curtisa Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 18 hours ago, avengers63 said: After talking with them, I have two options: either a matching C/C in the bridge, or their El Rayo humbucker. Are their suggested matches based on how they look together or how they sound together? I guess you could look at it either way, but that's 100% something that will speak more to your personal tastes and the overall design goals of the build. If it were down to looks alone I'd swing towards 2x CCs. The El Rayo just looks like any other humbucker, whereas at least the CC has a sort of distinctive Art Nouveau edge to it that might unify the overall look if combined together as a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted April 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 Their advice was based purely on sonic balance. As for visual balance, I'll be making pickup rings from chechen. That might help unify the appearance a bit. Honestly though, looks are completely secondary in this decision. I'm a LOT more concerned with how the pups will sound. Listening to the sound clips again yesterday, I lean more towards the La Prima, which is a mini-hb. That throws a monkey wrench into the whole visual package. Having a CC in the bridge just doesn't seem right to me somehow. Prolly cuz it's traditionally been presented as a neck only. I know it's been shoehorned into the form of a Tele bridge for years, but that never sat well with me. It's a jazz neck pup. I mean... you wouldn't try and put one of those floating p/g mounted pups into the bridge, so why try and force a C/C into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 7 hours ago, henrim said: Sound qualities aside. The hexagonal shape is so strong that I would think it's difficult to combine it with a rounded rectangle. My understanding for sound qualities is that no matter what type of pickups a guitar has, my playing sounds like "thump, plunk, plunk" while another player can find all kinds of classy tones from that very same guitar. Shape is something my eyes can see and my brain understand. Do the C/C's usually use a ring? If not, have you thought about a matching pickup ring for the HB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 On 4/29/2022 at 11:06 AM, Bizman62 said: Shape is something my eyes can see and my brain understand. Do the C/C's usually use a ring? If not, have you thought about a matching pickup ring for the HB? CCs do not normally have a ring. I was going to put it in a chechen ring to match the binding because it'd be a royal PITA to get the screws & springs into the base without it. I was also going to make a chechen ring for whatever is in the bridge. This would hopefully level out the two shapes for a more visually balanced feel. In other news, I didn't get jack done over the weekend. I was off Thursday-Sunday, but I had oral surgery to have 2 teeth removed. One of them took a little bone with it. On the other hand, percaset is a wonderful thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2022 Mother's day weekend. All I managed to get done was some more kerfing, rough-cut of the top, and some rough measurements on the top for placement. The template I have for the f0holes is WAY too small for the size of the body. Wifey volunteered to help design an art nouveau style f-hole, so we'll just see what happens. I also ordered some more chechen. I'm CONSIDERING making the neck after all. Chechen neck with ebony fretboard and headplate would be appropriate. Then again, as this is a "price is no object" build, I've never seen an ebony neck....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 9, 2022 Report Share Posted May 9, 2022 11 hours ago, avengers63 said: I've never seen an ebony neck....... I've seen one being in progress on video and heard about the project from a guy who also popped up on those vids. That must have been the cheapest way to make one: The guy laminated "discarded" fingerboard blanks to a block. Don't know how that saga ended, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 On 5/9/2022 at 1:37 AM, Bizman62 said: I've seen one being in progress on video and heard about the project from a guy who also popped up on those vids. That must have been the cheapest way to make one: The guy laminated "discarded" fingerboard blanks to a block. Don't know how that saga ended, though... I'm looking at a couple of pieces. One is wide enough to not have to put "wings" on the headstock, but not much extra length. The other needs the wings but has plenty of length. Either will be just under $200 before shipping. I'm having a hard time justifying it to myself, much less to wifey. But the feeling of pure decadence with an ebony neck...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 I talked with Lollar today on the way home. They talked me through which HB would match best with their C/C in the neck. I just placed the order: C/C neck and low-wind Imperial in the bridge. $400 for two pups! I'm completely out of my element now. I don't usually spend $400 on the whole build - wood, hardware, pups.... I gotta admit, I'm more than a little nervous spending this much on JUST the pups. I need some booze. I gotta unclench or I might not ever poop again. