Blackish.........sort of.

[ScottR]

A while back I was carrying on a conversation in here and noted that my later build threads didn't have as many explanations as earlier builds did. I felt like I've been repeating myself over the years and started letting the pictures tell more of the story. And I got taken to task for that lazy attitude. Apparently many folks reading my posts haven't been around for all of them. And they'd like a chance to learn what I've learned. So This time I'll try to explain more about what is going on in my messy little workspace.

 

What is one of the most important lessons learned in here?

Test on scrap.

This guitar is going to have a curly maple top and an ash back and neck. I want it to give the impression of being black, while still letting all the pretty wood show through.

So here is a maple scrap sanded to 400.

And Now to dye it very dark without using black, which tends to make things look dirty. For this I used Transtint dyes--Blue, Burgundy, and Mahogany brown--mixed in acetone. Once dry I wiped it back with a clean rag dipped in acetone, but apparently I found those wipe back pictures to ugly to keep and weeded them out.

Then I sanded that back with 220, 320, and 400.

Then I took some of the first color  and added acetone, more blue and lemon yellow. And wiped that on.

And sanded it back with 320, 400 and micromesh 1500.

The idea is to sand back with increasing finer grits and add lighter more dilute colors each time. I'm working to create mid-tones to go with the shadow tones and highlights. and the finer grit sanding polishes and increases the chatoyance.

Next I dilute the original color some and wipe that on.

Wipe with acetone and sand back with 400, 1500, and 1800.

And dilute the greener color likewise.

SR

 

 

[ScottR]

I continue the sequence for a few more rounds and then quit adding dye when I sanded back with 2400,3200, and 3600. At that point I just finished polishing it right up to 12000. And then I wiped on medium CA with a gloved finger several layers  thick and leveled that finishing with 300 grit.

And then shot a few coats of thinned lacquer and then some black tint coats.

This scrap isn't photographing very true to its color.

When does it ever?

SR

 

[ScottR]

I sharpened up the ol' iron and set to planing the glue surfaces for the body.

In the meantime I shot more layers of clear nitro on the test scrap.

When turned in the light this thing moves like nobody's business. And it has three distinct colors: deep navy, deep dark green and a burnt copper.

I glued a piece of polycarbonate to the base of an old low quality plane. Then I used some spray glue to attach sandpaper to the face. And then I wired about 2 lbs. of old

fishing weights to the top. You just push it along and it sands things flat.

SR

[ScottR]

Glued up the body.

Then took it out of the clamps the next day and planed off the squeeze out to see if the glue line is invisible.

And it is!

Prepping the ash for a two part neck.

And here we have a two piece neck beginning to become a two piece neck.

Now we wait for next weekend.

SR

[Drak]

Verry sexy so far.

I'll share something interesting I found out years ago.

When working high-figured Maples, I sort of did an experiment on some scrap where I continually sanded with finer and finer grits.

Applying finish along the way. 220, 320, 400, 600, 1000, up to 1500.

To the point where on 1-2 pieces, I actually dropped the sandpaper at 1500 and burnished the damn thing with a piece of metal for about an hour.

I was trying to increase the chatoyance at the time, of course, and, it worked.

What I found was that the higher the grit I used, the more the chatoyance would create 'opposing mirrored effects'.

Like, if you looked at the piece from the left, you'd see the deep flame on one side, but the other side would look 'dead'.

Then when you looked at it from the opposite side, the same, but opposite effect would occur.

The higher the grit, the more the difference, to the point I could only see the chatoyance of only half of the guitar at a time.

So yes, I got my chatoyance, but I didn't like only seeing half of it at a time, it kinda bugged me TBH.

So now I just sand to 220 and call it a day, so I get chatoyance, but not half at a time.

Maybe it had something to do with the way the lumber was cut or bookmatched, not sure, but it's possible.

But that experiment sort of dulled me to going crazy high grit before finish.

If I could get crazy chatoyance that all reflected the same direction, I'd be burnishing to this day.

[ScottR]

Looks like the response I made on my tablet didn't take.....

I've seen that myself from time to time. and other times I got the dance on both sides of the bookmatch, sometimes when the angle was just right, sometimes all the time.

2 hours ago, Drak said:

What I found was that the higher the grit I used, the more the chatoyance would create 'opposing mirrored effects'.

Actually that is a perfectly reasonable result, seeing as one half of a book match is the mirror image of the other.

This test piece really was fairly close to the jungle color of your Angkor Wat build, at least before the black tint. I hadn't seen the pictures until a couple of hours ago. . It aslo does not have so much of that brown cast. It does have the look of the luster of charred wood under glass.

SR

[Drak]

26 minutes ago, ScottR said:

It does have the look of the luster of charred wood under glass

Oh, it looks charred 'hawt', especially the last pics. Love it.

[mistermikev]

wow, master class in finishing right there.  I have only done one black dye finish and compared to all the others I've done it was def the hardest to bring to a place that I liked.  Lots of little things I will take away from this and seeing the piece evolve as you went - very informative, an excellent resource and I thank you for learning me something (again).  bravo.  

final finish is a 10.

[ScottR]

Got a question for any of you hand plane users out there.

As you can see, my go to plane is a long low angle Stanley. The iron is about 5mm thick and I love it. It does create some chipping on run out or cathedral grain like I have on the ash body. So I got a long heavy #5 and a half, which has a much higher angle of attack.

What I want to know is what are the pros and cons of high angle and low angle planes?

