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Sustainer Ideas


psw

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Guys I have another probably stupid question. I specialise.

What about using a piezo bridge as a sustainer driver?

Tonemonkey was right this is an epic thread!

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welcome joshvegas

Yes, well it is a "little" silly, but not silly enough for me not to try it. Sorry, a conventional piezo makes minute signals from pressure sensed by the crystals in the material, you use a preamp to get them up to a level suitable for amplification. Getting them to jump around in reverse under the weight of the strings (which is considerable) certainly is unlikely with conventional piezos in my estimation....I never had much luck with experiments on buzzers and such. I did try an look into some industrial strength things to see if there was anything promising there, but did not find anything really, these things are mainly sensors of vibration...but hey, someone else might have more luck.

Vibrating the moving string can be a little easier...the string is already vibrating at the frequency which you are feeding it. Acoustic Sustainers like the "model C" sustainiac attach to the headstock for leverage and to keep the thing away from the pickups and send several watts of mains powered amp signal into it to physically shake the guitar. I tried some similar smaller scale things like a small cut down speaker to try and shake the tremolo bridge in a strat...not really that good and lots of EMI right under the pickups. Also, the higher frequencies are very tricky to replicate mechanically, once a bridge or something like that gets moving it has momentum that can be hard to counteract and with higher frequencies you need to be able to do that without lag at 1000's of hertz, a big ask!

The magnetic sustainer combined with a piezo pickup is a good combination as the piezos are immune from the EMI. So, a modification to a variax would be a tempting combo...perhaps they should contact me....hehehehe.... You could attach one to an electro acoustic guitar and I think Curtisa tested this a bit more.

pete

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@psw,

Thanks again for the feedback, what kind of switch is a 3way 4pdt?

right it should say 4p3t ...four pole three throw (position) switch I think. Basically you need about 4 separate switches switching at once. One switch to turn the power on, one to select the pickup with or without sustainer and two to change the driver wires for a harmonic effect.

I actually found some and imported them from hong kong to try them with stuff, a mini toggle switch however...I am not sure that even this would do what you would like it to. A five way super-switch as for a strat or a 4 pole 3 position rotary which is similar and a lot of nutting out the wiring will be required. Far easier is a simple on off toggle and harmonic toggle. However, if you want the thing to look "stock" (possibly a good idea if you aren't assured of success as with any DIY project) then perhaps plan for push pull pots. With a single bridge pickup, a lot of the problems of EMI and such are easier. Especially the switching problems, you only need turn the device on and off (a simple switch on the power) and a dpdt to change two the harmonic function. Being able to do the functions of these plus the selection obviously takes a combination of all these and may be very hard to find anything suitable.

Good luck... pete

ps...it is always best to build and test the circuit and driver on the guitar by holding it above the neck to be sure it works before drilling or modding any guitar. Some have had success with this while many others have given up in frustration, some have failed because of lack of skill and attention to detail, a few have had trouble despite that. A lot of people have been captivated by the device and won't leave it alone and it is kind of addictive and fun to play when it is working.

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Okey thanks!

So if I read correct, it is a possibility to have a volume and a tone knob which also function as push pull pots for switching? This way I would have 2 knobs and no switch which of course looks better!

I hope it's going to work out, I'm going to use the middle single coil that I'm taking out of the guitar to build the driver. I haven't got the guitar here yet though, so about halfway next month I'll start.

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Yes...with a single pickup and a separate driver, it should be a matter of one switch to turn it on and another to switch the wires around which any dpdt switch of push pull can handle. The complications start when you need to bypass other pickups and such.

A lot depends on the build quality and such too...so plan and take your time and expect perhaps to wind the coil (maybe 10 minutes work) a couple of times if it doesn't work out just right the first time. Winding onto a bobbin makes it easier, use plenty of PVA, see how I did it in the pictorial listed in the links at the bottom of my posts.

