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22 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

That's a clever way to glue the scarf joint!

Cheers, it worked well, scarf joints seem to be one of those things where there are lots of different ways to do it. It's funny, I still run into people that think a scarf joint in a guitar neck is a bad thing. Still, companies that don't do scarf joints in necks with angled headstocks keep guitar repairers in business so bless them!

 

 

20 hours ago, Prostheta said:

In all seriousness though, it's a valid solution but a few tweaks can rattle out possible issues. Reduced clamping pressure needs a good consistent thin film of glue on both surfaces. Pfohl glue rollers are pretty neat, but they waste too much glue on a single component layup! A notched spreader or a hair comb does the trick. If slip is a PITA, lay out your parts dry and shim up the neck part by say 0,5mm or similar. Drill through the areas either side and fit a couple of wood dowels for locating. In the layout shown, downwards pressure on the neck section increases overall pressure in the gluing area, with the dowels stopping the material from slipping out of location. One big clamp in a stable layup with cauls to distribute pressure is all that this really needs. It works.

If using dowels, bear in mind the shear force involved as it could easily split out wood from the dowel locations closer to the thin edges. I have literally never done this. 😐

Great idea to use dowels on the outside that will get cut away later. In a headstock located scarf joint that was going to get covered in veneer or laminate, the dowels could be put  in the area to remain, to become part of the joint. The other thing I have wondered about is uing nuts and bolts in the outside area that will get cut away and using them not only as aligners but clamps, has anyone done this?

Glue clamp caul experiment work well, I took itout of the clamps this morning

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No stick to the greaseproof paper covered caul

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Nice joint

IMG_4945.thumb.JPG.5e6248b21e2d1f44a494f85c796c346c.JPG

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I take it that this is not the finished item? 😀

I saw a post on this forum of someone cutting for a scarf joint using a hand saw completely freehand and that was inspirational, but I knew that I did not have that kind of skill. So I designed the ji

Cheers mate, that is so right, a little bit of mathematics can really help in guitar making, and it is really cool seeing how things can be worked out before making sawdust. I sanded the join sur

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1 hour ago, Muzz said:

Cheers, it worked well, scarf joints seem to be one of those things where there are lots of different ways to do it. It's funny, I still run into people that think a scarf joint in a guitar neck is a bad thing. Still, companies that don't do scarf joints in necks with angled headstocks keep guitar repairers in business so bless them!

Great idea to use dowels on the outside that will get cut away later. In a headstock located scarf joint that was going to get covered in veneer or laminate, the dowels could be put  in the area to remain, to become part of the joint. The other thing I have wondered about is uing nuts and bolts in the outside area that will get cut away and using them not only as aligners but clamps, has anyone done this?

Not this exactly, however in both guitar work and my work-work, I use a lot of screws as both locators and ways of bringing parts together under compression from the tension in the screw (edit: in this instance of course, screws only locate and hold together, not clamp). A bolt and nut would do much the same thing since that's essentially like a through-hole clamp. In general joinery work I have run the numbers on clamping pressure so many times now that I pretty much run off the top of my head how many large F-clamps (about 1000lbs each) and small F-clamps (200-400lbs depending on model) and I would imagine that say, an M10 bolt would be somewhere in the region of 100-200lbs. I'd have to look into that. You'd need washers out of the wazoo to spread that load usefully and evenly, but there's no reason that you couldn't extend the concept out into some sort of dedicated caul clamping mechanism. This has got my brain working on a Sunday morning now, so forgive the stream of thought. Two pieces of hard wood (like Maple) with a convex curve milled into one clamping face (2-3mm over at least 20-30cm) with two M10-M12 bolts either side would make a nice press that naturally exerts the pressure in the centre of the curved caul. A bow clamp essentially. Anyway.

Screws. I use these a lot. Drilling out the hole in the first piece to a size wider than the thread makes the screw cinch both parts together. The concepts are related.

Scarf joints are very valid constructional techniques and have been for millennia. The main advantage is massive reductions in short grain which is the absolute primary negative of angled headstocks in the first place. Why the anti-Norlin corksniffers hated on Gibson's '70s volutes and (I think?) scarfing is beyond me. They are excellent with zero disadvantages beyond cosmetics, and that bit is debatable as well!

