Help! Middle position doesn’t work!

[SiZi]

Hi, I’m building a tele with a custom made P90 (braided wire) at the neck position and typical two wire single coil at bridge. I followed the diagram below from Fralin but for some reason I just cannot get both pickups to work in the middle position. Can anyone please help? 
 

[Bizman62]

A photo of your control plate would help.

[SiZi]

11 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

A photo of your control plate would help.

Sure will do tomorrow, thanks 

[Professor Woozle]

Is it the single coil that's not working with the switch in the middle position? I could be wildly wrong here, as electronics is not something I'm good at, but just wondering if F needs wiring to H to get the single coil output through to the volume pot in the middle position.

[Bizman62]

@Professor Woozle that is similar to a standard Tele wiring diagram, so most likely that's not the issue. That's from a guy who can read follow the lines on such diagrams but can't understand the real schematics.

 

 

[ADFinlayson]

Use a multimeter to determine which lugs on the switch are active when the selector is in the middle position, then make sure each pickup wire is bridged to the middle position lugs

[SiZi]

Thanks for the suggestions. Here are pics of the control plate, as well as diagrams to explain what I’ve done (because the pics are tough to see through clearly). I’ve also attached a diagram of what my switch and it’s lugs look like and named each lug to help you with suggestions. I truly appreciate  the support!

 

[SiZi]

And here is a pic of the exact switch 

 

[Bizman62]

If that drawing is accurate, your ground wiring is a bit off. B-D-E-G should connect to the lug of the pot. Instead you have C-D-E-F connected to ground.

[SiZi]

20 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

If that drawing is accurate, your ground wiring is a bit off. B-D-E-G should connect to the lug of the pot. Instead you have C-D-E-F connected to ground.

Just to clarify… are you suggesting that I should not connect CDEF with each other, but instead connect BDEG and connect the ground to BDEG?

just FYI, I tried to connect BDEG (with ground at F (as it was) but that didn’t work. 
 

Sorry, if these are silly questions, I just don’t understand the logic of how this wiring stuff works in spite of watching many videos 

 

[henrim]

Don’t connect any lugs of the switch to ground.

The body of the switch should be connected to ground though. The plate appears to be painted but I guess paint is removed under the pots and and switch.

Edited February 18, 2023 by henrim

[SiZi]

44 minutes ago, henrim said:

Don’t connect any lugs of the switch to ground.

The body of the switch should be connected to ground though. The plate appears to be painted but I guess paint is removed under the pots and and switch.

So I should remove ground and connect BDEG? Let me try that and report back. Thanks 

[henrim]

1 hour ago, SiZi said:

So I should remove ground and connect BDEG?

Yes. I’m not familiar with that switch but that’s how it is in the drawing. In any case you don’t want to kill the signal by routing it to ground.

[SiZi]

ok, here is how I have rewired it. But now none of the pickups work in any position. The neck and bridge only work  if I revert back to connecting CDEF with F also connected to the pot lug (but still none of pick ups work in the middle position)

Edited February 18, 2023 by SiZi

[curtisa]

Compare your latest sketch with the original diagram - you have got the bridging between the four lugs mirrored.

[curtisa]

Actually, scratch that. The photo of the switch you're using suggests it will not work if you just follow the original diagram as-is. There's some transposition you're going to have to do to make it work.

It's late in my time zone. Assuming no-one else manages to pick this up I can whip up a revised drawing for you in the morning if you like.

[SiZi]

39 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Actually, scratch that. The photo of the switch you're using suggests it will not work if you just follow the original diagram as-is. There's some transposition you're going to have to do to make it work.

It's late in my time zone. Assuming no-one else manages to pick this up I can whip up a revised drawing for you in the morning if you like.

I think the fact that my switch is different is causing me confusion. Yes I would greatly appreciate a diagram whenever convenient, thanks so much for the offer!

[Bizman62]

6 hours ago, SiZi said:

I just don’t understand the logic of how this wiring stuff works

I'm not good at it either but I've managed to follow that type of drawings...

What I've learned about wiring is that it's a loop starting and ending at the jack. Well, not actually, the loop continues through the amp but inside the guitar everything should make a loop from the hot to the ground of the jack, or alternative loops to be more exact.

And regarding your issue with the switch: Searching for DM-30 switch diagrams revealed that you're not alone, there's been many others struggling with the same problem! Apparently the switch is commonly used in Made In Japan Teles but the diagrams are harder to find. This is the clearest I could find using a DM-30: https://www.customworldguitarparts.com/netherlands/tele-wired-gold-control-plate-mighty-mite-orange-drop.html

But that's different to what was shown at https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-guitar-shop/6060590-dm-30-wiring-diagram?p=6060843#post6060843

[SiZi]

20 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I'm not good at it either but I've managed to follow that type of drawings...

What I've learned about wiring is that it's a loop starting and ending at the jack. Well, not actually, the loop continues through the amp but inside the guitar everything should make a loop from the hot to the ground of the jack, or alternative loops to be more exact.

And regarding your issue with the switch: Searching for DM-30 switch diagrams revealed that you're not alone, there's been many others struggling with the same problem! Apparently the switch is commonly used in Made In Japan Teles but the diagrams are harder to find. This is the clearest I could find using a DM-30: https://www.customworldguitarparts.com/netherlands/tele-wired-gold-control-plate-mighty-mite-orange-drop.html

But that's different to what was shown at https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-guitar-shop/6060590-dm-30-wiring-diagram?p=6060843#post6060843

Wow this is very different from what the regular switches require. No wonder I have been struggling! Because I have successfully wired up much more complicated set ups and was shocked that I couldn’t manage this simple 3 way switch! I’ll try these tomorrow morning and report back Thanks so much! If Curtisa manages to share a diagram I’ll try that too. I’ll keep everyone posted.

[curtisa]

The diagram that Biz shows is the one you want (thanks @Bizman62 ). The second one he links to will also work- it's taking the same switch but kinda utilising it back-to-front. 

[SiZi]

Yup, it worked  Thank you all so much!

[Bizman62]

At least for me this journey taught a lesson: Although that switch looks similar to the Oak/Grigsby, it's different. You can't trust just the looks.

[henrim]

17 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

At least for me this journey taught a lesson: Although that switch looks similar to the Oak/Grigsby, it's different. You can't trust just the looks.

I’d say say the actual lesson to learn here is that the multimeter is your friend

[Bizman62]

39 minutes ago, henrim said:

I’d say say the actual lesson to learn here is that the multimeter is your friend

Yepp. If you can use it. I can check the voltage of batteries with it.

[henrim]

8 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Yepp. If you can use it. I can check the voltage of batteries with it.

With normal guitar wirings the only thing you really need is continuity test. That’s the most simple thing a multimeter can do. No voltage, amperage, resistance or anything like that. Just a test whether current can flow between two points. And if it flows somewhere where it shouldn’t. That is all you need to get switch lugs figured out. If you leave electrics out of equation it is all just simple and-or logic.