Frankenstrat. I couldn't not.

[Prostheta]

I don't think I'm too bothered about cleanliness. Hitting the region of the street next to the bar five blocks from the ballpark is good. Basically, a sealer coat over oxidised wood, then a black coat followed by a white coat. The choice of paint is what I am considering. Acrylic will be always-soft and maybe less "chippy" when relicing, 2k might be very chippy and too hard to "wear" easily. I'm thinking 2k for the speed of catalysed drying though, as that has its advantages for me. Pulling tape will be even more critical here, however since those tape edges will be subject to subsequent relicing, maybe not so important. Following the rough chronological treatment of the original and then extending that beyond '78 seems the target.

I also managed to vintage-correctly torque off the heads of two trem screws, because you know, that's what Eddie would have done. Right? Right? Right. Totally. 

[Drak]

Lets see, a few more things off the top of my head, feel free to disregard everything if its not needed in your case.

When the first color is applied (in my case black), I let it dry and fine sand it until its baby-smooth perfect.

There's no room to 'fix' anything if the substrate is bumpy or has imperfections of any kind.

So, in my case, the black is fine-sanded absolutely perfectly 100% smooth before I even think about the white.

The white is getting laid down on an absolutely 100% perfectly smooth and sanded (black) finish.

I usually use a new 320 Abralon pad followed by a used 320 Abralon pad, those are my two 'finish finesse' pads.

Also, any pigmented color you use means most of the color is sitting at the bottom of the can.

Pigments are different than dyes, pigments are solids that need to be constantly stirred up to keep them in solution.

Even in aerosol cans, a lot of it is sitting at the bottom of the can. More than you might imagine.

And it may need far more shaking than you might imagine if you could see inside of it.

To really invigorate the pigment into the solution, otherwise you wind up with a weakened spray.

And people who use aerosols don't typically sawzall their cans open to see all the pigment sitting in the bottom.

But I do, as I'm mixing from cans, and can see how much sits at the bottom until really thoroughly stirred (or shaken).

Pigments (of which all whites, and some blacks are pigments) are solids, and take some serious agitation to really get them dissolved thoroughly.

And when doing a black/white thing, you want to use only as much as is needed.

To reduce the difference in height between the black and the white once you pull tape and are ready for clearcoats.

Because any difference will need to be sanded equal before the end of the road, so the less, the better.

Which means, you want as much white per coat as you can get out of your can, or gun, or whatever.

[Prostheta]

All good correct information Drak. I prefer to warm up my aerosols in water for ten-fifteen after a good shake, and then continue to do so after that warming. It reduces spitting and lowers viscosity for better spray quality. This all said, I'm aiming for a somewhat specific level of imperfection. I don't know what EVH used for his black and white paints, but anecdotal information says that he used a Schwinn red bike paint (two stage; pearl under and red over). I can't say for certain what paints would be available to kids back in the mid-70s, but I'm guessing nothing too far from typical plastic-in-a-can Rustoleum or equivalents. I don't even believe he used any clearcoats, and it's known that his white paint was significantly ridged from the tape, likely from it being gaffer or console tape and not painter's tape. I'm not sure I'll go that far, however it does play a role in how the overlying white paint will wear from over the black paint. I don't particularly want some kind of cheese-grade lazy relic that just looks like its been dragged behind a car and sanded with 60 grit paper. The concept has evolved into how the VH1-era Frankenstrat would have fared if it had gone through 6-7yrs of hard touring abuse, so in some ways I need to pay attention to whether the specific finish/build quirks here and there really need to be followed in order for the relicing process to be realistic and representative of the real world. I see a lot of Ash grain showing through the black, and the white seems to have worn free of the black at the edges of the stripes. That and a few runs here and there, plus sloppy low grit sanding....

[Prostheta]

The choice between a fast-catalysing 2k might make a difference in how the tape pulls and with subsequent relicing. At least it will be a hard finish to work with. A plain solvent-evaporative finish never truly cures and remains pretty plastic-y for a good while after painting. Relicing methods will work differently on that between it being new/soft and near final hardness. It's very easy to get to the point of splitting hairs, and I really don't want to have to do that. It might have to be the cheaper plastic-y paint option, but with effort put into how coats are laid down to reduce trapped solvents. It's a hot summer this year, and I think it'll be good for helping harden off that style of aerosol so that I'm not waiting months to relic it well.

[Bizman62]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

I don't particularly want some kind of cheese-grade lazy relic that just looks like its been dragged behind a car and sanded with 60 grit paper.

I'd say that's a good attitude! Every time I see Dan Erlewine take a stone and a hammer to make dents on that freshly repaired and repainted vintage '53 Tele it hurts my soul. Same thing with the scraping he does for faking cracks. Oh come on! Cracks are cracks, scratches are scratches! If he wants the finish have cracks there's ways to crackle the finish naturally if the intention is to make the surface look old. Drawn cracks look drawn, you never can duplicate what 60 years of shrinking does to paint.