 

1 hour ago, Muzz said:

IMG_4945.thumb.JPG.5e6248b21e2d1f44a494f85c796c346c.JPG

Nice joint

Nice bottle opener.

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Don't judge it too hard, Pros. It's a lightweight hammer, you can't expect it to drive 6" nails into oak beams. It will drive plastic side dots into predrilled holes just perfectly without any risk of bursting. Tapping plugs is most likely also within its capabilities.

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20 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

That scarfing jig is fantastic 👌

Cheers, it's always good to try new ways of doing things :) 

On 3/21/2021 at 6:24 PM, Prostheta said:

Scarf joints are very valid constructional techniques and have been for millennia. The main advantage is massive reductions in short grain which is the absolute primary negative of angled headstocks in the first place. Why the anti-Norlin corksniffers hated on Gibson's '70s volutes and (I think?) scarfing is beyond me. They are excellent with zero disadvantages beyond cosmetics, and that bit is debatable as well!

Very true, I think that people who don't like scarfed necks just do not understand that the scarf joint performs such an an advantage in strengthening the headstock to neck transition zone.

This slimline 6.2 mm wide truss rod arrived yesterday, I have used one of these before, they allow the thinnest possible channel from the neck through to the base of the headstock, therefore causing the least weakening of the headstock base possible. 

IMG_6513.thumb.jpg.0b845f3fe6f2525ec8e107b82e47b5cd.jpg

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Negative nancy here; those rods can be a bit dicey at times. The welds usually. It looks like a lot of the join between the adjuster and the adjusting rod disappeared into the pool. Not sure how best to test that before it gets committed to the neck, but worth a once over regardless.

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On 3/20/2021 at 4:19 AM, Bizman62 said:

That's a clever way to glue the scarf joint!

I'm basically going to copy his entire process - just putting that out there with no shame

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On 3/24/2021 at 1:43 AM, Prostheta said:

Negative nancy here; those rods can be a bit dicey at times. The welds usually. It looks like a lot of the join between the adjuster and the adjusting rod disappeared into the pool. Not sure how best to test that before it gets committed to the neck, but worth a once over regardless.

The way I test rods is to put the end in a clamp and wind the rod with an Allen key, in 2 way rods test clockwise and anti-clockwise. That rod is all OK it's going to live to be a hundred years old and get a letter from the Queen on it's hundredth birthday  :D 

On the topic of truss rod installation it's amazing what you see on the internet how to pages, one site I saw recommends putting tape over the channel when applying glue for the fretboard, so far so good, but the site recommends leaving the tape there and put the fretboard on!

The other great story I have heard (I do not know if it is true) is that Brian May played his Red Special guitar that "he" and his dad made for a few years before he realized that the truss rod had not been engaged. Definitely not recommended on slim necks.

 

3 hours ago, JayT said:

I'm basically going to copy his entire process - just putting that out there with no shame

That's great, hope it all goes well, I learnt how to make necks largely from this forum, it's terrific to share techniques :) 

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8 hours ago, Muzz said:

The way I test rods is to put the end in a clamp and wind the rod with an Allen key, in 2 way rods test clockwise and anti-clockwise. That rod is all OK it's going to live to be a hundred years old and get a letter from the Queen on it's hundredth birthday  :D 

On the topic of truss rod installation it's amazing what you see on the internet how to pages, one site I saw recommends putting tape over the channel when applying glue for the fretboard, so far so good, but the site recommends leaving the tape there and put the fretboard on!

 

Oof! Maybe not painter's tape. Something thinner like veneering tape, maybe. That stuff is meant to disappear under a joint. I've always ripped back a tape mask and never had issues with glue contaminating the rod to the point of dysfunction. Only if you use an entire bottle, perhaps! That test is pretty much all you can do short of destructive testing to find the failure point. I love LMII/Allied Lutherie's rods though. Those are about as close to engineered as is reasonable. Torquing a welded adjuster triggers something in me. If it were a single-acting rod with a threaded nut bearing against the block, that would be a better design I think. Much more durable.