What you do with the selector I don't know...just leave it in there I guess unconnected...or make a kill switch out of it...hehehehe

Best of luck... pete

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hm... I'm aiming to fit a fernandes sustainer with a pearly gates bridge pickup, alongside 2 texas special strat pu's. This will make the guitar look like an HSH when it's really an HSS. I'm also aiming to have coil splitting and an equivalent of an fender-s1 switch on the guitar I'm building. Is this an impossible dream? I don't care if the sustainer only works in 1 pickup position or anything. let me know before I do it please :D

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Welcome to PG and the sustainer thread DCobb...

This is a tall order and I am not sure how to answer it at all. Fernandes and sustainiac both have systems that require electronic switching and it looks very much like, at least to me, that so too will a DIY sustainer to switch noiselessly with any more than one pickup (although it may be good enough for most or an answer may yet be found). Both I believe use their neck driver as an active pickup...from my short time with the sustainiac, it would appear that this sounds pretty good.

Sustainiac have a lot more support and detail but suggest that complex systems are limited. I am not sure now with the stealth plus systems with active neck pickups that they are encouraging the use of a rail or other pickup next to it anymore. Fernandes I believe have fairly cryptic instructions and little to no support and their higher end systems appear to come with their own proprietory bridge humbucker too....so it is difficult to see if this is necessary for success too.

Both strongly suggest that you get a registered installer to do the job and it certainly will be tricky and support is likely to be required. What you are proposing does appear to indicate that routing of the guitar will be necessary and the wiring will take some time to work out, do and test and troubleshoot.

As little is known here about either system in this regards it is support that is unlikely to be readily had from here, I'm afraid.

The difficulty is that the circuit needs to switch all pickups and bypass them select the bridge, etc, etc. The S-1 requires extensive rewiring so that series splits and parallels are made available, then be controlled by the S-1 thing then back to the output and out. This may well be more than the circuit was designed or capable of doing.

I am not sure about the fernandes system, but sustainiac did have mounting components for a pickup beside the driver, check with their site, and suggested a rail pickup (possibly as the bi-lateral driver design seems to effect the magnetism of a single coil pickup pretty radically). I suspect the mounting "ears" of the single coil pickup would need to be sawn off just to fit inside an HB slot...or something cleaver with the scratch plate design.

All has gone quiet on this thread of late though I keep a close eye on it still. Presently I have put my sustainer projects on hold while I explore a few other guitar making and playing ideas. I hope those with projects in the works are still with us and I am sure that, as it has happened before, this lull will be a precursor to some more development. I mentioned that I have recieved email from at least one guy who has successfully done this on his own with a little innovative tweaking and I know others are likely to be out there doing it for themselves.

Good luck...pete.

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Thanks for your support and ideas, that gives me a lot to think about :D I'll probably be altering the electronics heavily even of the sustainer until I find a way to achieve this :S. Ths thing is I'm going to rear rout the guitar for H S H and place the sustainer to the bridge side of the neck pickup if possible, but I'd prefer to keep the actual pickup sounds as bluesey as possible (being a blues man), so I'm wondering if it's possible to have the sustainer next to a texas special even if the sustainer's only ever on when the bridge humbucker is on it's own? Any more ideas?

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Hi

I doubt all you wish for will be possible...I understand why you think you need these things, but not everything is possible no matter how hard you try, so I hope you are prepared to compromise. Sustainer technology is a fine balancing act at best. Fernandes until recently only ever offered their device built into their own guitars...for good reason, it is a difficult enough when the parameters for a good working condition are known!

They designed the driver to replace the pickup in the neck position and made it so that it would work as an active pickup. It is designed to be placed as far from the bridge pickup as possible, so moving it even 1/2" closer could make a lot of difference.

Magnets unavoidably interact, putting a pickup next to the driver will cause adverse side effects to both the pickup and the driver even if the devices are not electrically connected in any way. A bi-lateral driver for instance, up against the neck pickup in my tele displayed a serious neutralization of signal on half of the strings!!! A sustainiac is similar technology, a fernandes is unknown in it's current form.

