ESP M-II type "Invaders" Superstrat

[curtisa]

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

. @curtisa might have something to chime in here

Zzzzzz....huh? Did someone say something...?

That Guitar Max pickup thingy seems to be using a recycled LCD screen from an old mobile phone. You can see the 'shadows' along the top of of the screen where the unused phone reception bargraph, battery bargraph and flightmode segments are. Those screens are usually developed with power conservation in mind (the Nokia 5110 screen popular with home tinkerers draws less than 0.5mA with the backlight off) but normally at 3.3V battery voltages, so for simplicity you'd probably use some kind of lithium cell rather than the ubiquitous 9V battery and a stepdwon regulator.

There's probably no reason you couldn't make something like that last for months on a single charge. Because it spends most of its time doing nothing you'd just put any onboard CPU to sleep to conserve as much power as possible, and only wake it up when you are either programming it or flicking the pickup selector.

But, y'know....fiddling with buttons, inconvenience, option overload, another battery to look after...I can see that it might have limited appeal to the guitarist masses.

I reckon it's safe to say it's a dead product. The blog page where it was announced on the guitarelectronics.com website is dated November 2007.

[Prostheta]

Very true. One of the instruments that I seem to have been drawn into being a "go-to guy" on, the Aria Pro II SB-1000 had an LED indicator added in the 80s version. Old LEDs were just absolute pigs for current, even over an 18v supply. Then again, old silicon was also pretty greedy as well. I'm unsure if that display is backlit or not? If so, then yes, that'll be a weak link.

The Rick-O-Sound circuit is fascinating, since you can in theory send each pickup to separate inputs on amps or processors. In theory, you could stomp patches that provide specific pickup combos and tones with them. The only requirement being a stereo cable.

[Prostheta]

Last post, February?! Wow, I really have let things slide. So sorry everybody....employment is being a PITA (more accurately the lack of it) so my focus has been elsewhere. I'm scraping together the expensive bit for any guitar - hardware - and getting paint done when I can find some good time to do it.

Quick question that I'd like some input on. The white Mirage is going to get Fluence Classics, however I've torn between the open core or the covered (gold).

Old render (hence silver fretwork) with an approximation of Fluence Open Core pickups (but not with gold poles):

Up-to-date render with covered Fluence Classics:

[JGTay]

The gold covers and fretwork work very well together, ties it all in with the rest of the guitar. 

[Prostheta]

I'm leaning that way myself. Covers help strings not get caught under the bobbin edges with trem use, plus the (steel?) poles in the Open Core Classics aren't ideal.

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Last post, February?! Wow, I really have let things slide. So sorry everybody....employment is being a PITA (more accurately the lack of it) so my focus has been elsewhere. I'm scraping together the expensive bit for any guitar - hardware - and getting paint done when I can find some good time to do it.

Quick question that I'd like some input on. The white Mirage is going to get Fluence Classics, however I've torn between the open core or the covered (gold).

Old render (hence silver fretwork) with an approximation of Fluence Open Core pickups (but not with gold poles):
 

Up-to-date render with covered Fluence Classics:

gold covers with gold evo frets... that is a ladykiller right there imo.  fluence is so on my list of things to try at some point.  such a cool idea how they are made.  I really like their design for metal covers too.  looking fwd to it!

[Prostheta]

It'll be a very different neck tone for me as well since I normally play 22 frets rather than 24. I'm interested to see how the Fluence neck pickup works with the tone dialled all the way back. I have some work to do to figure out exactly how I want the blade switch to operate, but likely I will need to become familiar with the tones on tap from the two voices. I imagine something like PAF (voice 1) either end of the blade (1+5), voice 2 (hot rod, chime) either side of those (2+4) and maybe something else in the middle such as both pickups in voice 1 (PAF).

