First Build - Using Sentimental Piece of Wood

[kczuk]

Hey all -

New here, and I've got some questions about a build idea I have. I have a sentimental piece of wood (hard maple I'm told) that I'm interested in using to create some guitar bodies for some 7 string baritone builds. The wood is from the top of an old desk, which was used to write a record with some buddies. A few questions/considerations that I'd like to get some thoughts on.

1. The piece measures 60" x 32" x 1 1/4". I realize this is a bit thin to work with for body, but might still work with minimal sanding/removal on the thickness. Should I try to make the 1 1/4" thickness work? Or should I layer it to give myself some more space? Bridge will be fixed, and electronics will be minimal, so I don't need too much space in the body for that. I'm hoping to get 2 guitar bodies out if it total (which I think would still work if I need to cut 4 pieces to layer into 2 bodies).
2. I'd like to bolt on a Warmoth 7 string baritone neck, but I'm not sure how to ensure the dimensions would fit perfectly in the pocket. Would the best approach be to order the neck first and measure off of it to create the pocket? Or are there any dimensions available for these necks (I can't seem to find any on their site)?
3. Any other tips or things I should consider when creating this? As this will be my first build, I'm very inexperienced, but hoping to learn a lot from it (and not completely ruin the guitar in the process, haha). There's a few minor holes in the piece, where the drawers and the rest of the desk were attached, but I think they can be avoided, as there's still plenty of space around them.

This process is more about having a memento for the record, rather than having a perfectly built guitar, though I'd still like to be able to play it.

Thanks!

 

[Bizman62]

First, welcome to the addiction!

Second, using a sentimental piece of wood gets a big thumbs-up from me!

Third, hard maple is pretty heavy! Building the entire guitar out of that would work but it might be too much to handle.

Fourth, looking at the image it looks like there's a veneer, and a rotary cut veneer to be specific. The board might actually be blockboard, meaning there's softwood slats glued between triple layer maple plywood and maple slats on each side. That used to be a common way to build mid-high class furniture. Look at the narrow ends to find which way the grain goes. If it's end grain you should see growth rings. Most likely it's sideways similarly to the long sides with a 45 deg corner joint. If you can, cutting a piece off the corner should reveal the type of the board, and I mean a pretty hefty piece, about 4"x4" or even a full width piece of 4". Or you could just cut a piece sufficient for a guitar body for the same reason. - Looking on the other side should also tell you and us something. If it looks like long boards it might as well be solid wood with a thick veneer at the ends and a rotary cut veneer on the bottom to keep it straight.

That said, it might not make a guitar. However, isn't it the very top that you're most interested in saving? Even if (or rather "since") it's veneered you might "recut" the top, meaning you'd cut a thin slice (1/4" or more depending on the wood) from the top and use that as a guitar top on lighter wood. That piece should give you six tops with pretty large offcuts for backplates and such.

1 1/4" is pretty much at the bare minimum for a guitar. I wouldn't try to build that thin as a first build, not even as a second or third unless you're familiar with designing, general woodworking and calculating strength.

If you can find a non-destructive way to find out how solid the wood is and find out it's indeed blockboard, cleaning it and adding legs might give it a new life as a table.

[kczuk]

1 hour ago, Bizman62 said:

First, welcome to the addiction!

Second, using a sentimental piece of wood gets a big thumbs-up from me!

Third, hard maple is pretty heavy! Building the entire guitar out of that would work but it might be too much to handle.

Fourth, looking at the image it looks like there's a veneer, and a rotary cut veneer to be specific. The board might actually be blockboard, meaning there's softwood slats glued between triple layer maple plywood and maple slats on each side. That used to be a common way to build mid-high class furniture. Look at the narrow ends to find which way the grain goes. If it's end grain you should see growth rings. Most likely it's sideways similarly to the long sides with a 45 deg corner joint. If you can, cutting a piece off the corner should reveal the type of the board, and I mean a pretty hefty piece, about 4"x4" or even a full width piece of 4". Or you could just cut a piece sufficient for a guitar body for the same reason. - Looking on the other side should also tell you and us something. If it looks like long boards it might as well be solid wood with a thick veneer at the ends and a rotary cut veneer on the bottom to keep it straight.