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2022 I spent weeks of mental time trying desperately to come up with an f-hole design I can live with. I REALLY didn't want a traditional shape. The theme is are nouveau, and normal f-holes are most definitely not art nouveau. Both my wife and I searched in vain for a shape/theme to riff off of. In the end, I returned to the picture that will be marquetry on the back. "Music" from the Muses series by Alphonse Mucha. Observe the line work on the right side of the piece: Now let's color it in black marker and turn it over. This way, I can see what shapes appear without any interference from the surrounding art. So I looked at it, traced it, fiddled with it a bit, and pulled this shape from the line work. The direct connection to the original piece is subtle. If it wasn't pointed out, a casual observer would certainly miss it. But it's definitely there, it's definitely art nouveau, and it definitely fits the overall look/theme/style of the guitar. And it definitely took way too long to get here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 21, 2022 Report Share Posted May 21, 2022 Me mucha like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Woozle Posted May 21, 2022 Report Share Posted May 21, 2022 Definintely different - personally, I'd have gone for a whiplash curve but that's because I've long been a devotee of Aubrey Beardsley's artwork! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2022 Pickups came in. C/C in the neck and a low-wind Imperial in the bridge. The f-hole broke a little when I was cutting it out, so the bottom of it isn't the final shape. I'll be making another f-hole for the right side, and making pickup rings from chechen. Also, Stew-Mac sent me a 15% store-wide coupon, so I went ahead and ordered the side dots, abalone purflex, and teflon spacer strip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted May 21, 2022 Report Share Posted May 21, 2022 Looking good John. mk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2022 I got the pickup rings made this morning. By necessity, the CC ring is huge. The baseplate needs a cavity about the size of a P90, so the ring has to cover it with a little extra. I don't like how much ring there is on the bottom. It's unbalanced with the top, and just overall too fat. I'm almost certainly not going to have the HB ring math width with the CC. That just looks all kinds of wrong. Bit that doesn't mean it has to be a rectangle. I've thought about making them both oval. Another option I'm contemplating is not making the CC cavity to the specs Lollar suggests. It's presented that way because it's for a pickguard mount, so the cavity CAN be big. If I make the cavity with closer tolerances to the shape of the base plate, the bottom of the ring can be angled. It HAS to have the space to hold the 3rd height screw, forcing the bottom to me imbalanced with the top. BUT, if I angle it, it'd prolly look a hellofalot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 Today a few hours was set aside to inlay the f-holes. It's been a bit since I've done this, so an ounce of practice and setup was necessary. In order to properly inlay wood with the scrollsaw, you have to cut both pieces at the same time. The cut is at an angle so the top piece in the stack will seat into the bottom. Trial and error is the primary method of determining the necessary angle. The first attempt is at 2.5 degrees. You want the angle so that the top of the piece being inlaid sits either flush of a nut hair proud of the bottom. Too shallow of an angle and the top will go clear through the bottom. For example.... Too shallow. Reset the angle to 4 degrees and try again. If not perfect, then it's close enough. Time to cause irreparable damage to the top of the guitar! Fortunately for me, everything worked out just fine. Next week I plan on gluing the top onto the frame. As I have a 3-day weekend, I might get it done Monday. We'll see. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 nice work. I was liking your f holes prior to cutting out the center, but they look even better now. cudos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2022 Before I glue the top on, I had to finalize some measurements as best as I can and cut the holes for the pups. Making the bottom of the C/C ring angles was absolutely the right thing to do. I knew narrowing the HB ring to normal size was also needed. Better to try something out for looks while you can, even if you know it isn't going to work. I notched the center block also. It'll be glued onto the inside of the top right after the top is glued on, so notching it now only makes sense. Work smart, not hard. The end of it is gonna be lopped off. No need for it to be that long. I'm prolly gonna use it to make some wings for the bridge area. As is, it's about 3/4" too narrow. The bridge posts will hang off the edge a bit without the wings. I've tried several times, just like the block in the tip of the cutaway. I just can't finesse it into the exact shape needed for a good tight fit against the cutaway. So when I glue the center block in, I'll be filling the gap with epoxy. I simply lack the skill/knowledge needed to get what I want. I'll also be epoxy filling the edges of the end block. Maybe it won't make a difference, but why risk it. I'm seeing this as a learning point. I made the end block wider than needed and had some fitment issues as a result. Live and learn, but don't leave it with a