20mm at the 12th. That's a couple of mm less than your average Strat at 1st. The main concern with this is how the rod places within the neck of course. The M6 barrel nuts that I have which I intend on using in the truss rod are a good 13mm in length/depth. Make any noises about a neck being 18mm at the 1st fret and you're easily talking trouble....18mm minus your 5-6mm for the fingerboard and yay, there's your 12-13mm right there. The other option is to use a small rectangular stub, but they tend to be wider with the same sort of issue. In all honesty I think it's best to reduce the length of the barrel nut to 9mm, which is about the most reasonable length that it can be left at....2mm either side of the 6mm rod itself.

Let me drag out some pics of what I've come up with....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to litter your thread with too much but when you were talking about neck profile... I'm working on a neck doing the orig evh/axis profile and the odd thing about it to me is how it sort of 'bulges' out around the 12th fret.  not a linear/gradual change.  Using a number of dif references for profile so I'm sure this is how it is but never noticed playing an axis.  My point is eddies odd contribution to neck profiles shouldn't be understated - afaik he pretty much started the whole asym profile thing and that neck, while nothing like a wizard, is easily as comfy despite being much thicker.  eddie was a wizard.

tanin - yes, the min you said b4 vs after was thinking about the lines it would create doing it after.  my vote is for b4 but I know nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is where I figure I can push the neck. Short of using a lower overall profile rod such as an aluminium U-channel, this seems about right. Rhino 7 appears to be having issues antialiasing in OpenGL right now for me, so my CAD might look a bit balls until I can resolve this.

Given a neck thickness of 19mm at the 1st and 22mm at 12th, the rod can have a built-in deflection of 4mm. This is based on the peened barrel nut method described. The adjustment nut emerges right at the point where the neck and fingerboard seams meet. This was by intention. It can be lower, however that comes at the cost of less pre-tension in the rod and/or it running closer to the back of the neck. At current this is a very fine 3mm. Thankfully, compression rods don't physically bear on the neck in the same way as double-acting rods so that 3mm is generous. I could dial back the deflection by a mm, which is still an option. I'm open to discussion on this up until I make wood fly!

Otherwise, the neck is a relatively standard 19mm+6mm, the nearest Metric round numbers to the 1/4"+3/4" which I think "real" Fender necks were based around.

cad1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

I don't want to litter your thread with too much but when you were talking about neck profile... I'm working on a neck doing the orig evh/axis profile and the odd thing about it to me is how it sort of 'bulges' out around the 12th fret.  not a linear/gradual change.  Using a number of dif references for profile so I'm sure this is how it is but never noticed playing an axis.  My point is eddies odd contribution to neck profiles shouldn't be understated - afaik he pretty much started the whole asym profile thing and that neck, while nothing like a wizard, is easily as comfy despite being much thicker.  eddie was a wizard.

tanin - yes, the min you said b4 vs after was thinking about the lines it would create doing it after.  my vote is for b4 but I know nothing.

 

I'm still somewhere in the middle of where to go with this. I could go for a Wolfgang-ish assymetrical profile on the back of the neck, roughing it in using a loft from 1st to 12th. It does open out a little bit of complication re: truss rod, so unless the depth of the assymetrical profile were to be fatter at its greatest extents it could run the outside a bit close to the rod than I'd like. Again, I could reduce the built-in tension to the rod a little. It's all possible and I'm happy to table any ideas to see where they could be taken. Everything will be described in full from methodology to design and making chips so people can take what they can from this build.

What do you think the source of the bulge is? An assymetrical profile resolving to a symmetrical heel? The leading edge must curve from one side to the middle in some way.

I think before and after sounds sensible. I agree; afterwards only seems a little ephemeral since most grime, sweat and hell gets into the wood almost everywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, here's the body I threw together on the CNC a few weeks back. I might put together another Ash blank and do a second body depending on how I feel about the arm contour. I had a sneaking suspicion that I milled the perimeter with a 1mm offset for a finishing pass, however I was mistaken; I'd done this to the test neck which is currently 0,5mm larger in profile. I can part this from the surrounding material and see how I feel about the forearm contour. I'll do the belly cut and rear rout manually. I can't be bothered to make a vacuum workholding jig for minor jobs like this....

20210125_170503.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll be departing from original by using my favourite standard Gotoh SG381 chrome tuners. Schallers of the right type would be expensive, and in my view, somewhat of an excessive attention to detail.

Hey, anybody got a good line on original CRL Tele 3-way? They seem to cost an arm and a dick for no good reason....and I doubt that I will be able to source a red (phenolic?) version either! Obviously if I go VH1 this is a non-issue....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...three notes.