That said, it might not make a guitar. However, isn't it the very top that you're most interested in saving? Even if (or rather "since") it's veneered you might "recut" the top, meaning you'd cut a thin slice (1/4" or more depending on the wood) from the top and use that as a guitar top on lighter wood. That piece should give you six tops with pretty large offcuts for backplates and such.

1 1/4" is pretty much at the bare minimum for a guitar. I wouldn't try to build that thin as a first build, not even as a second or third unless you're familiar with designing, general woodworking and calculating strength.

If you can find a non-destructive way to find out how solid the wood is and find out it's indeed blockboard, cleaning it and adding legs might give it a new life as a table.

Ah, thanks for all the info!! This is very helpful. I'm going to cut a section that could be used for a body, so we can see exactly what it's made of. In the meantime, here's the top

and yes, good point. Since it's thinner (and may not even be solid maple), I can use sections as a top wood, which would honestly be just as great. 

 

Cross section incoming shortly

[kczuk]

Alright @Bizman62, looks like you're right! I'm thinking this might still be able to be used for a top wood though? 

[Bizman62]

Now that's some solid wood without being solid maple!

If I see right there's cross laminated veneers on the top but I can't count how many layers nor can I see how thick the top ply is. I mean, is it thick enough for you to cut it away? Or do you have to plane all the inside off?

A guitar top veneer can be as thin as 0.5 mm (0.02") if you're only after the looks.

Knowing it's a flat desktop you're mostly limited to a flat top guitar. If you take the top layers only you may also be able to bend it a little for a radiused top but the surface might crack to a thousand parallel stripes which can of course be stabilized but ruin the looks. Testing required! Slabbing two pieces together would make too thick a guitar, a regular flat top is usually about 1 3/4" thick. Belly carving and other ergonomics might look funny  - or then not! If you look at the build threads you'll find guitars with a smaller top veneer. Now that you know what's inside it's time for planning.

[kczuk]

54 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Now that's some solid wood without being solid maple!

If I see right there's cross laminated veneers on the top but I can't count how many layers nor can I see how thick the top ply is. I mean, is it thick enough for you to cut it away? Or do you have to plane all the inside off?

A guitar top veneer can be as thin as 0.5 mm (0.02") if you're only after the looks.

Knowing it's a flat desktop you're mostly limited to a flat top guitar. If you take the top layers only you may also be able to bend it a little for a radiused top but the surface might crack to a thousand parallel stripes which can of course be stabilized but ruin the looks. Testing required! Slabbing two pieces together would make too thick a guitar, a regular flat top is usually about 1 3/4" thick. Belly carving and other ergonomics might look funny  - or then not! If you look at the build threads you'll find guitars with a smaller top veneer. Now that you know what's inside it's time for planning.

The veneer on the bottom is 2 layers, about 3/16". And the veneer on the top is 1 layer, 1/16" thick. So it looks like I can use either side, but I'll probably have to plane off the inside.

I sanded some of the top paint off, and it looks really nice, and I can even keep some of the white in the grain for an unfinished look, which would look really cool.

 

 

A flat top is alright with me, especially for a first build, haha. I think I'll still do a bevel for the right arm, which will expose the body wood and give it some more character. Now time to select a tonewood and figure out how to apply the veneer well!

[Bizman62]

Leaving the white as a pore filler sure looks nice! The dark spots and white filled scratches especially accent the origin.

Getting the 1/16" top veneer as one piece can be challenging although it's doable. But since you're thinking about a right hand bevel and potentially a belly carve, how about cutting another piece and split it so that when combined they'd make that 1 3/4" total thickness? That would also allow for routing wire channels and such from the underside.

Like this:

[kczuk]

Ah! So just layer it on itself to use only the desk for the body. I like that idea first before trying to get off the veneer and use it on a different body. Then the surface of the whole body can be that unfinished white feel from the top of the desk!