Further, I have been doing this for some 4-5 years now and I am presently stumped on the electronic switching side of things for similar complexity of pickups...I am not sure that fernandes have made provisions for what you are seeking to do. There are those interested in developing DIY versions specifically to address the shortcomings of commercial devices like these including in my case the use of conventional passive pickups of your choice in the neck position, as in my own case.

Fernandes also have boards with switching attached and give very little detail of how the thing is working as far as I can tell. Help is practically non-existent and I have had a lot of feedback from people over the years that they have been challenged to install either system, even as it was designed to be used. Modifying it sounds like a tall order for anyone.

----------- WARNING...side rant only vaguely related, largely off topic...enjoy or disregard! -----------

Beware the idea of what a "Bluesman" should sound like. Remember blues has and can be played on all manner of instruments and there is a lot of mojo about pickups or what a "blues sound" actually is. Your choice of texas specials indicates a desire to sound like SRV, overwound conventional fenders developed in tribute, but he also used a lipstick equiped strat, the exact opposite pickup design, yet he still sounded like SRV and he certainly sounded "bluesy". There are "bluesmen" with strats, teles, flying-v's, 335's to name the obvious ones, but the early guys played whatever they could get their hands on. There are purists who would insist that any complications, especially a sustainer would fall way outside of tradition and so would be undesirable...of course this would not have stopped a Jimi Hendrix, SRV's biggest influence and a great innovative blues player.

My own history saw my influences stem from the british blues movement of the sixties. So influenced was I that I bought and played continuously the one black Les Paul for 20 years in imitation of the EC inspired choice of the time. In the last ten I was inspired to eventually move across to the fender side of things with cheap modified strats. Todays main guitar is a modified tele. All are perfectly capable "blues guitars". Just as a standard tele was the main guitar for all the early Led Zeppelin stuff, dispelling the country tag. EVH used to play a 335 but the band idin't like the "look" of the thing, though loved the sound!

A huge impact of the sound is also in the amplification and how you use it too. Potentially far greater than that of the instrument you run into it.

Don't get me wrong though, blues or not, I encourage experimentation...in blues and in music generally, it is a quest to "find your own voice" by whatever means and then using it to speak whatever it is you are trying to express. Some might consider that selecting pickups that are expressly aimed to mimic another's voice is possibly starting off with a bit of a hurdle in itself....hehehe. But really, the equipment is nothing like as important as what it is you are trying to say and what "voice" you are using to say it. Blues music is very formulaic, there is a vocabulary of chord progressions and licks and styles, often very repetitive. The virtuosity is in the phrasing and the voice...the reason a BB King can justifiably defend the "king of the blues" tag is that his voice on the guitar is so distinctive in every single note regardless of equipment.

So...if it turns out that your guitar's neck pickup is just that tad closer to the middle or if you have only one pickup and explore the very many sounds and techniques of the sustainer (as many seem to do in this thread, largely because it is a lot easier I suspect...so why not, if it is enough!) to play the blues...all the more likely it will aid in the exploration of your own voice with the restrictions we all have placed upon us by accident of birth (location, influences, time and accent) and of physiology (our physical vocal chords or the equipment at our disposal).

On pickup placement, a very important thing was once pointed out on another thread here to consider. The bridge pickup's bright and harmonically complex sound comes from it's location at the end of the string (the bridge). A neck pickup has it's sound derived from it's location closer to the middle part of the strings vibration and so a smoother rounder tone with more fundamental. But this is a partial myth. As you fret a string the length changes and as you play higher up the neck the relative position of the neck pickup changes so when playing at the highest fret, the effective endpoint of the string is right up against the neck pickup, often closer than the other end is to the bridge pickup and with all the same complexities and shortfalls/benefits. In short, at higher fretted locations, the neck pickups location relative to the length of the string radically changes as the string effectively gets shorter.