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11 hours ago, Muzz said:

one site I saw recommends putting tape over the channel when applying glue for the fretboard, so far so good, but the site recommends leaving the tape there and put the fretboard on!

Crimson Guitars is one of those. They cut the tape narrower so that it's only about 1 mm or even less past the channel edge. Judging by the looks and the explanation it's regular masking tape they're using.

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On 3/26/2021 at 3:49 PM, Prostheta said:

 

Oof! Maybe not painter's tape. Something thinner like veneering tape, maybe. That stuff is meant to disappear under a joint. I've always ripped back a tape mask and never had issues with glue contaminating the rod to the point of dysfunction. Only if you use an entire bottle, perhaps! That test is pretty much all you can do short of destructive testing to find the failure point. I love LMII/Allied Lutherie's rods though. Those are about as close to engineered as is reasonable. Torquing a welded adjuster triggers something in me. If it were a single-acting rod with a threaded nut bearing against the block, that would be a better design I think. Much more durable.

Like you do, I will be ripping the tape off the channel before putting the fretboard on, you are right you would need a ridiculous amount of glue to flood into the channel to gum up the rod, which couldn't happen as the top bar of the rod fits tight against the sides of the channel. Those Allied Lutherie rods look nice, I got mine from Australian Luthier Supplies. I think Gibson Marauders have a traditional rod , but I have never tried fitting one of those. And I will not be buying a 1970's Marauder truss rod cover those things cost over $100. 

To get me hyped, I am listening to Deryck Whibley playing some Metallica on his Marauder 

 

On 3/26/2021 at 6:37 PM, Bizman62 said:

Crimson Guitars is one of those. They cut the tape narrower so that it's only about 1 mm or even less past the channel edge. Judging by the looks and the explanation it's regular masking tape they're using.

Yep after getting the neck plane dead flat no need to put a 0.2 mm ridge down the middle of it or protect that rod from the glue cascading down the side of the channel and jumping into the threads :D 

 

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I'd say that once you get into the realms of proscriptive "advice", learning stops. Understanding why one wouldn't leave tape under there and why you'd want to use tape in the first place generates knowledge, not rote aping. Leaving heavy tape under the fingerboard has all manner of potential issues that I just wouldn't want in a good neck. Firstly, it makes it more difficult to generate adequate clamping pressure along the edges of the fingerboard since the centre is jacked up from the gluing plane. Rim clamps help, but the easiest way is to remove the problem in the first place; rip the tape off! Rubbing a tealight or a stearine block down the rod prior to insertion gives it both a better chance against corrosion and any glue gaining a purchase. In practice, you'd really need to mess up the gluing to seize a rod or even hamper its performance. At least, with PVAc anyway. Epoxy? Meh, maybe. I'd be most bothered about the issues with getting a perfect cosmetic glueline. Like, really bothered. Postal, even.

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I cut down the piece that makes the back of the headstock/half the front of the headstock and got it ready to route about 4 mm off the face

IMG_6517.thumb.JPG.c46c683446e936408f8d8189a73483d1.JPG

 

and shaved it down

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The ruler said it was just over 16 mm thick now,

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pretty close, there's some room for sanding.

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Funny Marauder story.

PS, I like how Deryck has that single bridge HB moved northward a little for more thick balls tone. Funny his other guitarist has what appears to be a barden equipped Strat, Barden's not really known for being Metallica-approved pickups, generally, tho they do take gain really well.

Anyway, I bought three of the original (Bill Lawrence designed) Marauder bridge pickups about 10-15 years ago. My lazy ass left them in the pickup drawer as I never got around to making a pickguard cutout router template for them. So they just languished for all those years. I just finally made the template a few days ago as I needed to make one for my old Kay Speedbump pickups too. So after all these years I can finally use those old (and very cool) Marauder pickups.

I wasted no time, one is going in my new Oak Tele build in the neck. They all still have the shrink-wrap on the tops. Totally stoked to Finally get one of these in a guitar.