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

It'll be a very different neck tone for me as well since I normally play 22 frets rather than 24. I'm interested to see how the Fluence neck pickup works with the tone dialled all the way back. I have some work to do to figure out exactly how I want the blade switch to operate, but likely I will need to become familiar with the tones on tap from the two voices. I imagine something like PAF (voice 1) either end of the blade (1+5), voice 2 (hot rod, chime) either side of those (2+4) and maybe something else in the middle such as both pickups in voice 1 (PAF).

i haven't studied the fluence and what they are doing with their different 'voices'... have not found a resource that explains exactly what they are doing but given the idea of a multi layered pcb in lieu of actual wires I would think it would be foolish not to take advantage of the idea of tapping the pickups 80% of the way through the coil and doing an overwind as it would give the option to do a classic paf wind and then switch to an overwind depending on wiring... but haven't seen any literature that explains what is actually happening.  that said... if they ARE doing that... this would be a RIPE situation for doing a mismatch of coils.  ie 100% neck wind on one coil mixed with 80% bridge wind on opposing coil.  if you/anyone knows... would love to read that.  

[Prostheta]

The design is relatively vertical in terms of it not being that modifiable. Each pickups seems baked into the three modes with accessory options like the frequency tilt and volume reduction. In principle you are correct, however I'm not sure if the design would allow that even if the internals were accessible. I noticed a few plated through holes on the bottom, however it would be unlikely that tapping into any of these would be easy or productive. Not as ripe as you might think by unit, however the platform itself might lend itself to some pretty odd options and possibilities. Or completely not.

 

[mistermikev]

20 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

The design is relatively vertical in terms of it not being that modifiable. Each pickups seems baked into the three modes with accessory options like the frequency tilt and volume reduction. In principle you are correct, however I'm not sure if the design would allow that even if the internals were accessible. I noticed a few plated through holes on the bottom, however it would be unlikely that tapping into any of these would be easy or productive. Not as ripe as you might think by unit, however the platform itself might lend itself to some pretty odd options and possibilities. Or completely not.

 

i guess it would boil down to whether or not they decided to do that or not.  in theory... you could have a through board eyelet that you just avoid once you get over 80% of the coil.  that'd be an 80% tap... but I have no idea what the wires are actually hooked up to... and in theory somewhere in that stack of pcb there could be an smd resistor for a partial tap... or any number of other things.  will have to read more on the site and see if they divulge this top secret info!!

 

looking at below... def seems to be some sort of either coil tap or just splitting on the first two wires...

sorry for blowing up your thread with diagrams... but i hope it's ok given you might directly benefit?  here's another one showing how to coil tap anyway...

[Prostheta]

I'm not going into this at any level beyond how I switch between voices and pickups. I might use a neck single as one of the options.

[komodo]

The 8-string I built uses the Tosin Abasi Fluence, though I imagine they are all somewhat similar in regards to how the voicing works. One voice is a kind of modern full range sound, the other is a vintage voice which rolls off the highs somewhat. Then there’s a single coil mode. All of them are highly useful, more so than any pickup I’ve ever played, but they are also active which does most of the heavy lifting.

[Prostheta]

That's pretty much what I figure as well. I prefer instruments that are to the point rather than endlessly-comprehensive, so I might even keep Pearly a 3-way switched same as the EMG-based Invaders. I've never been a fan of pull pots as I prefer switching from one voice to another using a single control. I'd rather upgrade to a 5-way switch by that point.

So a little one how I'd go about designing a 5-way switch to cater for multiple voices and single coil switching. The Fluence has a very simple method of switching voice or engaging single coil mode, which is either done with hard jumpering to set a pickup in one voice/mode at installation, or pulling a specific pin to ground with some switching.

This says to me that the switch needs to be 2-pole; one pole is for pulling the appropriate voice/mode pins to ground based on switch position, and the other to provide specific pickups' output to the rest of the circuit downstream of that, eg. volume/tone. My own configuration will vary somewhat from this as I run a tone pot for the neck pickup only and a master volume. This brings in the tone pot to a weird position direct to the switch, but we'll look at that later. The second pole of the switch selects between the various pickups that are live at any one position. Tie the neck to position 1 (most forward) and the bridge to position 5 (most rearward). Wire jumpers between these tags and the intermediate positions provide various combos.

