psw Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Thanks Ansil...really appreciate the encouragement...it's hard to keep up the enthusiasm after so long sometimes.... Your computer sounds amazing...I'm running a P1 reject from my daughters school with Win'98...I used Audacity to record with...neat and free...but I just don't have the memory for anything much... Even my dial-up hates me... Will be great to hear some stuff...it really made a difference to the way people see this project I think.... pete Oh...got any thoughts on the "pop" or LM386 replacements...? Bit of a discussion going at DIYStomp Thread about it... psw's DIY stompbox DIY sustainer thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Excited...You Bet.... Ok...it's only 10 mins old but I couldn't wait to show it to you all... Here it is...the new...portable, psw guitar sustainer test kit.... Modeled here on my black beauty, lounging on the couch...there's a black box plugged into the guitar (with a battery clipped to it's side, and red LED)...an amp lead so you can hear the thing, from the box...a driver attached to the neck pickup of the guitar (blade pole), lowered to accomodate it, and simply by the power of the pickup's magnet... So, already it's shown that with a guitar like this (PAF style humbuckers) the sustain is insane.... This setup duplicates what's in the low powered strat, same driver (sans pickup) same circuit but on this guitar...only the tiniest amount of power is required...on a control from 1-10...about 0.5...!!!! Lp=big fat sustain...LP with sustainer=big fat sustain, forever...!!! Who knows how long a battery'd last with this amount of power going to it.... Anyway...couldn't wait to let it be known...even the "pop" is less, and only on turn on!!! I didn't even need to disconnect the neck pickup, just used the selector to turn it off...go figure...!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultura999 Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Very nice. "The sustain on this is amazing. WAHHH, i mean you could go and get a bite to eat and WAHHH you'd still be hearing that one" - Nigel -Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 what exactly is it? you made a driver without magnet? and put all the electronics in a lil box??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 "The sustain on this is amazing. WAHHH, i mean you could go and get a bite to eat and WAHHH you'd still be hearing that one" - Nigel ← that is sooo apt.... what exactly is it? you made a driver without magnet? and put all the electronics in a lil box??? ← That's right...he said, in an uncharateristic short post! ..pretty much!!! But...already it's proven the Humbucking theory, the separate driver (just add magnet...and I've just tried it on a bass... I've just modified the L'il black box so it now has gain trimmers for both the preamp and the poweramp...now the thing can be adjusted to the guitar being tested with the turn of a screwdriver... I know it's simple but already it's proved it's worth and shed some valuable light on the problems with the strat and gives me a better test bed to look into issues such as the "pop" question and the complicated switching... From the very short time I've had to play with it I can see it's likely that with good HB pickup guitar (at least) like this LP the switching would be much simpler...two DPDT's...that means push/pull knobs folks, if you so desire... pete PS...I just measured the driver...exactly 3.5mm thick, total...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksolid Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Very nice. "The sustain on this is amazing. WAHHH, i mean you could go and get a bite to eat and WAHHH you'd still be hearing that one" - Nigel -Jamie ← ahaha, that brings back memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelastgoodbye Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 ooo nice I feel the box is gonna come back just shows that simple is almost always better well, with a NCP2820 you could put all the electronics inside the driver (it's only 1 x 1mm) but then you'd better sharpen your solder iron! me, I'd keep it in a box Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 I've calmed down now, a bit...it's getting late...good to hear from you Tim...Ive got a question for you...! But first..."you know I could always sell shoes...do you wear black?" ~Nigel No first...Here's another pic of...err...The Sustain Box...It's black, so black.... What this shows is it's new improved features... The two blue/white things are the Preamp Gain (P) and the other the Poweramp Gain (A)...this will allow it to be tailored to any guitar setup... The important thing is the scale of the driver...it's 3.5mm thick, 12mm wide and has a 3mm wide steel core...You can see how thin and small it is in comparison to the 1/4' (err...1/4" err 4.63m err mm) plug and the pick...There's a jack socket on the other end of the box to connect it to an amp... The driver design is the key to it's success...there really isn't any circuit trickery, and