So...movement of your neck pickup a little closer in is no more tone damaging than it would be if you play above the 5th fret perhaps. Where it does make a bit of difference is that with open strings, it's location around the node at the 24th fret is perhaps a desirable tone...but is one a little closer less so. The sound of canceling pickups, the inbetween setting of a strat are affected so the neck middle "quack" will be different for sure...more or less bluesy is entirely up to you!

--------

Disregard my little rant, sustainer's are not high on my mind and I just woke up and the coffee hit hard perhaps. It is very hard to predict what this thing will eventually sound like, for one thing to install a sustainer from fernandes you are going to have to route out a seriously big space for circuit, let alone an accessible battery on a guitar (strat) which is essentially hollow as it is with all those trem springs and such.

Good luck, and remember the blues in in your hands and soul, it is in the hole you dig, not the shovel you use to dig it with...errr...dig!!!! Now, more Java....

pete

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Is it possible to use the signal from a piezo pickup to drive a sustainer system? If this is the case, would it make sense to use a low-profile piezo pickup along with a mid position driver in a sustainer system that is independent of the regular magnetic pickups? In that case, the normal pickups would operate normally and the sustainer circuitry would be completely separate. The sound of the piezo itself would not be sent through to the amp at all. It seems that this would offer an advantage in that the sustainer would be solely for the purpose of continuous string vibration.

Or is this a bit far-fetched? I am largely ignorant of the theory involved, but reading over the last couple pages of the thread, this is what I've come up with.

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Welcome LarsXI, and thanks for entering in some ideas...

Is it possible to use the signal from a piezo pickup to drive a sustainer system?

Yes it is, on a true acoustic electric the non-magnetic brass components of the wound strings will give some different responses (only the inner string is really steel), but yes it does work. Ideally you would devise a preamp system that smoothed out the high end and quacky nature of piezos. It was followint this idea a while back that got me into the idea of DIY piezos for electric guitars, one I am working on at the moment as it happens...

If this is the case, would it make sense to use a low-profile piezo pickup along with a mid position driver in a sustainer system that is independent of the regular magnetic pickups?

Yes..it would seem logical...effectively an on board six string mounted eBow using the piezos to feed the signal in and a magnetic driver to move the strings...seems logical...

In that case, the normal pickups would operate normally and the sustainer circuitry would be completely separate.

Ah-ha...but this is where it starts to fall apart. A magnetic driver and magnetic pickups are not separate, unless by distance. Whenever two magnetic devices get close there will be some interaction, they will attract or repell and so too an alternating pulse will be sensed by a guitar's pickup just as it does the vibration of am metal string...or the transformer of a halogen lamp, or the ticking of a digital watch (two things that have bugged me over the years...hehehe)....

The sound of the piezo itself would not be sent through to the amp at all.

Well, actually....the sound of the piezo is likely to be heard as heavily amplified and coupled magnetically to nearby pickups...

It seems that this would offer an advantage in that the sustainer would be solely for the purpose of continuous string vibration.

I think there are advantages to keeping the systems separate, maybe significant ones...so much so I did put some effort...but only some...in exploring this avenue. However, many of the same old problems would still exist in one form or another I suspect and you are adding complexity and modifications to the instrument even more so than using an existing pickup system.

I often cite the Variax design as something with a lot of potential here though. Here is a new generation of modeling instruments with no magnetic pickups (only a piezo bridge) and so interaction between a magnetic driver and it's only pickup system should be nil...at least magnetically. Also, it has on board power and digital modeling that could be...if developed...used to create the ideal signal and possibly some very interesting variations on it to create different kinds of sustain and harmonic effects independent of the sound it is modeling itself (obviously this would require sophisticated secondary effect and modeling processors and certainly beyond DIY...in case anyone has any ideas along those lines).

Or is this a bit far-fetched? I am largely ignorant of the theory involved, but reading over the last couple pages of the thread, this is what I've come up with.

No...not far fetched and good for you for putting on the lateral thinking hat.