My proposed design of Voice 1 on the outer positions, Voice 2 adjacent and single coil Mode in the middle just requires that ways 2+4 pull the Voice pin to ground and way 3 pulls the neck pickup's single coil to ground. Similarly, any other control over the pickup's other functions like the low-pass tilt filter and volume reduction can be bonded to these ways as appropriate. Neck humbucker voices too loud compared to the other positions? Bond those two positions ground ways to the -6dB control pin. Single coil too brash? Try it with frequency tilt in that position.

Having voiced this "on paper", I figure that I might even keep this whole thing simpler. The VLX54 3-way I have on hand for Pearly easily presents good options. I don't use a middle position of both pickups on in a dual humbucker guitar, so that middle position could easily be assigned to set the bridge pickup to Voice 2 (if Iike both voices) or to the neck single coil Mode (unless I like the neck Voice 2). Those feel like a good working palette over a more complex system, and derives all the benefits I require.

[Prostheta]

Hi everyone. I've been taking a mental health break recently, as everything is somewhat less than easy this end of things. Everything is fine, however financial requirements, difficulty in focus, motivation and general enthusiasm has been an uphill struggle. Oh yay, winter darkness starting too. 

So I've not had that much chance to truly advance these two guitars beyond scraping together money here and there to buy all of the expensive bits like tremolo systems, tuners, pickups, etc. We're almost there aside from a few small items like pots and paint for the bodies.

Both necks are having their final profiles tuned, mostly the transition from the neck contour to the heel. The sharp transition of the heel translates to a corresponding neat finish for the neck also.

For the moment, this is a peek at levelling the EVO wire on Pearly's neck. After bevelling the edges using a block with a file set at 30 degrees, I rolled the fret ends with a needle file, taped off the fingerboard and marked up the frets with a Sharpie. Running a simple flat hand file down the length top to bottom knocks off the marker, revealing any low frets. This board has been absolute magic in that the first swipe showed a nice level board from the get go. Mostly I put this down to pressing the frets with even pressure, cleaning and bevelling the fret slots prior to fretting, and meticulous work ensuring that the fingerboard has no bumps or dips. That since factor usually translates to good fretwork of itself!

 

The light line along the fingerboard edge is cheap white painter's tape, not the binding! I have blue tape on a desktop sellotape dispenser and use that for the important masking work. The next step is to replace the Sharpie lines and use a crowning file to leave the smallest line possible across the top of each fret. A quick sanding with a fine sponge before aluminium oxide polishing with a Dremel and we're golden. Literally.

[JGTay]

39 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I've been taking a mental health break recently, as everything is somewhat less than easy this end of things. Everything is fine, however financial requirements, difficulty in focus, motivation and general enthusiasm has been an uphill struggle. Oh yay, winter darkness starting too. 

Really sorry to hear about your struggles, hope things are getting easier. Talking helps, friends and family are a great resource.

Projects keep your mind busy.

SAD lights help for the winter months, a couple in your workshop will help. 

[henrim]

 

37 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Mostly I put this down to pressing the frets with even pressure, cleaning and bevelling the fret slots prior to fretting, and meticulous work ensuring that the fingerboard has no bumps or dips.

I have thought that if I need to level the frets I have done a bad job installing them. Obviously that is a bit extreme but on my latest two necks I have been more careful than before and there has been a lot less levelling. I have done a very slight bevel and pressed the frets in. Huge improvement compared to my previous necks. Although I beveled the slots on the two single cuts too, but I hammered the frets in. 

[Prostheta]

2 hours ago, JGTay said:

Really sorry to hear about your struggles, hope things are getting easier. Talking helps, friends and family are a great resource.

Projects keep your mind busy.

SAD lights help for the winter months, a couple in your workshop will help. 

Thanks man. I'm actually volunteering some of my spare time improving English language skills to Ukrainian learners online at the moment which is a positive pursuit. Projects do keep one busy, definitely. It's likely a cloud that needs to pass, and I'm sure that it will. I don't think I have that many difficulties with light like some, so just vit D supplements and routine I think.

