BLS Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Next they'll sue us for buying the copies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratDudeDan Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 i'll admit, i don't really like the idea of lawsuits and money back and forth and big name guitar makers taking control and all that jazz. i'm more of the "let people do their thing and who cares if it's a better thing than yours" sorta attitude. i know that i'm building an SG copycat, and that it won't touch a real SG, though maybe 3 or 4 down the road, it will. i know that i used to own a fender strat, but had my uncle (professional carpenter/cabinet maker) build me a new body for it, and used the original fender body as the template (this was so i could experiment with finishing). none of my product will be of "fender" or "gibson" quality for quite some time, but if all of a sudden, i start making better guitars and selling them at local shops or to my friends or online, are they gonna hunt me down? plus, i'm all for making creative new body styles. my above copycats are for learning and experimenting. i love the mustang and jaguars of the world, the ibanez jetking 1, things most people don't know about. sure, my dean razor bass may have roots in a strat design for the body, but it's been tweaked and made to look original, and it's obvious that it is. i may love the strat body/pickgaurd/three pickup look and feel and weight, but if someone comes out with something new, innovative, and good looking, i'm gonna veer towards that one at the store the next time i'm there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 We'll if you think about it PRS's original design is basically a slightly altered Les Paul Jr. design. I figured Gibson let that go, since it was some design changes, but this latest PRS single cutaway probably broke the camels back. I don't blame Gibson for doing that since it was their design in the first place. Check out just how close the PRS is to the Les Paul Jr. Les Paul Jr. Paul Reed Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Not all that close. The bottom is rounder on the LP. The PRS has the longer top horn. However put a PSR santana III, a Hamer Archtop, and a LP DC side by side and the body outline is the same, and the hamer and PRS have the same headstock. So, yes PRS stole that design, but not for anything but the Santana. And just for the record, I do not condone PRS's business practices, but I dont agree they should have been sued for this. But being as PRS will sue anyone the feel like, I say let em eat their sour grapes. I hope the choke! (especially after their lawyer threatened to sue me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 (especially after their lawyer threatened to sue me). Do tell!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 WHen I was designing my guitars, I checked out multiple copyrights. I liked the PRS cutaway. In the catalog it mentioned the scoop was TM. Didnt know what the hell the scoop was. Also didnt see how PRS trademarked stolen designs (Santana III=Hamer Archtop; PRS headstock=1970's Gibson acoustics). So I called them, and also asked if their guitars were hand made. Left the stolen designs out of it. So their lawyer calls me and starts giving me the Spanish inquisition. I inform him that I am starting to build guitars and am wondering what the "PRS Scoop" is. He says that I cannot use a cove bit, or anything else to shave the top of the cutaway down , or PRS will sue me. He also let me know that if Paul Smith saw any part of my design to be taken from any PRS guitar, charges would be pressed. He also addressed that PRS guitars are "entirely hand made. I asked if he had a catalog handy, and he did. I said, "Well, in that case what is the CNC machine doing on page 14?" or something to the same effect. The dude had an undertaker kind of voice. Like a demon possesed man. Anyway, he said he was going to see if Paul wanted to press harrassment charges. Does my design resemble a PRS? Does your's Perry? Oh $#!+! we are in big trouble! And, just how was that harrassment? Probably why charges weren't filed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 the company that made better guitars and cheaper guitars and made more profit (in Japan) compared to Fender, so fender bought them!! they are now Squire as for the PRS i prefer the PRS guitars far far more, as they make qualitae instruments and they look much much nicer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 From strolling through their website, Hamer still has an active "Made in the USA" component, which as far as I can tell still uses the same staff and machines that it always has...? Either that, or the original owner maintains some seriously strong ties to the company.... last i heard,there were 2 completely seperate grades of hamers...handmade in usa,and the lower end mass produced foreign models. just like bc rich and the handmades are VERY nice and play and sound good,while the others are imo not worth playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 That's the impression I'm under, too. None of the local stores stock the Made in the USA ones, unfortunately. I was pretty gung-ho to get one of the foreign ones, having heard that the quality is still good, and having SEEN that they look pretty snazzy. So I went down to the local shop.... Well, I walked out without the Hamer, and spent less money at a different shop on a guitar twice as good-- the Godin LG, which IS made in the US, with Seymour Duncan pickups. I still respect the handcrafted Hamers, though. I'd love to have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 they only make a small number of them a year...that's why you can't find them...you have to order them and there is a backlog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 WHen I was designing my guitars, I checked out multiple copyrights. I liked the PRS cutaway. In the catalog it mentioned the scoop was TM. Didnt know what the hell the scoop was. Also didnt see how PRS trademarked stolen designs (Santana III=Hamer Archtop; PRS headstock=1970's Gibson acoustics). So I called them, and also asked if their guitars were hand made. Left the stolen designs out of it. So their lawyer calls me and starts giving me the Spanish inquisition. I inform him that I am starting to build guitars and am wondering what the "PRS Scoop" is. He says that I cannot use a cove bit, or anything else to shave the top of the cutaway down , or PRS will sue me. He also let me know that if Paul Smith saw any part of my design to be taken from any PRS guitar, charges would be pressed. He also addressed that PRS guitars are "entirely hand made. I asked if he had a catalog handy, and he did. I said, "Well, in that case what is the CNC machine doing on page 14?" or something to the same effect. The dude had an undertaker kind of voice. Like a demon possesed man. Anyway, he said he was going to see if Paul wanted to press harrassment charges. Does my design resemble a PRS? Does your's Perry? Oh $#!