The main problems largely result from Electromagnetic Interferance (EMI) as a result of the coupling of two magnetic devices...the pickups and the driver. The strategy of distance between the too devices has been the major way in which this has been controlled. Different innovative driver designs may be able to allow something to work closer...maybe your idea may significantly help here too...not sure.

A mid driver is always going to be a tall order. The strategies that tend to contain EMI also have a tendency to lower the efficiency...to get a similar performance often there is a tendency to increase the power...and so the EMI up to or beyond that of even a simple driver that would work further away.

So...possibly not an answer to the problems involved but worthy of discussion. Also, just because I tried something, it is always to be understood it is only been within my limited abilities and experience. While I may have abandoned such things as dead-enders to the ultimate goal, that may well only be due to my limitations or lack of skill, knowledge or some technology I am not aware of.

thanks again...

pete

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Hi all!

I just started on a Sustainer project, and have some questions!

1: I can only seem to find lacquered cobber wire in 0,2mm - Will that work? or should the wire be unisolated (without lacquer)

Here is a picture of the wire:

wik.jpg

2: Would any ~5w amplifier do the job? or will you suggest building one ecxactly like eg. JEM ?

3: My "bobbin" has varius "pickup" heights. Take a look at this picture:

pickuphm6.jpg

Does this matter? Or should I cut down the height, so they will be equal height?

Thanks for this endless thread! :D

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A little update.

Drove to the nearest electronic-shop.

He diden't have the J201 Jfet, but sold me an BFW11 instead:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.co.kr/datasheet-p...ROLA/BFW11.html

How the heck do I connect that one? Thats one old bastard!

What comon part, can I use instead of J201 ? With the same quality

(Edit: I got some 2N5551 - would that do it?)

Edited by tcdk
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Hmm, I have a different kind of question. If you place a sustainer next to another pickup, would it affect that pickup after the sustainer was switched off? Also, would it be possible to have a kind of S S H layout where the sustainer is only turned on (or even able to be turned on) on one pickup setting, without it interfering with the other settings?

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Welcome tcdk

That looks like a good bobbin....no don't cut it, just block up the bottom leaving space at the top to wind the driver coil of about 3mm and use PVA (see pictorial of mine in link below as a guide)...

1: I can only seem to find lacquered cobber wire in 0,2mm - Will that work?

Yes...the wire must be insulated...or lacquered...scrape the lacker to test resistance to know when to stop (8ohms) and to solder the lead wires to it when finished. Also wrap electrical tape tightly around the coil and hold the sides in while the glue sets BTW.

2: Would any ~5w amplifier do the job? or will you suggest building one ecxactly like eg. JEM ?

No...a 5 watt amplifier will not run from battery and is way too much power. Generally people use LM386 based amps like the Fetzer Ruby or the Ruby itself which has a preamp or buffer to prevent loading.

He didn't have the J201 Jfet, but sold me an BFW11 instead:

If you look on the front page of that data sheet, you can see the numbers of the drain source and gain pins. Additionally it appears to have another pin that grounds the metal case...so connect to ground!

Compare pins to J201 http://pdf1.alldatasheet.co.kr/datasheet-p...CHILD/J201.html

and to the circuit which should have the location of pins D,S,G marked. Beware turning them upside down reverses the pins out...make sure you are reading it right. Be careful of soldering heat as this can adversely effect things. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help with this substitution.

DCobb...sorry about my bluesman rant...sometimes I don't get enough sleep...as it is it is 4:22am as I write this....

Anyway...

if you place a sustainer next to another pickup, would it affect that pickup after the sustainer was switched off?

Yes...this is what I was saying...the driver incorporates a magnet so putting one right next to another will effect it as the magnet in the pickup will be strongly attracted (or repelled) to the magnet in the driver...changing the shape and "power" of the magnetic field. This is often overlooked for instance where people suggest sticking two single coil pickups next to each other to get an HB that will split to a true single coil. Not a bad idea, it couls sound ok...but it will not sound the same as the single coil without another magnetic device right up against it...on or off the magnet remains "on"...right!?