I'd predict the Fetzer/Ruby circuit to be fine with HB styled guitars...I really should give it a go sometime...That's the reason I've not been pushing schematics and such, most of the PM's I get are about the circuitry...that's not where it's at... Well what goes around...the box does seem to be making a bit of a comeback...just when I'd been converted to the inbuilt version... You know I got a bit of err "criticism" (I thought your box design was particularly sexist, what's wrong with that, sexist is good, right Nigel) for encouraging that phase...well have people running back to page 38, and requoting all those pics... Maybe you're just hankering something to put your designer flair on, Tim!!! This "thing" isn't really a performance tool though...it's more of an evaluation device. It was really constructed for a secret mission the sustainer has, but before I let it out of my hands, I'll be having some fun... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few people wondered whether this type of device could be used on a bass. Well I tried it on mine and it does work, but with mixed results. The main problem is my bass has a presision styled split pickup. As two strings are wired out of phase with the other, the signal is mixed...it trys to play harmonics on some strings and not on the other pair. Also the amp isn't optimised for the bass frequencies, not difficult to do though. But, for this type of pickup I'm thinking a similar type of driver and, definitely a wider "blade" although on a bass individual poles would be fine (unless you're into bending strings...). The good news is, at least on mine, there's plenty of room for the driver and the magnet without digging into the bass and, the pickup is naturally far enough away from the driver to avoid having to worry about any fancy switching or rewires...cool...it would make an ideal candidate for the box idea... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK...Tim, someone on the other forum has an EMG guitar, and I was thinking...When I asked a while back if anyone knew exactly what was inside an EMG it was kind of sugested that it was pretty much a conventional Humbucker with a preamp... So...how much magnetism is coming out of those things...it's entirely possible that this kind of Pickup/Driver idea would work just as well on there... Anyway, the question is...could you test out how much pull there is on an EMG...roughly, say compared to a normal pickup...does a screw or nail stick to it for instance...? Also...how close do you set EMG's to the strings...closer than a conventional pickup? How do they sound if you dropped the neck pickup 4mm from it's normal position? I've got some really cool ideas for this pickup add-on driver to make it look the part...of course EMG's flat and black look would be no problem at all to replicate...you wouldnt know the driver was there... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So what else can this "Sustain Box" do...well you could use it as a recording tool I suppose...but once you've got it on there, you won't want to take it off... What it will allow me to do is to experiment a little with something else from even longer ago than the box ideas...even before your time Tim...this is one long thread..the idea of "natural synthesis".... This was one of my more wacky ideas that I quickly stopped going on about...but now I've got this...and a medium to demonstrate it in sound...this too might have found it's time... If you heard the clip "Who Trembles", I got a simple synth like sound with the aid of a tremolo pedal and the harmonic switch. The idea of "natural synthesis" was to create synth like sounds by putting such effects into the drive signal...It's natural, cause it's actually working on the strings vibrations and physical harmonics rather than being artificially generated...(BTW the term "natural synthesis" was lifted from the Ebow guys but this is a little different approach.) I've done a little experimenting with this years ago...and you can guess at what some things are going to sound like...but everything else is uncharted, and I'm sure they'll be lot's of surprises... So what would a tremolo do in the drive chain...it would gently modulate the sustain, but in harmonic mode it would grab and release the harmonic to create a really interesting effect. One thing I did try (a long time ago...like 10 years...) was a flanger, and the effect was like birds...the harmonics would sweep up and down in a kind of weird high pitched arpeggios...very strange...but a whole new area to explore. This box needs a little modification to provide a direct out so that the only the drive chain is "effected" to fully utilize this potential...but it's out there...I'll say no more till I can demonstrate the idea...it's probably something that needs to be heard.