Are there any strength concerns when layering these pieces? Should I keep the thinner of the two layers on the top of the body, or the bottom?

[Bizman62]

2 hours ago, kczuk said:

Are there any strength concerns when layering these pieces? Should I keep the thinner of the two layers on the top of the body, or the bottom?

Basically not. It might look better with a thinner top, though, especially if you leave the veneer in between as a decorative stripe. So if it now is 1 1/4" you'd need a ½" slice either for the top or the bottom to take you to the ballpark regarding thickness.

Strength is mostly dependent on the softness of the mid-wood. It looks solid, the growth rings are reasonably narrow and the seams look tight which all are good signs. But is that wood soft like balsa or hard like maple? Can you dent it with your fingernails, can you push a nail in with your thumb either from the side or the end grain? If not, the material should be solid enough any way you want to lay the layers.

By the way, tap the board on both sides all over the surface trying to hear or feel any loose veneers.

[kczuk]

5 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Basically not. It might look better with a thinner top, though, especially if you leave the veneer in between as a decorative stripe. So if it now is 1 1/4" you'd need a ½" slice either for the top or the bottom to take you to the ballpark regarding thickness.

Good point! If I leave the veneer in the center as an accent, it would look better with the thinner portion on top. I found a buddy with a planer (along with some other tools I'll need), so I think I'll plan to plane both of the 2 pieces on that side before layering them, to make sure they're not uneven.

5 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Strength is mostly dependent on the softness of the mid-wood. It looks solid, the growth rings are reasonably narrow and the seams look tight which all are good signs. But is that wood soft like balsa or hard like maple? Can you dent it with your fingernails, can you push a nail in with your thumb either from the side or the end grain? If not, the material should be solid enough any way you want to lay the layers.

Definitely can't dent it with fingernails. If I push a nail, it only make a small indent on the surface of both side and end grain, I can't get it into the wood with just my hand.

5 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

By the way, tap the board on both sides all over the surface trying to hear or feel any loose veneers.

I'll check for this! On the piece I cut already, it's extremely solid and the sound is consistent everywhere, which is a good sign.

[Bizman62]

9 hours ago, kczuk said:

If I push a nail, it only make a small indent on the surface of both side and end grain, I can't get it into the wood with just my hand

Then that wood is as solid as any "tonewood" out there. It looked like hardwood on the pictures but there's so many tree species available! Here we use spruce for that kind of boards, usually narrower slats and more sloppily glued as the top and bottom veneers would keep it together. Your tabletop looks like it would work without the veneers as well, only looking different.

I can imagine this will make an interesting looking guitar top!

[Gogzs]

Welcome to the forums, heads up, you're here forever. 

I like everything in this thread so far, from wood choices to  @Bizman62 suggestions. I would also go with gluing one half of the table to a full table board so you get "veneer-solid wood- veneer - solid wood - veneer" lamination in the end. That way, you'll have a layer of veneer in the middle, giving you something like: 

Yew-topped SG-style Guitar - Page 7 - In Progress and Finished Work - ProjectGuitar.com 

Still one of my favorite builds around these places. But yeah, look at the sideprofile of that build, the thin line separating two solid pieces of wood. You'd just have it inverted, a dark line separating light pieces of whatever that wood is. On the outside I'd keep the white paint pore filled sides.

Damn, this thread has potential, I'm really curious how it will turn out, best of luck!

[kczuk]

9 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Then that wood is as solid as any "tonewood" out there. It looked like hardwood on the pictures but there's so many tree species available! Here we use spruce for that kind of boards, usually narrower slats and more sloppily glued as the top and bottom veneers would keep it together. Your tabletop looks like it would work without the veneers as well, only looking different.

I can imagine this will make an interesting looking guitar top!

That's great to hear! I'm looking forward to this not only being something to hang on the wall. It's exciting to think it could be playable, depending on how well my amateur woodworking skills are haha

 

6 hours ago, Gogzs said:

Welcome to the forums, heads up, you're here forever. 

It's starting to feel that way.. I already found myself thinking about doing a strat build for fun. How did I get here already?