SR

[komodo]

So, I just went down a plane rabbit hole recently.  Mostly because I was buying old ones and refinishing them which I found enjoyable, and also to 'try out" a few to see if I like a 3, 4, 5 or 5 1/2. For guitars, I got a couple Stanley adjustable-mouth,  low-angle blocks that are SO handy and great with figured woods. All of them are 1890 - 1950 and are noticeably better than any newer stuff.

One thing to note, the low-angle block plane uses the iron with the the bevel UP and has a 37 degree cutting angle which is a mix of the iron angle and the bevel - if you grind the bevel at 25 degrees. If you grind it at 30 as other irons, then you are at a 42 degree cutting angle which is almost the same as a bevel DOWN which is typically 44 degree.

Bevel up (low angle) don't have a chip breaker and can be slightly better for end grain but especially figured woods. You can also change the iron bevel if you wish.

Bevel down, has a chip breaker which can be tuned by grinding/sharpening it flat so there is no gap at all with the iron. When placed right up next to the cutting edge (~1mm) you will likely get a smoother cut and have easier work. But I don't think they are as good with small work. Thus the low angle block.

[ScottR]

2 hours ago, komodo said:

For guitars, I got a couple Stanley adjustable-mouth,  low-angle blocks that are SO handy and great with figured woods.

That is essentially my go to plane....only it's not 80 years old. I truly wonder how a high angle plane could be better, but I'm going to give one a good chance to show me.

What is your definition of "small work"?

SR

[komodo]

Good question. I'd say "not big long strokes along the face or edge of a board."

[ScottR]

My two planes making my neck blank square.

I cut the headstock angle, and squared and flattened it with planes and my flat sander.

My flat sander...

And in between I finished polishing my test on scrap.

SR

 

 

[ScottR]

I made a hologram.

You can't see it in the pictures, but the ridges look 3/8" tall under 1/8" of glass and they move as you move.

That was fun, but back to practical stuff.

I sliced off a piece of ebony and flattened it, and cut fret slots in it.

Interestingly it has the same deep navy, deep green deep brown and black that the test on scrap has. That was not a conscious decision, but maybe my subconscious took control.

SR

[mistermikev]

it indeed does.  I'm coining the common term to sell uber high priced "rainbow ebony"!  I'll be the first customer please!!

[ADFinlayson]

Planning your finish before you've even started the build. You're making the rest of us look bad. Looking forward to this one, that stain job looks awesome 

[ScottR]

14 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

Planning your finish before you've even started the build. You're making the rest of us look bad. Looking forward to this one, that stain job looks awesome 

What? Doesn't everybody plan their finish before starting their build? I surely do. Now truth be told, I still need to finalize the body shape......

And thanks!

SR

[Drak]

5 hours ago, ScottR said:

Doesn't everybody plan their finish before starting their build? I surely do.

I always have a plan going in, on average I usually hit it ~80%.

And then there's always the 'surprise factor' of ~20% that happens unexpectedly along the way.

And I love that part of it, I love watching that unexpected 20% unfold along the way that I couldn't have planned out if I tried.

So, yes, always a plan in advance, and always allow the forces of existential whateverism to have their 20%  say in the matter.

[ScottR]

14 minutes ago, Drak said:

I always have a plan going in, on average I usually hit it ~80%.

And then there's always the 'surprise factor' of ~20% that happens unexpectedly along the way.

And I love that part of it, I love watching that unexpected 20% unfold along the way that I couldn't have planned out if I tried.

So, yes, always a plan in advance, and always allow the forces of existential whateverism to have their 20%  say in the matter.

That sounds about right. I go in knowing what color combination I'm going to work with, sometimes based on the wood I've chosen and sometimes the wood is chosen based on my color/effect plans. My necks are fairly consistent in look shape wise but not to the nth degree. My back carve is fairly consistent but adapted to work the each body shape. The bodies start with a drawn outline which is cut out, and then it can morph from there. The wood has to be allowed to speak and show its personality. And then likewise the guitar itself must be able to assert its personality as we close in on the finishing. My test on scrap will certainly come into play, but the amount of burst and the amount of transparency and other little details that make up the whole will be very fluid until they happen.

It starts out my vision and the more the guitar comes to life the more it becomes a partnership. That lets me always have a taste of the excitement in seeing what's going to happen today! each day of the build.

SR

[ADFinlayson]

Planning your finish before you've even started the build. You're making the rest of us look bad. Looking forward to this one, that stain job looks awesome 

[Gogzs]

Looks like you can surf on it, great stain job. Interesting build, keeping an eye on this

[ScottR]

5 hours ago, Gogzs said:

Looks like you can surf on it, great stain job. Interesting build, keeping an eye on this

Thanks man. Watch for sharks....

SR

[Muzz]

Lovely stripes Scott, planning the finish early in the build can accentuate the enjoyment of the crafting process, you can visualise what is unfolding as you work, all the best with this one.

[ScottR]

6 hours ago, Muzz said:

Lovely stripes Scott, planning the finish early in the build can accentuate the enjoyment of the crafting process, you can visualise what is unfolding as you work, all the best with this one.

Thank you kind sir.

SR

[ScottR]

Slotted the trussrod on the router table.

Drew in the headstock.

Transferred the location for the clearance I'll need for the trussrod access through the headstock plate. I'll have to do that again once it's cut to shape.

Used some copper tacks to peg the fretboard in place. I drilled the pilot holes through the fretboard and then clipped the tops of the tacks off below the lever of the fretboard surface.

And the glue up. I use an old piece of counter top for a caul. It is nice and thick to spread the clamping force out.

SR