This is one of the reasons that I have for some time developed the "piggyback" coil on top of the pickup as this adds no magnetism to effect the strings vibration, is discrete, uses the existing magnet and mounting of the pickup itself and allows for the true pickup sound when not in use. In particular I mentioned adverse effects between string sets with a bi-lateral sustainiac like driver next to a single coil pickup...something perhaps relevant to others presently experimenting with such designs.

A single coil, single polarity driver next to a pickup won't necessarily sound bad, understand. It may spread the magnetic field of the pickup working alone in the manner of a P-90 for instance, or diminish the power for less output (depending on the effect of the two together)...it may allow a slightly closer to the bridge mounted single coil sense the string vibration over both the neck driver and pickup too.

As always, only experimentation will tell and results are not guarenteed.

Best in all cases to build the circuit and driver and test it outside the guitar before contemplating any modifications to pickups or the guitar itself. Once happy that you have the thing working, then worry about how you are going to get it in there. Prove to yourself you can do this successfully, even if a second driver needs to be made, especially if contemplating modifying a pickup...make a working separate driver first...I did!

Also, would it be possible to have a kind of S S H layout where the sustainer is only turned on (or even able to be turned on) on one pickup setting, without it interfering with the other settings?

I am not sure exactly what you mean...perhaps it is too early. A magnet will affect things a little regardless of the sustainer being on or off. When on, it will only work with the bridge pickup and all other circuitry within the guitar will need to be completely isolated (not just deselected). This is a tall order. A super switch could perhaps be rigged so that the sustainer is on in one position only. This only leaves 4 positions for normal play. This would not necessarily fix the switching problems associated with multi-pickup guitars which I must confess and have gone on about at length...has me slightly stumped. As a result mu own H/S/S strat is hanging on the wall with the guts hanging out waiting a solution while I take a break from sustainer stuff in general.

Yes...that's right, I don't have all the answers...if I did, this thread would be a lot shorter and an explanation and instructions so much easier. Perhaps others who have done this successfully if still about would like to chip in with any advice they might have.

Good luck...now it is back to sleep for me!

pete

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Ok, will try with the BFW11 instead.

This thin 0,2mm wire sucks! It breaks! almost when im at 60-80 rounds :D

I have glued some acrylic on the bobbin to make it 3mm height. What I was talking about with the height, was the "pins" on the pickup. Should the be even height?

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What I was talking about with the height, was the "pins" on the pickup. Should the be even height?

Yes I know...that's fine...leave them be.

You break 0.2mm wire winding by hand...impossible!!! Don't ever try winding a pickup then, that stuff is hair width (0.063mm or something), now that breaks. Trying to wind it by machine is not advisable BTW, it should only take about 10 minutes or so and is much better as more care can be taken in the process.

You do want as few air gaps as possible but winding too tight will stretch and thin the wire and probably compromise the insulation...not good. The ends will automatically be tighter, the sides may stand out a little...consult the pictorial. I used a stick to push the sides in as I went every so often to make it more consistant. If it is breaking, you are doing it wrong...what can I say!~

Also...it may take a couple of goes to get one that you really like...it can take a little practice...if you use the PVA/wood glue method, it can all be removed and started again.

pete

PS...there are possibly some mods that may help the circuit, provide details of what you intend, perhaps post the layout with DIY layout (storm software) which I have often linked which also has circuits for the amps mentioned and is free and will help a lot.

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Heres one for you all. How about a seperate unit that you run a lead into that has a sustainer circuit and a pickup on a board with, say, twelve strings to make an octave. Will the driver work on these strings or will it only work to keep a string vibrating once its vibrating, I'm not sure. I'm thinking it would create some interesting effects if you split your signal and ran one lead into an amp normally and had another running through this unit then into an amp. Basically what I'm asking though is would the sustainer work on the stationary strings in the unit?