And that SG looks awesome! I love the accent line in the middle, I'll definitely be trying to keep it with the extra veneer in the center for this build.

 

I'm hoping to order myself a neck and other hardware in upcoming weeks, so I'll keep you guys posted on how this goes!

[kczuk]

ALRIGHT. It's been a minute, but I've finally acquired all the things I need (or at least most of them, to start working on the body).

I've got a router incoming today with bits, and I'm going build a jig/sled so I can use the router to plane the pieces to the right thickness to combine. A few questions:

• What would be best to finish the neck with? It's a maple neck from Warmoth
• I'd like to put a decal on the headstock, what kind of paint would be best for applying that before finishing?
• What would be best to use to finish the body to keep the "unfinished wood" feel once I sand it down?

The only other thing is that the templates I got are for 6 string parts (neck pocket and humbucker templates), so I'll have to mark out the correct sizes and slide them around a bit when using the router.

[Bizman62]

38 minutes ago, kczuk said:

What would be best to finish the neck with?

Many people prefer an oiled neck over a lacquered one. Shiny lacquer can feel sticky when your palms sweat. One trick is to make a shiny neck matte with 1000 grit wet'n'dry or steel wool for a similar feel but oiled and waxed is still slicker.

42 minutes ago, kczuk said:

What would be best to use to finish the body to keep the "unfinished wood" feel once I sand it down?

Again, oil. TruOil and the likes work fine, they all are a mix of oil, turpentine and lacquer so they when applied several times you'll eventually fill the pores for a mirror finish. But you can stop at any stage when you think the look and feel are what you like.

Oil finishing is a wipe on method and there's a couple of things to know. The main rule is to rub the oil in vigorously until it becomes tacky, then wipe it all off with a clean towel. After some 10 minutes some more oil will sweat out and you'll have to wipe that off as well. Oil on the surface will never dry! Let dry and repeat the next day. The first layer or three take the most oil until the wood is saturated, the following coats are for pore filling. After a few coats you can even use fine steel wool, nylon abrasive or wet'n'dry sandpaper with the oil to create a slurry to faster fill the pores, then go back to plain oil. Finally you can buff the surface for a more or less satin sheen. If you level all the pores and grain you can even buff it to a gloss. But as I understood you'd rather get a bit more organic surface, more like "it's shiny but there doesn't seem to be anything on the wood".

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, kczuk said:

ALRIGHT. It's been a minute, but I've finally acquired all the things I need (or at least most of them, to start working on the body).

I've got a router incoming today with bits, and I'm going build a jig/sled so I can use the router to plane the pieces to the right thickness to combine. A few questions:

• What would be best to finish the neck with? It's a maple neck from Warmoth
• I'd like to put a decal on the headstock, what kind of paint would be best for applying that before finishing?
• What would be best to use to finish the body to keep the "unfinished wood" feel once I sand it down?

The only other thing is that the templates I got are for 6 string parts (neck pocket and humbucker templates), so I'll have to mark out the correct sizes and slide them around a bit when using the router.

so... little late to the party so forgive if it's been addressed... but at 1 1/4" that's going to be rough afa clearance.  I think a 5 - way switch might just sneak in there but a tremolo is usually going to require 1 1/2" minimum unless you get something really low profile like used in the sabre series.  

ok, that out of the way... jem - cool.  is on my bucketlist to build a jem.  have a 77fp.  one of the best guitars I've ever played, and easily one of the best sounding guitars ever.  

best neck finish: well... best for feel in my experience is tru oil.  just feels like a raw neck despite offering pretty good protection.  best for sealing/stability - probably poly.   necks that are well sealed tend to fluctuate less with the humidity and for some this is a huge thing... others a small thing.

decal - have an inkjet or laser printer?  get some clear waterslide decal stock.  You can whip up the logo of your choice, print it, spray a few light coats of clear acrylic on it... and slide it on just like a model airplane.  if you want to get fancy... you could print it out reverse, paint in some details with gold paint marker, add clear add very light clear, flip it and slide on.  or... you can try your hand at screen printing.  you can get screen/ink from many art stores as well as paper you can print, apply chemicals... and parts that aren't printed will dissolve.  stick to screen... and you can squeegee on a logo.

lots of options anyway. 

body finish - well same as neck... tru oil is just the best for a raw feel imo.  osmo poly x raw is another I've learned from folks here that is just great.