As you said, EVH gigged with that guitar for 6-7 years and despite cases and stands to keep it playable things happen. Sweat, dirt, sleeves and arms make a mildly abrasive and dissolving cocktail that can't be mimicked by towing behind a car. That subtle wear can be accelerated a lot with sandpapers of various grits but one should take into account that even the finest grits like 2000 are a long way coarser than the arm of EVH, bare or inside a sleeve.

Speaking about using a pebble to create a dent: I once laid an unopened ½ litre can of beer aside of my desk. Our house isn't the cleanest but we don't use outdoor shoes inside so the pinewood floor looked dusty at the very worst. Well, for some reason the can tilted and tipped on the side. Our cans are thicker than the American ones so you can imagine my face when I lifted the can: It started squirting beer all over the place from a tiny hole on  the side! No way I could ever replicate that no matter how hard I tried!

Same thing with relicing, you never can duplicate a once in a lifetime oopsie. But you can speed the aging process by multiplying the wear and tear factors ten- or hundred fold. That's what they do when they test the durability of fabric or other surface materials. Heat, moist, UV light and mechanical wear magnified will speed the aging process of anything.

[Prostheta]

It's going to take some time, and I'm sure that it'll be over a good many sessions between periods of playing and aging. I'm of the opinion that trying to do it all at once leads to rash decisions and poor results. A scuff here, a knock there and maybe a chip encouraged now and then make more sense than going all out wild destruction for half an hour. I'll be trying a variety of cocktails of my own from oxidising solutions to tea, maybe a bit of shellac and dryer lint here and there, the odd bit of rust and muriatic fuming.

[komodo]

This will be fun! I'm also going to do some hard relic to this crappy telecaster body that followed me home. I found a guy who does relic finishes and has a whole bunch of pictures in his galleries, which make for good reference photos.

https://www.mjtagedfinishes.com/

I wonder if anyone has created a machine to do some kind of repeated motion to simulate wear? lol "Stick it on the arm and belt bucklizer and turn it up to 7!"

[Prostheta]

Those relic jobs aren't bad, but they seem to only tick a couple of say, ten boxes. Oxidising the wood is a big one, and that makes a huge difference. Their missing paint looks like it is missing for one reason rather than the many that cause real wear from age.

[Bizman62]

8 hours ago, komodo said:

I wonder if anyone has created a machine to do some kind of repeated motion to simulate wear?

In fabric industry the Martindale test is common practice and it sure isn't performed by hand! The testers are built to test several small spots so they're not what you are looking for.

Burrow use this simple machine among others, wouldn't you think that would do the trick on guitars? Looks like something @curtisa could build from the leftovers of his strumming machine!

[Prostheta]

If you're attempting to replicate a repetetive motion, sure. It needs more randomness in direction and less uniformity of direction to represent what a real relic tends to look like. I might put the body in the back of the car in a box with a bunch of random items so that it gets jostled and lightly dented thousands of times with natural randomness. Otherwise it's going to be slow considered work.

[Bizman62]

5 hours ago, Prostheta said:

If you're attempting to replicate a repetetive motion, sure.

I was thinking about the strumming arm and the fingers holding a pick. Shouldn't be too difficult to build a slightly angled padded rod for an arm with a loosely swiveled paw at the end.

[Prostheta]

Once I figure out a reasonable concoction for "dirt" (shellac, graphite, amber dye, that sort of thing) that I can wipe on as dozens of layers in between stages of distressing, I'm sure that I'll get tired enough to figure out how something else can do it for me

[Prostheta]

Well, regarding the neck contour gauges....I CNC'ed myself a pattern of a typical "vintage" style Strat that seemed pretty chunky and dialled that into the neck to see how it felt. Terrible. It felt like absolute ass. That said, I knew that I'd want to dial in my own neck feel using that as the basis from which to work. Anecdotally, EVH also modded his own neck profiles and ended up somewhere with an assymmetrical profile which I presume was the reasoning - if not the patterning - for the Wolfgang profile. So, I spent an hour with my DEROS and my cabinet maker's rasp nibbling away here and there, smoothing the profile in to each end and left the whole thing with a flatter D, 21,5mm to 23,5mm. It still feels like it could be refined further, however I need strings on there before I can make good judgements on what needs to go away.

I should also try and remember to buy some brass tube with an ID slightly larger than the broken trem screws. The screw removers I make are a short length of tubing with hand-filed teeth that cut in a counter-clockwise direction. That way, when the tool gets to a certain depth the internal friction of the wood waste plug versus the force required to turn the screw out helps remove the screw without having to go all the way. Typically this halves the depth of the filler plug which is always a bonus.

[Bizman62]

57 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

remember to buy some brass tube with an ID slightly larger than the broken trem screws.

Why brass? Agreed, it's easier to file teethy than steel, but steel would have the same strength with thinner walls. Something else that I don't know?