One: I found it hilarious that you're using a CNC to do an Eddie...

I mean, the guy probably used a frickin' butter knife, spit and swearing to route his guitars (early days, y'know).

 

Two: Strange story. I never learned any VH, it's not 'really' my style, tho I did see them on their first tour (1978).

Funny girl story to go with that but never mind for now...

My point is about the Custom Custom.

I bought one many, many years ago used and tossed it in the pickup drawer for a few years.

Didn't really even 'know' what it was supposed to represent, it was a cheap, good deal (probably $40.00 used if I know me)

So the day came when I had a build done and was looking for what pickups I wanted to use in it.

And decided to pull the CC out for the bridge and a Bill Lawrence 8k job for the neck.

So I get everything installed, its a brand new build so I'm checking and fiddling and adjusting everything.

I finally get it operational, plug it in, and give it its first power chord whack.

And, it sounded Exactly Like Eddie Van Halen!

I wasn't expecting it, I wasn't looking for it, and I never whacked a pickup in expectation that it would 'sound like' somebody.

It just came out of nowhere, but it was really obvious How Much it sounded like VH. So Go figure.

They obviously did something right there, overwound w/ A2 magnet.

 

Additional note: Before that, he used an Ibanez Super 70 (was stock) in his Ibanez Destroyer before he chainsawed it.

Those old Super 70's use A8 magnets, which is a really strong magnet, and a rather rare choice for back in the day (go Ibanez!).

So, I bought a used hollowbody guitar once that had a replaced neck pickup.

A crazy job, it was a mini-humbucker with some old Japanese chrome cover from some other pickup slapped over it which didn't really fit.

So one day I pulled this thing apart trying to figure out what I was looking at.

And what I found was what I had was an Ibanez Super 70 MIN-HUM! A8 magnet and all, with gold polepieces.

My research led me to conclude it had been part of a George Bensen Ibanez model from back in the day.

You canNOT find any information on an Ibanez Super 70 mini-humbucker, anywhere on the net.

If you do, its probably something I posted. I still have that pickup. So...just another Eddie-related off-topic 'my funny Ibanez pickup story'.

 

Three: Whenever I want to do a 'sig' build, I approach it completely different than most people do (but hey, I'm like that)

I always shoot for who the person was (their personality) and their sound, rather than copy the exact/specific guitar they used.

Like, I did a Michael Schenker V, and although it Sounds like early MS, it looks nothing like any V he ever used.

If I did an Eddie, it 'might' have stripes, or I might turn the stripes into curves, but maybe keep the colors and the 'spirit' of his guitar, if you follow...

But for whatever reason, I never wanted to own a guitar that looked like someone else's famous guitar.

 

A good example is Roy Buchanan (who IS up my alley style-wise)

Everyone wants to build a butterscotch blonde blackguard Tele, just like Roy's Nancy.

That man is one of my absolute guitar heroes, but I would never want a butterscotch blond blackguard Tele.

With all the Tele's I've built, I certainly could have by now.

But he was a really dark, brooding, loner of a personality, and I would want to build a guitar like 'that'.

A guitar that appears dark, brooding, ominous somehow, because that was his real spirit.

OK, enough from me, Build Away Then with your CNC! <I kid, of course>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers Drak. I find it hilarious that I'm using quarter of a million's worth of 5-axis CNC to build a guitar that cost dollars to make. Just one of the toolholders costs more than what EVH spent on the first body/neck! I know that Fender/EVH won't be breaking out the butter knives any time soon....so somebody has to overbuild something poorly to show them how it's done....hahaha

CNC is the perfect compliment to my strong point which is the desktop work, and it's why I'm doing the job I now do. Working a machine that I can dial in to a few hundredths of a mm (less than a thou) is a calm discipline, and provides an outlet to centre my generally undisciplined head 😉 I suppose that an industrious controlled approach is in line with Leo Fender's part of that DNA, the other half being Gibson's haphazard scattershot ballpark near-enough shotgun-barn wind-blows first-thing-Monday last-thing-Friday random inventive unique good poor fractious high-art/unknown-standards one. Eddie's intent of cross-pollinating the DNA of a Fender and a Gibson is perfect in Frankie. I rest my case. *bows*

Ah, who am I kidding eh? I just want a Frankenstrat, and I'm not going to afford an EVH '78 Eruption relic any day soon, plus the standard production "striped" series don't cut it in my book. CNC can rubber stamp most of the work, but the real work is by eye and hand.
https://www.evhgear.com/gear/shape/strat/78-eruption-relic/5107878000
I think that's the route I'm going to go anyway. I've considered whether a VH1 Frankie could be up-downgraded to the final form subsequently, and it's possible depending on how I deal with the black non-paint tape lines. In that respect I'll break with established "oh, that's so accurate!" tradition and make the burnt birdseye RWB Frankie neck for a VH1 Frankie body. Such rebel.