[Invader Zim]

On 7/19/2021 at 1:22 PM, Bizman62 said:

 

1 1/4" is pretty much at the bare minimum for a guitar. I wouldn't try to build that thin as a first build, not even as a second or third unless you're familiar with designing, general woodworking and calculating strength.

 

Curious what strength needs to be calculated?

[Bizman62]

4 hours ago, Invader Zim said:

Curious what strength needs to be calculated?

Calculated, estimated, taken into account...

I mean when you go thin enough with the body there's at least these two points that require some further thinking: The neck pocket and the body between the neck and the bridge. Instead of strength we may also use the term "structural integrity".

If the bottom of the neck pocket is very thin the screws may pop through. A set neck in a neck pocket deep enough to have the neck at the proper angle or depth might be a bit stronger as the sides of the heel would be a bit more supported. But if the bottom of the neck pocket is too thin it may give in. Also, a cutaway like on a Strat or Tele would take most of the support away from that side, not to mention dual cut bodies like the SG or LP.

Also, if the body is very thin it may bend or wobble. Channels and cavities in a thin body can almost literally cut the body apart - think about a Strat with a pool for pickups, there's not much wood between the neck and the jack even in the standard thickness.

There's ways to strengthen the construction but it requires some understanding in the forces like string pull in rest and during playing. Simplified, we know that the scale of a guitar is ~25" and that the neck including a stiffening truss rod is about 2/3 of the scale length. Imagine building a bridge that long with a joint after one third, the measurements being similar to a guitar. How much weight would you dare to put on the joint?

[Invader Zim]

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Calculated, estimated, taken into account...

I mean when you go thin enough with the body there's at least these two points that require some further thinking: The neck pocket and the body between the neck and the bridge. Instead of strength we may also use the term "structural integrity".

If the bottom of the neck pocket is very thin the screws may pop through. A set neck in a neck pocket deep enough to have the neck at the proper angle or depth might be a bit stronger as the sides of the heel would be a bit more supported. But if the bottom of the neck pocket is too thin it may give in. Also, a cutaway like on a Strat or Tele would take most of the support away from that side, not to mention dual cut bodies like the SG or LP.

Also, if the body is very thin it may bend or wobble. Channels and cavities in a thin body can almost literally cut the body apart - think about a Strat with a pool for pickups, there's not much wood between the neck and the jack even in the standard thickness.

There's ways to strengthen the construction but it requires some understanding in the forces like string pull in rest and during playing. Simplified, we know that the scale of a guitar is ~25" and that the neck including a stiffening truss rod is about 2/3 of the scale length. Imagine building a bridge that long with a joint after one third, the measurements being similar to a guitar. How much weight would you dare to put on the joint?

Strats with trems are abominable but the design still works structurally. But I get your point.

 

120lbs to 130lbs of string  tension has yet to hinder any of my excursions even like this quite light and thin Star.

Purposely built with material on hand. 1..1875" thick and the only concern I had was screw length.  .625" standard bolt-on depth left .5625" of material.

Your mileage will vary of course but I say build with what you've got.  To get better at skateboarding you have to go skateboarding.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Invader Zim

[Bizman62]

Yes, everything is possible to build. Am I seeing right, is there about half the thickness of your heel under it, something close to ½"? That's a good amount. My main concern was if the bottom of the neck pocket would only be 1/4" or so. And a pool type pickup cavity with a 1/8" bottom in a 1" body made of poplar burl...