possible issue when you can hedge your bets against it. And I haven't forgotten about the guyana rosewood neck. I just haven't had time to fiddle with it. Tonight, while I'm watching TV, I'll be laying out the measurements for the burl block inlays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 What I like here is the tiny imperfection in the continuity of the outline of the perfectly fitted inlay which tells that it's a one-off piece made by hands of a human - somehow it reminds me of the lettering in the posters by Toulouse-Lautrec ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Bizman62 said: What I like here is the tiny imperfection in the continuity of the outline of the perfectly fitted inlay which tells that it's a one-off piece made by hands of a human - somehow it reminds me of the lettering in the posters by Toulouse-Lautrec ! I was dearly hoping that nobody would notice that. It bugs the shit out of me. I know where I messed up in the process that resulted in the uneven arc. I'm seriously considering re-doing it, but I'm not sure I could pull it off. It's all because I got ahead of myself and cut out the whole thing before inlaying it. You're SUPPOSED to cut both pieces at once, as I did with the treble side. Like this, I had to try and re-trace the outline of what I had already cut. The blade wanted to bite into the inlay, causing it to wander a bit and wobble around the arc. Doing them in a stack like I was supposed to eliminates that completely. But if you see it as a positive, even comparing it to another Nouveau artist, I guess I can take the compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just as the Nouveau artists with their lettering, you've proved you can do a perfect arc. They could draw letters that look like done with a typewriter or other template. They could draw/paint photorealistic faces and animals. Instead they chose freehand - with strict rules about spacing for better readability! Same with yours: Perfectly fitted freehand form - or an impression of a shape if you will. I've got an old parlour guitar with a decorative bridge. Nothing fancy, it just narrows until it ends to a Fleur de Lys. The lilies aren't symmetric by any means, neither with each other nor by their left/right petals. To me it tells that someone has actually grabbed a file to get that shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 In other news.... I got the blocks for the inlays in the rosewood neck plotted out and cut this morning. I'm binding them in maple/black purfling. The double outline will really make them pop against the fretboard. Unfortunately, there's no fast way to do this as every piece has different dimensions. This is gonna take just all day long, sitting in front of the TV, adult beverage nearby...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 30, 2022 Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 Just thinking out loud... First I thought about making a wedge and cover it with veneers and then finally cut that into pieces. That might work but after some more thinking it's obvious that one piece at a time is a much better option. The laminated two colour veneer already speeds the process up sufficiently and is much less prone to errors. The second thought proved to pass by the second and even third round of pondering and that one is about your health! No, not about adult beverages - actually I just got a dram of peated Connemara I got from my Mother-in-Law for my birthday (she doesn't know that she gave that to me, yet). No, I'm talking about exotic wood dust and glue vapours. My imagination seats you into an easy chair in a dimly lit corner. In order to see what you're doing you'd have to lean over your work like Rowlf in the Muppet Show. And you can't wear a dust mask because of your hydrating agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2022 The only dust that evert got me was poplar. It gives me the dry heaves. After close to 15 years, if the exotic dust hasn't got me yet, if 2 ex wives haven't done me in, if the depression of losing my house to unemployment didn't get me, if growing up in Catholic grade school didn't get me, hospitalized for blood clots, thought I had a brain-killing stroke 2 years ago.... Hell, I died from Covid TWICE. If none of that crap did me in, I can take a little super glue fumes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2022 No progress this week. I had a 3-day weekend last week, so I have a 1-day weekend this time. Most of the day has to be spent prepping to leave Monday morning, so no time for this. I DID get in a few supplies. a 100 pack of BWB fiber purfling and 4 strings of 800 x 2 x 1.5 mm abalone. It was all Chinese. The purfling will be fine - it's hard to screw up. The abalone was just to give it a shot. Each string was only $5. If they don't work out, no big financial loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted June 5, 2022 Report Share Posted June 5, 2022 47 minutes ago, avengers63 said: a 100 pack of BWB fiber purfling and 4 strings of 800 x 2 x 1.5 mm abalone. It was all Chinese. I've found out that ordering by dozens costs almost the same as ordering just one. And if you have builder friends around you can often sell the extras to cover your entire cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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