[Drak]

Hmmm, guess he ran out of tape right there at the top of the horn, or that was the starting point.

Tell me, how many pics do you have of that guitar for research purposes?

If it were me, I'd have dozens...from every angle I could get...but I'm like that.

Your build is really starting to bug me...

I keep thinking about that Duncan CC with the roughcast UOA5 in my drawer...

And now I'm like 'Dammit! I must put it in something!'

But I only have 2 Floyds going at the moment, and both bridge pickups accounted for...it's driving me crazy I tell you...

[Prostheta]

Dozens, plus even more of the EVH 78 Eruption relic. Those are simply as reference to be validated against pics of the real deal.

[komodo]

On 7/6/2021 at 6:04 PM, Drak said:

Your build is really starting to bug me...

I keep thinking about that Duncan CC with the roughcast UOA5 in my drawer...

And now I'm like 'Dammit! I must put it in something!'

But I only have 2 Floyds going at the moment, and both bridge pickups accounted for...it's driving me crazy I tell you...

 

Getting the itch?

It would be fun if we did a PG-wide build. Like everyone simultaneously builds a Frankenstrat, or '58 Korina V, or an SG. Or maybe a theme? Everyone builds a Franken-something. Your build did have me considering a Frankenbuild to my crappy tele.

[Drak]

18 minutes ago, komodo said:

It would be fun if we did a PG-wide build. Like everyone simultaneously builds a Frankenstrat, or '58 Korina V, or an SG. Or maybe a theme? Everyone builds a Franken-something. Your build did have me considering a Frankenbuild to my crappy tele.

My dear, dear K...I have a single-word reply for that.

Carriburst.

The posts attached to that unfortunate thread which probably still to this day clog up the arteries of ProjectGuitar.

Have a wonderful day .

[Prostheta]

If there was traction from a number of people, any idea is fun and useful. In this instance, I don't know if a mass Frankie buildoff would get off the ground. We've all managed to figure out our relationships with our instrument of choice and how - mostly - Eddie had his fingers in there somewhere whether directly as an influence or by steps. I doubt that we're all big EVH-heads enough to float that one! Still, I'd encourage you to take that idea and keeping rolling with it. Absolutely.

If I were to build a Flying V, it'd be a 70s tribute to Jim Martin's chrome guard V. I'd do another SG though, but it would have to be along Zappa lines like the not-Gibson "Baby Snakes" SG.

A second Frankie will be forthcoming I think. Depends if I have a job after September.

[Bizman62]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I doubt that we're all big EVH-heads enough to float that one!

Well doubted! Without this thread I still wouldn't know the background of the paint striped strat not to speak how it connects to EVH...

[Prostheta]

In short, his most-associated guitar (the red white and black Frankie) was plain sealed Ash for a while, then he painted it black (poorly) and subsequently painted it white with masked black stripes. This was all before their first world tour and the subsequent masked striped red paint; really, the "form" Frankie was in before it all kicked off.

[komodo]

13 hours ago, Drak said:

Carriburst.

Oh my. That's why I suggested it not be a competition. lol 
Anyhoo, just thoughts. Probably best to let everyone go about their day and build whatever they see fit.

Back on topic, the Frankenstrat had many necks over the years, many pickguards, and the useless single coil and switch added. You could slip into the continuum at many places but it seems like most tend to do the final incarnation. Interestingly, the guy at Fender custom shop that built the replicas did all of it by pictures only without having the original in hand. EVH said everything about it was better than the original. lol

If I built one, I don't think I'd include the reflectors just for comforts sake. But that would probably make some people's head explode.

 

[Prostheta]

Yeah, there's always a lot of having to read between the lines with the VH brothers. Partly Ed always tried to throw people off the scent, part create mystery and part plain old bullshit!

[Drak]

I decided to build a de-constructed Eddie with my roughcast UOA5 CC, ...like chef's do de-constructed dishes. Which means it won't look anything like a Frankie, but it should sound like Eddie. My CC has a gold cover on it, so I had to find a way to 'make that work'. Oddly enough, I've been watching all of the Pete Thorn YT's about Eddie lately, all of them, he has several. I'm sure it's because I'm in the middle of three Floyd builds and maybe four.

And I'm always influenced externally by whatever I happen to be building at the moment. Like, when I was building the two Garcia things, all the sudden I was researching Garcia and Dead music. Now they're both done, I'm not researching that much anymore. When I was building the Buchanan Moonshadow, I was listening to Roy constantly.

Now ...its all about the leopard pickguards and hair metal.

I actually saw VH on their first national tour, they were 'all the buzz' at high school back then, we all knew something special was coming...

[Drak]

I have an Eddie question. I know the SC in the red Frankie was just there for show, it wasn't connected, so he only ever used the bridge pickup.

But when he started having his own guitar line, like the Ernie Ball or the Wolfgang, that did have neck pickups...

Did he ever use them? Did Eddie ever use neck pickups?