There's so much history written in that guitar's lines that a simple striped guitar "a la" doesn't quite cut the mustard. Same as how those striped series guitars don't speak to me. If anything, those are the real Farginstrats.

The Custom Custom took a while to grow on me. Maybe ten years. I was too deeply ingrained in the "bridge must be high output" thing, and I changed when I started playing a rig that helps express dynamic feel. The old thing of "tone being in your fingers" is true when it comes when your gear blinding you from it. You can't learn to feel something your rig is incapable of delivering, and my CC was sat in there being an untapped marvel. Between the Custom and other SDs that are the same wind with different mags, the A2 CC is right in the zone. I flirted with the idea of a PAF or even the '78, but I think that's just me allowing room for doubt.

I get that a lot of EVH fans obsess over the details such as the mystery blue paint (guitar leant on a not-dry stage banner) on the back and the like. The retroreflectors are a funny one because they only reflect light back at the source regardless of angle, not out at the audience selectively. I bet the lighting guys enjoyed that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing of value to add and don't want to trash up your thread.

Love the idea of @Prostheta carving out a guitar with a butter knife and spit.

Every time I see the back of Frankie, I think how much i would hate to have those reflectors on the back of my guitar grinding into my hip bone.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Between the Custom and other SDs that are the same wind with different mags, the A2 CC is right in the zone.

I flirted with the idea of a PAF or even the '78, but I think that's just me allowing room for doubt.

Like I said, I wasn't expecting the Eddie sound to pop out of that thing like it did.

I felt weird since the guitar was a TOM/stoptail and took it out sometime after that, expecting that I would put it in a Floyd one day.

Then, I think one day I put a UOA5 in it, and it's been back in the drawer awaiting its new home.

I have, like, six different Floyd builds in progress, haha!

Of course, I was just kidding about the CNC, you go on with your bad self then.

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses and where and how you land it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Landing it is what I'm worst at, Drak. I tend to hit a point where I know I have one of two choices; continue and drive head first into a problem or hang back (a few years) and wait until I am more able to overcome it. Or able to forget.

No, I think the only possible issue with this one is cash. Floyds don't grow on trees, however Gotoh make a very tasty relic bridge that would work nicely here. Unsure whether aftermarket brass blocks are a straight fit, however I can always make one instead if I even swap it out at all.

So today I ran up another bit of Birch to do a test run on the CNC. The objective was to take a sized blank thicknessed at 19,4mm and do the truss rod slot, adjustment hole and anchor point in one series of processes.

My initial approach was the export parts of my Rhino drawing out to DXF files which the CAD/CAM software can use for me to generate toolpaths. Perimeter trimming, all fine. I hit a contour loop which stops the CNC dead, but that was easily fixed by setting the start/end points either side of that loop. Win. The truss rod route was less easy to import via DXF; the pre-processor mangled the parts of the curve which messed all sorts of things up. Boo. The solution was to manually draw the start and end points of the rod rout 25mm in from the heel end to 450mm along the neck. Using an arc with a radius of 6500mm generates a deep rout with approximately 4mm of deflection. 12750mm brings that out to around 2mm. 50s Fenders dialled in something silly like 6-7mm which I think I'll stay shy of; 6mm of steel as opposed to 3/16ths is an increase of about 60% in cross-section. Pulling that into tension will exert a lot of force. As such, I can get away with 3mm which should allow me to make the neck more svelte and to my preferred feel.

 

As you'd expect, the neck fits out of the gate. There's a 0,5mm perimeter but I think I cut the body before I properly calibrated the cutters, hence the interference fit. It should be a little looser.

20210221_181937.jpg

 

The 10mm heel adjustment "access" was designed to fall just underneath the fingerboard glueline. I targetted this as a 26mm deep round pocketing operation in 4mm steps (25mm adjuster plus washer) using an 8mm endmill set at an angle of 1,9°.

20210221_182239.jpg

 

Easy fit. There seems to be a lot of fibre tearing on the endgrain with this endmill, so I'll have to look at this before I commit to the actual workpiece. The small lip on the bottom is due to me doing the perimeter cut to 1mm shy of Z=0 and trimming on the router table. The bit was balls, so it left an oversized remnant.