[kczuk]

On 10/15/2021 at 1:07 PM, mistermikev said:

so... little late to the party so forgive if it's been addressed... but at 1 1/4" that's going to be rough afa clearance.  I think a 5 - way switch might just sneak in there but a tremolo is usually going to require 1 1/2" minimum unless you get something really low profile like used in the sabre series.  

ok, that out of the way... jem - cool.  is on my bucketlist to build a jem.  have a 77fp.  one of the best guitars I've ever played, and easily one of the best sounding guitars ever.  

best neck finish: well... best for feel in my experience is tru oil.  just feels like a raw neck despite offering pretty good protection.  best for sealing/stability - probably poly.   necks that are well sealed tend to fluctuate less with the humidity and for some this is a huge thing... others a small thing.

decal - have an inkjet or laser printer?  get some clear waterslide decal stock.  You can whip up the logo of your choice, print it, spray a few light coats of clear acrylic on it... and slide it on just like a model airplane.  if you want to get fancy... you could print it out reverse, paint in some details with gold paint marker, add clear add very light clear, flip it and slide on.  or... you can try your hand at screen printing.  you can get screen/ink from many art stores as well as paper you can print, apply chemicals... and parts that aren't printed will dissolve.  stick to screen... and you can squeegee on a logo.

lots of options anyway. 

body finish - well same as neck... tru oil is just the best for a raw feel imo.  osmo poly x raw is another I've learned from folks here that is just great.

oooo okay! Great ideas. I'm going to look into printing the decal on some clear waterslide material. Would I still be able to finish the headstock with the oil afterwards, or would you recommend applying the decal at the very end once the headstock is finished?

[mistermikev]

6 minutes ago, kczuk said:

oooo okay! Great ideas. I'm going to look into printing the decal on some clear waterslide material. Would I still be able to finish the headstock with the oil afterwards, or would you recommend applying the decal at the very end once the headstock is finished?

in one of my builds here... sweetspotblue... I did an all tru oil finish.  did a waterslide for the headstock... used tru oil on ebony.  used acrylic to coat the decal so ink wouldn't run... built up tru oil on headstock and got it glass smooth, put on waterslide, then burried it in tru oil.  no issues whatsoever.  i don't know about other oils as tru oil is really more of a varnish than an oil... but it will def work with tru oil.

[Bizman62]

Just as a reminder, shellac seems to work between most any finishes so if you're unsure whether a decal would stick to oil, apply a layer of shellac. Then lay your decal on it and secure it with another layer of shellac. After that you can use whatever finish you like.

[kczuk]

Alright, I was able to get a lot done on it over the weekend! I built a custom jig for my router to plane two pieces of the wood, and glued them together. Then I was able to route the body and neck pocket as well.

The most challenging part was that I had to create a new body and neck pocket template for what I wanted, because it's a 7 string build, and none of the templates that I have worked for the specific dimensions. Once those were made, things went smoother.

The only part that I'm a bit bummed about is that the thickness is larger than I intended. The body is about 1.875" thick instead of 1.75", just a mistake when planing and gluing the two pieces initially. As a first build for me, I'm happy I'm able to get it to look alright though. I still have enough wood from the table top to build 2 more bodies, so I can correct it on those next time.

Up next I have to figure out how to align and drill out the neck pocket holes for the bolts, route out the pickup cavities, and figure out how to make the arm and belly cuts. Stay tuned!

[Bizman62]

That's some truly solid piece of furniture board! The inside board alone would cost quite a lot especially now that the price of timber has skyrocketed as a side effect of Covid...

50 minutes ago, kczuk said:

Up next I have to figure out how to align and drill out the neck pocket holes for the bolts

There's many ways but I figure one of the easiest ways is to first drill the holes into the body. If you're going to use a metal plate as a four hole washer you can use that as a template. If you're going to use individual (potentially countersunk) washers it's more about looks than accuracy. Just leave enough wood both around the truss rod and the edges. Anyhow... Simply drill the holes into the neck pocket from outside using a hair larger drill bit than the screws are - the screws should slide through without screwing. Then take some thicker screws and screw them in so that only the tips peak out a couple of millimetres. Carefully seat the neck into the right place and when it's properly positioned press it down so that the screw tips mark where the screws are going to be. You can even drill the screwholes on the headstock side of the marks for added tightness, this time using a drill bit smaller than the screws. The diameter inside the thread is the maximum size of the drill bit.