+! we are in big trouble! And, just how was that harrassment? Probably why charges weren't filed Well, im safe, my "vine" doesnt even fit a standard case, let alone a PRS one (neck angle is too large, so it requires an extra depth case, and the upper horn is way too long for the std shapes). The upper horn is a good inch and a half longer, the lower bout is perfect LP though. I might patent the "under maple set neck", the "vine", the "compund carved top", the "natural binding", and "six strings attached to metal and/or bone, and/or wood". That'll teach em all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 if you build a guitar like a PRS with no intention on selling it will this violate copyright and piss em off? cos i love the PRS singlecut, it looks soo nice, but i couldnt afford one, so i was thinkin of makin one for a while..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I was just stating that we both make carved top double cuts with the bass horn longer than the top. But what difference does it make? PRS got what they deserve. Bill quoted this verse in another thread. It applies here, tooDo not be decieved. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Well, paul how's it feel to start reaping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Personally, i love PRS, they are an inspiration, mainly for their wood choice, but overall to. But they got what they deserve. You cant rip off a design, AND then use an ex-gibson employee (ted mcarty) to help promote your guitars.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I agree. Without PRS, none of the beautiful guitars we have now would have been produced. McNaught, McInturff, us, and right on down the line. PRS makes a quality instrument, but I still dont agree with their business practices. You cant rip off a company, and use their Ex President to sell your product. Thatwas dumb. But then so was suing Warmoth and everone else they felt like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 But that doesn't mean I wont buy the PRS SE EG as soon as I have the cash. I wont be afraid to reshape the heel, and honestly, It looks and sounds awesome. Never heard single coils sound like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry_jeremy Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 So as long as I don't try to sell it I can copy whoever I want? Conversely, if I want to try to sell a guitar it has to be pretty different from other body styles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannoG Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Let's all reflect on the reason copyright laws exist. To protect original creative work, so that it can not be copied for profit, thus depriving the creator of the benefit of of their work. This idea should not be applied any differently to individuals or big corporations. When Kench Buyers ripped of Project Guitar and other folks by selling CDs of their work it was wrong. If a big company has a design, they too have a right to keep others from exploiting it. The fairness of it is the same even if there are wealthy board of directors invovled. I think that this is all a big mess and I don't really feel sorry for any of the litigants invovled in any of what has been talked about. But the concept of copyright protection is valid and needs to be enforced. As long as most of us are small, hobbiest types, we won't have any pressure from the big guys. If any of us get bigger and more successful (or call attention to ourselves by contacting Fender or Gibson, no matter how well intentioned that contact may be), then watching out for copyright violations is just part of doing business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLS Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I agree that PRS deserves all the lawsuits they get. But its just the principal, that theirs so many les paul copies that if gibson started to sue every company that made a single cut, well everyone would be screwed. I read on harmony central that only a 10% change is required to avoid a lawsuit, but i think the PRS single cut is already 10% different so this could be a lie. I really wonder whats gonna happen when Fender starts to sue everyone for using their strat body.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry_jeremy Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 How would you quantify a change in shape? *Now with 10% more cutaway!* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLS Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 LMAO! Esp is just asking for it, that model dosent even have the pointy horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Well, I walked out without the Hamer, and spent less money at a different shop on a guitar twice as good-- the Godin LG, which IS made in the US, with Seymour Duncan pickups. Just to clarify... Godin bodies and necks are actually made in Canada. They're only assembled in New Hampshire. I'm curious that no official statement has been released directly either from Gibson or PRS. You'd think they'd both be trying to spin some positive PR on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickleweaseler Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I just don't get it. People say Gibson® guitars are overpirced. Then the same people say that PRS® guitars are nice and they love them. PRS® guitars are not exactly what I would call inexpensive. For the price of a high price PRS® you can get a Gibson® of comperable value. I saw a PRS® Dragon (not sure which one) the other day. Supposedly they are worth tens of thosands of dollars. I just can't imagine any guitar being 20 times better than my carefully selected Gibson® Les Paul. Even if it does have a magical inlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onny_custom Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 PRS is not same with the Gibson, many diferent to describe that! 1. Head Stock! 2. Body size 3. Body arch 4. Inlay 5. Trus rods 6. Fret 7. Scale... ????????? so...no problem..okey!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Well, I walked out without the Hamer, and spent less money at a different shop on a guitar twice as good-- the Godin LG, which IS made in the US, with Seymour Duncan pickups. Just to clarify... Godin bodies and necks are actually made in Canada. They're only assembled in New Hampshire. Right... it depends on your perspective, I suppose. As a Canadian myself, I didn't want to get all nationalistic or anything (as we tend to), because to me, the true attention to detail happens when the pieces come together into a guitar anyhow. Using the word 'assembled' is appropriate, I guess, but more than anything it helps get rid of the poor aesthetic of saying, "Made in the USA from parts made in Canada", you know? Bottom line: LG is a kick ass guitar... and for $550 Cdn new, or the $360 Cdn used that I paid, it's a true steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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