 

2 hours ago, henrim said:

I have thought that if I need to level the frets I have done a bad job installing them. Obviously that is a bit extreme but on my latest two necks I have been more careful than before and there has been a lot less levelling. I have done a very slight bevel and pressed the frets in. Huge improvement compared to my previous necks. Although I beveled the slots on the two single cuts too, but I hammered the frets in. 

It's a combination of factors, however for my own part I figured that pressing frets is more consistent than hammering them in. I modified a Bessey ratchet clamp for this, and "two clicks" is enough pressure to seat the fret. Anything more and the wire can mash itself into the wood. I started bevelling fret slots when I learnt that the drawing methods of fretwire often leaves a small fillet between the tang and the underside of the crown. Jescar wire seems sharper in this transition than say, Dunlop. Still, the bevel is also useful should it ever become necessary to refret the board also as it reduces surface chipout. At least, it has done whenever I've had to remove a fret to replace it. Not sure about the "years later" side yet. By far, the biggest improvement was ensuring the fingerboard surface was perfect. Every bit of effort there reduces the amount of metal needing to be removed from the frets.

[Prostheta]

Okay, so let's have a brief update on the details that I've been working out with these guitars.

At this point, Pearly is built and set up for examining how well she plays. The neck profile will be refined based on how the entire neck feels as a combination of neck profile and fret height. This will probably differ with Invaders since that has slightly shallower fretwork.

The electronics for the Fishman Fluence Classis in Pearly may change. Currently since it's in testing, I wanted to get an idea for how usable the modes are within the pickups. I'd prefer not to have to build in switching if it really isn't necessary, especially for the neck pickup "hollowbody" tone. If this switching does get built in, I also want to identify whether I want separate switching for each pickup, global voice 1/voice 1 switching or other combination with the single coil modes. Similarly, I'm not really a push-pull guy and prefer using larger 24mm pots in my electronics than mini pots. This will possibly mean adding one or two gold paddle toggle switches between the vol/tone controls.

Invaders is needing me to find some EMG interconnect wires to hook up the pickups so I can start testing that neck also. That has a pair of 24mm pots fitted, and is set up for 18v operation rather than 9v. Controls here will be simpler, just the usual 3-way vol/neck tone that I have with all of my guitars.

I'm really pleased with the tone and noise reduction of these Fluence Classics in Pearly, and amazed at how well she already plays. The neck is beefier than my #1 Ibanez by design, and other than a little squarity (I hope people are using that word already....) in the profile, it's very good in the hand and places the fingers well. It feels more ergonomic than the flat Wizard of my #1. The fretwork plays cleanly with only a slight adjustment needed with one low fret on the high end at 20th. The locking nut also needs a shim adding to eliminate minimal sitaring over the first fret with the D string. The action is consistent and low. Really really cool. The Gotoh GE1995-T tremolo is pleasing, even if I had a few initial problems getting the string blocks to grab strings fully at first. The arm mounting is perfect, at least at this stage. I love that the arm can be locked in with the bolt at the rear and tightened from swinging using a tiny Allen adjuster. How this works over time, we'll see. Tuning stability doesn't appear to be 100% perfect, but that may be a setup issue that I need to learn with use. This being said, specifically abusing the tremolo beyond what one normally uses during normal play doesn't throw it way out of whack and enough to bring it back in with the fine tuners. The three springs at the back are surprisingly noisy, so I guess I'm going to try foam or shrink tubing to see how this changes things.

Paint is going to be the tricky part to get past the end post. If it weren't for the work that the binding presents, I could possibly outsource this to an external painter, however I absolutely need the binding to be perfect. Unsure if I mentioned this before, however I've seen Toyota's Blizzard Pearl in person, and I think that is the correct choice over the Porsche Pearl White.

I'd go as far as saying that Pearly already exceeds my #1 in playability, feel and just that hookup that you get with an instrument. I'm definitely sold on Fluence pickups, that's for sure. Depending on how I develop with Invaders, the longer term goal there may be to swap out the EMGs for Fluence Moderns however I would probably need to learn to hate the EMGs for some reason. I don't at the moment in my Explorers, so this is unlikely.