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Hi Andrew...

How about a separate unit that you run a lead into that has a sustainer circuit and a pickup on a board with, say, twelve strings to make an octave.

What an strange and wonderful idea...not sure of the use of it...

Will the driver work on these strings or will it only work to keep a string vibrating once its vibrating, I'm not sure.

Yes...it will. Plus it would eliminate the EMI problem because you could have unlimited distance between the driver and the pickup...being as you suggest remote from the instrument itself.

What it won't do is stop them, nor work immediately...they will take some time to start up and will increase in volume in a swell...very cool. So, you may want a higher power amp, which is ok as you have that distance, plus you may be trying to drive more strings. Also, as these strings are not "played" you could use heavier gauges that would be easier to drive. For stopping, I'd install a sprung pedal with a felt damper that would stop the strings...just like the damper on a piano.

Of course, they will only go off if they are tuned exactly to the guitar...the A string will need to be exact between the guitar and the octave box...that's a lot of tuning...but hey, you didn't suggest it was going to be easy!!!!

Musically, it would be interesting...as I say, a bit like the damper on a piano with the pedal down...very interesting in the harmonic mode and all manner of effects could be applied to it....probably sound pretty dissonant...imagine if you got all going at once...12 semitones! Not only would the A string respond to the A of the guitar, but so to the E or any other note from the overtone series.

It would not be a "sustainer" as such but a very novel way of applying the technology. Probably something that would need music and techniques written for it.

It reminds me of this great "sitar" effect I have in my Korg AXG1. This drone is pretty realistic but you have to select the key and different notes from the scale produce wierd drone effects like a sitar with ring modulations and stuff on it. I thought it had broken, till I realized that I hadn't tuned the guitar to pitch...it has to be in tune to work! This device would be similar and you would now have 18 strings to tune together....hmmmm

Otherwise...well done...nice...so are you going to do it????

pete

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I have an electric nylon strung guitar mod about to get under way so that is my primary project at the present time. Also I'm a bit slack when it comes to putting my ideas into practice, but if I do say myself this is one of the better ones. When time permits I'll hopefully give it a go :D

Edited by Andrew_Rivett
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You break 0.2mm wire winding by hand...impossible!!! Don't ever try winding a pickup then, that stuff is hair width (0.063mm or something), now that breaks. Trying to wind it by machine is not advisable BTW, it should only take about 10 minutes or so and is much better as more care can be taken in the process.

Hmm, I mesuared the wired to be 0,2mm, but I can break it just like breaking a hair.

I now wounded 112 rounds to test the winding (112 rounds from the pickup-wiring calculator) and measured the ohms.

Here is the result:

multimeteriv5.jpg

And a picture of the wire:

kobbertrdig1.jpg

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Hmmm....is that 40 ohms! That would indicate extremely thin wire (thinner wire is more resistant). You write the thickness as 0,2mm...you do mean by this 0.2mm right? It looks about right from the picture, difficult to tell...0.2mm I think is about the size of a high e string...A pickup wire would be very difficult to see in such a pickup so it isn't that small. Perhaps your wire is particularly brittle or something.

I found the winding calculator to be misleading BTW and counting a little unreliable. Better to wind as neat as possible...a reasonably neat but not over tight coil should fit in a 3mm space with room to move and will be probably between 150-200 turns. You may need to test the meter on something known, but as the bobbin becomes fullish, scrape a bit of the wire without breaking it and test to that point. As the coil gets bigger the resistance will rise more rapidly also...so it may take a while to get to 6 ohms but the last 2 ohms may only take another 20 turns...so don't panic. Also, you can stop at 7 ohms and it will still be ok.

Keep trying...

Andrew...oh...like me...other projects.

My electronics arrived yesterday so it is time to nut out how to install it and take my guitar apart...again...grrr!