Can't wait to see your Marauder Come Back to Life.

xfo4xaT.jpg

 

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I made an Oak Tele with a Walnut neck for a friend in Espoo a while back....the body was shockingly heavy, and I thought it wouldn't sound good. As it turns out, the tone on that was unreal. JB in the bridge, custom Rautia Tele neck with 4-way switching. Epicly huge sounding, a treat with the right verbs and ambience.

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14 hours ago, Drak said:

Funny Marauder story.

PS, I like how Deryck has that single bridge HB moved northward a little for more thick balls tone. Funny his other guitarist has what appears to be a barden equipped Strat, Barden's not really known for being Metallica-approved pickups, generally, tho they do take gain really well.

Anyway, I bought three of the original (Bill Lawrence designed) Marauder bridge pickups about 10-15 years ago. My lazy ass left them in the pickup drawer as I never got around to making a pickguard cutout router template for them. So they just languished for all those years. I just finally made the template a few days ago as I needed to make one for my old Kay Speedbump pickups too. So after all these years I can finally use those old (and very cool) Marauder pickups.

I wasted no time, one is going in my new Oak Tele build in the neck. They all still have the shrink-wrap on the tops. Totally stoked to Finally get one of these in a guitar.

Can't wait to see your Marauder Come Back to Li

Cool telies, they are binging the mojo, the Marauder pick up is going to sound phat in there, and those pick ups have a great look to them. 

I have this in the bridge posi,

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IMG_4962.thumb.JPG.d3a4de212df9d29263a1bb7c8cdf41b9.JPG

Yes, DW's Marauder looks like it has a custom pick guard with the humbucker added, his mother gave him that guitar as his first electric. Yes some single space humbucker rails (like the one above) can give a massive output for passive pickups and get close to the Metallica, pushing the preamp sound. The advantage with them is they will clean up nicely when they are turned down with the guitar volume, unlike EMG actives.

13 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I made an Oak Tele with a Walnut neck for a friend in Espoo a while back....the body was shockingly heavy, and I thought it wouldn't sound good. As it turns out, the tone on that was unreal. JB in the bridge, custom Rautia Tele neck with 4-way switching. Epicly huge sounding, a treat with the right verbs and ambience.

Such a great surprise when you don't know what your guitar is going to sound like and you plug it in and boom

Finished my plan today

1977643234_Marauderplans.thumb.jpg.05edd799541306d040a5a62e6463d532.jpg

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17 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Well hello to you too.

G'Day Mate, for you and everyone here on the forum who has carved pieces of wood, joined them together, added strings  and played a tune on the result here is another view of the Rubber of Affirmation, and for those of you who haven't take the affirmation anyway and add, "you can do it"  :) IMG_6534.thumb.jpg.973f97a7e98558eb31e062b1025512e2.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...

Very nice! I've had a few router bits the last couple of years where the bearing or cutter are slightly off-size, resulting in a small lip. Obviously this is more of an issue if you have to ride the bearing on a previous cut which causes cumulative error. 

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On 4/25/2021 at 5:48 PM, Prostheta said:

Very nice! I've had a few router bits the last couple of years where the bearing or cutter are slightly off-size, resulting in a small lip. Obviously this is more of an issue if you have to ride the bearing on a previous cut which causes cumulative error. 

It's good to get a bit where the roller perfectly matches the blade, this one has been holding its shape for a while now, that's an important point about being careful using the roller on a cut you have made yourself. You can see a 2 mm section in the photo above at the top of the scarf where I used the first cut surface as a roller guide to reach the portion that the bit didn't reach on the first rout depth and small irregularities in the cut can get magnified this way as well, but I think I got away with it this time,

Then I had to thickness thewood to make the wings, without a thicknesser. I taped a pice of pine down and then taped my 20 mm thick rock maple pieces to it. 

IMG_6593.thumb.JPG.fe66463ed9bed33668b10702bc186094.JPG

Double sided tape is thick and spongey and those pieces would habe wobbled under the router blade like that so they were stabilised by pieces of pine taped on either side and then two more pieces of scrap clamped on to stop the whole complex from wobbling.

 

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Sled on the top of the rails

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and I took 3 mm off the top before a mechanical failure occured

IMG_6596.thumb.JPG.eed0b1ce89e92bf39c796f25bf50352b.JPG

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