20210221_182426.jpg

 

So this is the anchor. Again, a 10mm round pocketing operation set at an angle of 1,9°. The barrel nut needs reducing in length as discussed. The rod channel extends a little further than the rod to allow for the peened end. I might extend the rod another 10mm in length yet, and bring both the anchor and rod just beyond the middle of the 1st fret. The rod rout was cut using an uncalibrated 6mm straight endmill which I am sure has been resharpened, and hence is less than 6mm diameter. I cut the channel using a centric path, so this is slightly undersize right now. Just something I need to bear in mind.

20210221_182319.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The truss rod adjuster nut has 20mm of threaded depth, so given 10mm of initial engagement and moving the anchor out another 10mm, we have 445mm of rod length. I could probably get away with 5mm of engagement for a 440mm length rod, however I don't imagine any neck would need 15mm/15 turns of crankable adjustment, especially over a 6mm steel section.

If I remember tomorrow, I'll locate an M6 die and get this threaded up. 10mm at the anchor end and 20mm at the heel end is more than enough.

I also filed down the barrel nut to 9,5mm so it sits just below the glueing surface.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This could all be done with templates and hand routers very easily. If I were using that approach this build, I'd do the truss rod channel whilst the blank was still square. The ideal setup is two adjustable fences on a palm router, one fence either side of the blank. Creating the curve for the rod can be done in steps by microadjusting the router cut depth half a mm at a time and marking out along the workpiece where each step begins and ends. Having a bunch of 0,5mm picks stacked between your microadjuster post and depth stop allows easy laying out of your steps. Just check that 10x picks measure out at 5mm or whatever you decide to do.

Drawing it out in CAD, then working out intersections and depths makes this easy. The rod doesn't care that the channel is slightly stepped, and neither does the neck. Therefore you shouldn't either.

stepped rod channel.jpg

 

The real trick is drilling the adjuster hole at the right angle. For what it's worth, it can be eyeballed as being a little off level. Slop in the hole itself will generally allow for inaccuracy, and as long as it meets the rod channel at the right point it'll work. The key is just getting the centre point right and using a sharp lip and spur bit. The anchor is easy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you got me thinking about my own words last night.

If I were to build an 'Eddie' in the way I described 'I do', how would I do it?

And I came up with an 'Eddie-fied' version of this grain-filled theme, this is a Red Oak body, w/ big pores.

What I would do is do the body red (instead of black, of course)

Then add black and white stripes in similar patterns to his taped off thang.

But the colors would only show on the grain pattern, sort of like I did here, get it?

So it would absolutely 'incite the spirit' of Ed, any VH fan would recognize the color scheme and pattern.

But it would be obviously completely different.

Was just daydreaming and imagining how I would approach something like that.

8LUJ3fn.jpg

 

871745bc71a55eaa2d589462efedb033.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that's very cool as it stands, Drak. I'm not that good at finishing (hey, neither was Ed!) so I guess that this is your particular forté and how you'd be best set to express the concept. It would work, definitely. I'm satisfied by seeing technical challenges or puzzles and completing or solving them. Not that Fender-style guitars offer huge amounts of challenge in general.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Invader Zim said:

Do you have your quarter yet?

quarter.jpg

 

This all hinges on whether I go for the full final form Frankie or the VH1 black and white version. I'm leaning towards the latter since it gives me amply opportunity to degrade the body naturally before I do the second painting sessions. Equally, relicing an instrument quickly always ends up looking unnatural. As far as the coin goes, I might use a hobo nickel or maybe a 1976 coin of some description if I do. I'm happy to veer from the accepted norms there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, komodo said:

Little curved rail jig would do the truss slot with a small router.
 

Let me know if you need a 1971 quarter. I'm sure I could find one pretty easily.

truss.JPG

 

Thanks man. I'll take you up on that if/when the time comes. I think I'm going VH1 for a while until the instrument is bedded in and grubby enough that I think it can go full on '79.

Curved jigs are the gold standard for rod routes, but often I think of "how can this be done with zero jig making facility?". That said, bending a strip of plywood and screwing it against the edge of a piece of MDF or other plywood isn't exactly rocket science. I think that having a router with an edge guide or two is a real winner for many reasons though, but mostly for jobs beyond guitars.

Hey, love your Roubo man! That's a full-on sliding deadman and set of holdfasts as well. You're not messing about there. Mine's more like a worksurface than a fully functional bench even after these many years now....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought “ha yeah”.

And then “well, actually I don’t even sort of have space for that.”

And then “I mean, the Workmate folds up, has been through hell and back and never complained”

And then “you know what? I don’t think so.”

If I had a bigger shop space, I’d ditch the Workmate for the Roubo faster than (insert your favorite faster than idiom here).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...