Using the black stewmac dye without adding water?

[GuitarMaestro]

Hi!

I want to stain a quilted maple top first black, then sand back and then stain it with blue. I practiced this on scrap and found out that the black stewmac dye gives me really good results only if I mix it about 1:8 with water and apply several coats bevore sanding back. On the package stewmac recommends mixing it 1:32. Am I doing something wrong or is that usual? Are there any possible negative side-effects of using the stain in such a high concentration?

Thanks,

MK!

[Scott Rosenberger]

I think the manufacturers recommendations are a good starting point but your results may vary. I don't see anything wrong with using a stronger mix. I prefer a weaker mixture and multiple coats but it's just my personal preference

[Drak]

What kind of dye are you using, water-based? In which case, yes, mix it strong like you are doing.

After experimenting around, I've settled on using Solar Lux Black alcohol-based dye as my black basecoat, but it's not a necessity to use just that, any black will do if it's strong enough. Dan Erlewine even recommends silver-grey under blue, but thats just his way, that's why practicing on scrap is always recommended 'till you find what you like.

I think what you're doing is fine, mix it as strong as you want.

[GuitarMaestro]

Thanks for the answers!

Yes I use the concentrated liquid dyes from stemac. They can be mixed water or alcohol. I usually mix them with water. Is there an advantage if you mix them with alcohol?

[decalshopmike]

I've used the stewmac dies with water and always mix them up stronger than their directions unless I'm deliberately trying to get a really washed out look to the colour.

For really dark colours I apply the stain direct to the wood and then wipe over with a damp cloth to get an even spread - especially on black and dark brown this is the only good method I've found unless you want to put on loads of coats ( which isnt a good idea if the top is veneered as it can cause ripples ! ).

[GuitarMaestro]

For really dark colours I apply the stain direct to the wood and then wipe over with a damp cloth to get an even spread - especially on black and dark brown this is the only good method I've found unless you want to put on loads of coats ( which isnt a good idea if the top is veneered as it can cause ripples ! ).

Thanks for the info. Would you recommend to use it directly for just getting the black base of a quilted maple and then doing the colorcoat afterwards or is the black to brutal to sand it out then????

[guitar_ed]

Hi Maestro,

You asked if there are any advantages to using alchohol rather than water for your dyes. There is one advantage: Alchohol will not raise, or pop, the grain. Water will. Personally, I use water, but that is a choice based on nothing.

Guitar Ed

[GuitarMaestro]

There is one advantage: Alchohol will not raise, or pop, the grain. Water will. Personally, I use water, but that is a choice based on nothing.

Ah....that makes sense....thanks for the info! So far the water based dye did not raise the grain that much so I will not switch to alcohol then....

[Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars]

While we are discussing it, Are the wate based Metal Acid dyes from LMII any good? They say they have the best color integrety.

[GuitarMaestro]

@Litch: Difficult question....you'll have to ask someone that builds guitars for QUITE some time, in order to get a good answer concerning the color fastness....

[decalshopmike]

"Thanks for the info. Would you recommend to use it directly for just getting the black base of a quilted maple and then doing the colorcoat afterwards or is the black to brutal to sand it out then????"

You should still be able to sand out OK, but I'd test on a scrap piece first to see how it comes out - personally I dont really like the stained black then colourcoated finish as it tends to kill the 3D effect of the maple ( basically looks like a picture of maple rather than real maple ).

My usual method if I need to darken the figure is to use a darker version of the main colour, i.e. dark blue, sand back, then tinted lighter blue lacquer etc...

[GuitarMaestro]

Thanks!

My usual method if I need to darken the figure is to use a darker version of the main colour, i.e. dark blue, sand back, then tinted lighter blue lacquer etc...

And that does not kill the 3d-effect? As far as know from my experiments on scrap

this didn't make much difference, but maybe I used the blue in a too high concentration already????

[decalshopmike]

It seems to kill the figure if the darkening coat is pretty much a solid colour - my fault for not explaining more clearly - what I do for the darkening coat is to make sure it is still transparent, then when I go to put the top coat on, I try and make this half as light again, so if I were doing it all with water stains it would go :

1) 1st coat of 8 to 1 dilution blue stain ( i.e 8 parts water to 1 part stain

2) sand back, not necessarily enough to completely remove the blue in between the darker lines, depends how much contrast you need.

3) 2nd coat of 16 to 1 stain

4) Clear lacquer

Having the first coat still see through seems to preserve the 3D of the maple but still gives a nice contrast against the light and dark. This method also works well if you use 2 different complimentary colours for the 2 coats like purple and blue, red and yellow ( putting the darker colour down as the base )

Saying all this however - it does depend on the quality of the maple you start with, I try and get stuff that has a lot of natural difference between the light and dark rather than a very pale figure, and you can often just tint lacquer this and the natural colours give enough difference for me.

I think a lot of it does vary from piece of wood to piece of wood, so it is always best to try on some scrap if possible as some seems to need more work than others to get the results !

[GuitarMaestro]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation!!!!