emulsion and primers

[simon1138]

hello

i have an electric hvlp gun that i would like to use to spray finishes. i have tried emulsion which is a little too thick and difficult to spray. i have seen primer and undercoat by no nonsense, which seems quite good for the money and amount that you get. 

is primer thick like emulsion? i have looked at the chemicals in them and they both have somethign called "BIT" but not to sure about the other chemicals. i would like to spray the primer but not sure if it would be too thick like the emulsion.

anyone use this primer before? no nonsense primer and undercoat 2.5 litres for £10

thanks

[Drak]

A bit more specificity would help me help you.

2 hours ago, simon1138 said:

i have tried emulsion which is a little too thick and difficult to spray.

I don't know what you're referring to when you use the word 'emulsion'. Can you use another word to say the same thing? And any finish that is too thick to spray usually just needs to be thinned. All sprayable finishes have a thinning agent available, you would need to find out what the proper thinning agent is for your finish type. If I knew what 'emulsion' stood for, I might be able to discern what thinner you need. Sometimes it will be listed in the directions or on the label somewhere.

 

2 hours ago, simon1138 said:

is primer thick like emulsion?

Why are you asking this question? I need to get to the root of what it is you want to do. Primers (undercoat) do certain several things, of which the primary purpose is usually adhesion, and not always build, it ensures the topcoat has excellent adhesion to whatever the substrate is. Call it a 'linking mechanism' between substrate and topcoat. So are you looking for excellent adhesion, or are you looking to build the finish up as fast as possible?

IF your Primary concern is building up the finish to a dead-flat level surface, then say that, so I know for sure that's what we're really discussing. Because that will steer the conversation a different way.

2 hours ago, simon1138 said:

i would like to spray the primer but not sure if it would be too thick like the emulsion.

Again, everything you can put in a spray gun will have a thinning agent available that will thin it down enough to spray through the gun. But you have to be familiar with the finish to find out what thinning agent is applicable for that particular finish.

The thinning agent for your 'emulsion' is not going to be the same thinning agent for your 'primer', most likely. But they will both have a thinning agent available so you can shoot both of them. 75% of the time the thinning agent will be the cleanup agent, but not always.

For instance, once you start using a spray gun, you will be introduced very quickly to how to keep that gun clean and ready for use, or you can ruin a spray gun very quickly if you don't clean it properly after a spray session. A lot of times the cleaning agent WILL be the Same as the thinning agent, But Not Always. Just depends.

If your Primary Concern is to quickly build to dead-level, then say that so I know that's what you want to do.

[simon1138]

Hello Drak,

Thanks for the response.

Emulsion in the UK is called "latex" in the states, I believe. However, I am no longer interested in spraying emulsion, I have tried it and do not like the  results. I tried the emulsion as I thought that being thick it would fill small scratches and dents. I thought that primer would do this also.

I would like to build and provide a surface to adhere to. The primer mentions filling pores which is one thing that drew my attention. Something to help the paint stick is also good. I would like to use water based products as they seems cheaper and easier to work with. Easier to thin as well. I have the paints that I want to use. They are cheap ready mixed water based paints for kids. They seem to do a good enough job for now. I am not pro, still very much in the learning stage. So I don't want to spend a lot of money on things that will just end up ruined. I have just sprayed a body with black paint, this cost £2 for a good size bottle. The way it goes on it will last me a few guitars. This is good for me. 

So yeah, build and adhesion. Forget the emulsion/latex, it is messy and awkward. 

Thanks again
Simon

[Drak]

Got it, thanks for the clarity.

So what you want is a pore filler to get started, it will do exactly the job you're looking to do, and it's not expensive at all. Pore filler is applied by hand, left to dry, then sanded flat, not shot out of a gun, there are many YT's of applying pore filler available.

I use Timbermate usually, but there are others out there. These other products, your emulsions and primers, fill pores, but very poorly and very slowly, since that is not their primary concern. The pore filler will give you a 95% filled flat surface, quite nearly dead-flat if you get it applied and sanded correctly, so you'll need something else to really 'get flat'. But not very much. You can use whatever you like that bonds well with your water-based paints on top of the pore filler, take your pick.

However, Timbermate is a water-based product, so if you apply another water-based product over top of it, you will re-emulsify the pore filler and things won't go too well, so maybe you want a pore filler that is NOT waterbased so it stays in place if you do use a water-based product on top of it.

Also, trying to use the emulsions and primers, if trying to build surface, can totally backfire on you sometimes because they're not really designed to be applied thick, that's not their purpose in life and, well, it just doesn't go too well like that. Pore filler, OTOH, is designed to do exactly that, its was built to build to flat and fill in all pores, nicks, cracks, all that stuff, no problem, it loves doing that.