I'm going to be installing a modboard tremolo into my telecaster project...very squeezy, but will be a lot of fun and this dual pot with double decker chromed knob is very nice...oh, so much chrome on this!!!!

It is kind of neat, but you would have to be pretty dedicated to tune up all those strings. An easier way of doing it than a full on sustainer is to simply make a box with strings and attach a small speaker, or the soundboard in front of small amp and then a pickup on the strings to another amp...a little noisy acoustically, but the pickup should only sense the strings vibrations.

A correction though that has just come to me. I was wrong in that there would be an infinite distance between the driver and the pickup. Yes there would between the source pickup/s (the guitar) and the driver (on the box). While this is true, you would still need a pickup on the box springs to ensure that the sound gets to the second amp and this distance would not be "infinite" but Dependant on the length of the octave strings.

An interesting idea, but as I say, probably something that you would need to conceive music for. There are of course acoustic instruments that have sympathetic drones that are activated by the guitar top. Both John Mclauchlan and Pat Metheny if I recall use such instruments on occasion...there are quite a few ethnic instruments like the sitar also.

It is possibly an effect that could be created digitally given the realism of my korg "sitar" effect (see previous post) with better control and such. I like the pedal down piano sound and I generally always play with a very low level analogue delay on with a 300ms delay to give a halo of sound in the background. This creates a lush sound that turns into a kind of chorus effect too when vibrato is applied...but it is very low in the background with a single repeat that is fairly long and being analogue (old AD100 box) the repeat is not crisp (as with a digital delay) but a more natural distant echo like sound. When I do use a delay (which I have been lately) you get a nice halo multitap effect on every repeat. So the digital repeats are crisp but followed by their own background sound at generally a faster speed...a sound you just want to sink into...lush!

I am looking forward to adding the tremolo modboard into this guitar as along with the delay I am hoping for an even more luxurious sound without the pitchshifting out-of-tune-ness that chorus type effects give and with onboard speed and depth controls of the effect...should be interesting...

Anyway...must away... pete

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Hmmm....is that 40 ohms! That would indicate extremely thin wire (thinner wire is more resistant). You write the thickness as 0,2mm...you do mean by this 0.2mm right? It looks about right from the picture, difficult to tell...0.2mm I think is about the size of a high e string...A pickup wire would be very difficult to see in such a pickup so it isn't that small. Perhaps your wire is particularly brittle or something.

I found the winding calculator to be misleading BTW and counting a little unreliable. Better to wind as neat as possible...a reasonably neat but not over tight coil should fit in a 3mm space with room to move and will be probably between 150-200 turns. You may need to test the meter on something known, but as the bobbin becomes fullish, scrape a bit of the wire without breaking it and test to that point. As the coil gets bigger the resistance will rise more rapidly also...so it may take a while to get to 6 ohms but the last 2 ohms may only take another 20 turns...so don't panic. Also, you can stop at 7 ohms and it will still be ok.

Keep trying...

Yeah - I also see it as 40 ohm .. The bobbin is also not near full.

Think I will buy some VERIFIED wire tomorrow (on a role, saying 0,2mm)

I tryed with another vernier caliper (bether quality) and it showed more 0,1mm then 0,2mm

The shop where I usaly buy my stuff, has a older owner, who can be pretty special.. He dosen't care if the parts he sells is right. So I think this wire is 0,1mm..

The other place - they don't know a **** - Im a electronic noob, but seems to know more about it than they does (They always ask me to search on theire computer to find the right part etc.)

Just took a 1.5K ohm resistor (5% tolerance) and measured - it said 1.48K. That should be more than fine.

Another thing - A friend of mine is a bassplayer. Anyone tried to make this sustainer for bass? Should there be any differens other than a little in the "pickup" ? When I get my own working, I think I will build one to him as a present! Sweet me (blarh)

Now I will try to find some of my components around the house - had a little rush this morning, so coulden't clean up before leaving for work. When I got home that cats has been playing with my stash! :D

Why diden't I leave the power on even though 12V isen't very much.

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