[mistermikev]

well it looks real sharp.  at first I didn't even notice the invader behind... thought it was a shadow.  

is a sleek look w just the two knobs and 5 way... be a shame to break that up.  might consider some of those seymour switching pickup rings for alternative modes?  kind of spendy for what they do.  

anywho, lovely stuff.

[henrim]

Looking good.

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Invaders is needing me to find some EMG interconnect wires to hook up the pickups

In Finland you can get them for example from Musamaailma. Not the cheapest option of course. Although if you just need one or two I guess it's not that bad. Obviously you can always make your own with standard pin header connectors.

[Prostheta]

2 hours ago, mistermikev said:

well it looks real sharp.  at first I didn't even notice the invader behind... thought it was a shadow.  

is a sleek look w just the two knobs and 5 way... be a shame to break that up.  might consider some of those seymour switching pickup rings for alternative modes?  kind of spendy for what they do.  

anywho, lovely stuff.

 

Thanks man. I've never liked those SD rings. Switches can look cheap, however I use these:

https://www.banzaimusic.com/taiway-dpdt-on-on-flat-lever-gold.html

....since the appearance and gold colour plating ties in with the rest of the instrument. Not to mention that I am influenced by other instruments such as the Aria Pro II PE with their switches. Those were some sort of series/parallel and phase switches I believe.

 

None of that can be done here with Fluence. What I want to do is to eliminate voices that I know I won't find useful. I'm currently hard-wired into voice 2 for the bridge pickup ("hot rodded humbucker") and straight PAF for the neck. I haven't wired in the tone pot to the neck yet so I don't know the tonality as I use it. I'll probably ditch the whole "hollowbody" tone in the neck pickup, however I'll spend a few days with it to get an idea of how I feel. If I install one switch, it'll actuate perpendicularly to the pots and be sited in between. If I install two, they'll be as close as physically possible, also sited between but actuating in parallel.

 

1 hour ago, henrim said:

Looking good.

In Finland you can get them for example from Musamaailma. Not the cheapest option of course. Although if you just need one or two I guess it's not that bad. Obviously you can always make your own with standard pin header connectors.

 

Fantastic. Still probably cheaper than EMG. Fired an email to Musamaailma in Turku to check on stock of premade. Just less of a ballache than crimping.

[mistermikev]

admittedly those rings don't do much for me either... but they do offer sort of "hidden" switches.  i suppose there is also the freeway 5 way switch too... but those are spendy and I'm not entirely convinced given how easy it would be to not know where you are on one.  

that's a sweet aria.

[Prostheta]

I routed the electronics cavity specifically for this standard switch type. Freeway are rather bulky and provide more options than I can use I think. I've gravitated towards fewer controls as I get older, so I concentrate on playing instead of hunting in a sea of options. I just reconfigured my Helix so that my wahs disengage at the end of travel as well. Less is more, especially when it comes to my train of thought. I've become so dumb this year.

[mistermikev]

27 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I routed the electronics cavity specifically for this standard switch type. Freeway are rather bulky and provide more options than I can use I think. I've gravitated towards fewer controls as I get older, so I concentrate on playing instead of hunting in a sea of options. I just reconfigured my Helix so that my wahs disengage at the end of travel as well. Less is more, especially when it comes to my train of thought. I've become so dumb this year.

everyone hunting for complex options with simplified controls - a search that goes on forever. 

 

just another possibility... with a std 5 way and only a single vol/tone... you've got a lot of unused tabs should you be able to simplify your needs.  could see 3 bridge variations and then neck/bridge, neck in 4/5.  just a thought anyway, not that you need input from me.;)  

[Prostheta]

No, absolutely not. The simpler and more player-focused, the better. All I want out of guitars these days is that they play well and sound good. This one certainly hits that mark. If the 3-way switch could be made into a 2-way, that would be even better but I have to live with that middle position....! Same as the tone control; I prefer it neck only rather than global. So far, Pearly is blowing me away for so many reasons. I'm certain that a lot of this is to do with those Fluence pickups, however the guitar feels very alive and responsive. The Maple board is contributing a lot of clarity.