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So...this all brings me back to the word "Sustainer"...I use it cause everyone knows what you mean, but I really don't like it. This thing is about so much more than "sustain"...it's about new playing techniques (that don't necessarily involve sustained notes), it's about harmonics generation, it's about control over the decay of notes, the middle dynamics of notes (their swell), it's about new ways of using effects..."sustain" is only a fraction of what this thing can do... I know I've said this kind of thing before, but with all this renewed interest of late, I thought I'd wheel it out again...it's what keeps me going on this...it's a fantasticly expressive musical tool...and a lot of fun... feedback is forever...errr...I go to sleep now... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelastgoodbye Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Hi String pull on emg's is pretty weak. It holds a screw, 'just', I'd say it's about 50 % of a passive humbucker. Because of their lower magnetism, EMG suggests you put the pickups as close to the pickups as possible (as it doesn't hinder sustain or string movement too much anyway). Mine is pretty close, about 2mm from the low E. moving it further gives you more of a mellow sound, less attack, less output. Not a bad sound for the neck position probably. I've read about your natural synthesis stuff actually, and experimented a bit with it too. While it's a cool idea, the effects of err.. the effects on the strings is pretty unpredictable...those bird chirps and such. I think I've gotten something similar once by running a really hot distorted signal into a flanger into the fx loop or something...then there was the german radio stations as well... pretty crazy Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 I've read about your natural synthesis stuff actually, and experimented a bit with it too. While it's a cool idea, the effects of err.. the effects on the strings is pretty unpredictable...those bird chirps and such. ← Hmmmm...I guess you're right...it certainly is just a novelty side to the thing... Meanwhile...EMG's...that's a shame....however, the only reason I haven't proposed putting a magnet inside the core (as you've done with one of your drivers) is that it would change the tone of the pickup, increase it's output, and (with Neodyminium) possibly demagnetise it...That would be an option. That's not to say that it wouldn't work as is though...as long as the driver was thin like mine. My humbuckers really don't put out that much from any one coil. The magnetism is really there to provide some initial "grab" for the device to do it's thing... Looks like something EMG owners will have to explore...unless I can find a store or something with an EMG guitar willing to let me lower the Pup and apply my new toy for 5 minutes that is.... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Me again...I get a lot of emails like this one form nero1985 at DIYstomboxes... hey! that sustainer sounds great! where can i find the schematics? thanks! First off...I'd encourage anyone interested in this project to join up here and tag along...I suspect you'll need the support...it may be a long thread, but it's not that intimidating is it...? Perhaps I should shorten my posts.... Anyway...there is no "schematic" as such...the closest thing really is in Galaga Mike's Tutorial with ROG's Fetzer/Ruby circuit which should work fine and be more compact than mine...details of mine is here but you have to go back a couple of pages...but the secret is not in the circuitry... The "Magic" is in the Driver... Now...on the circuit...I've been looking further into it and have a few ideas with help from DIYstomp guys...so perhaps a standard circuit will come along eventually...it's still a work in progress...though progressing fast... psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 (edited) ehm... ok so what if I built a "sustain box" and plug it directly with the guitar's output?? Nothing real fancy... I'd have to change to bridge pickup by hand, but I don't really care... THAT could REALLY become something that could be sold and make money with!!! Think about it... A sustainer requiring no wireing or mods to any guitar and that could be changed guitars anytime you want... EDIT: ok i just looked at the image and that's what you've done... alright then, i'll STFU. EDIT#2: Alright, here's my plan. Ima buy(if i had to...) my friends old (VERY) crappy pickup and take the magnet from it and make a driver out of it. Then i'll make a "sustain box" now for the questions... #1: With all those advancements in preamps, should i still make it with the ruby/fetzer? What else should i do? #2: would sticking a magnet over my pickup scrap it's sound? should i use a steel core instead?? Thanks PSW (and thanks for proving me that it can be done that way ) Edited July 18, 2005 by Pr3Va1L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headupinclouds Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 (edited) Thanks for all the work on this everyone. I plan to build a hexaphonic sustainer unit, but would like to solicit any comments from the group on problems I may run into. I plan to run an LR Baggs T-bridge (tune-o-matic hexaphonic bridge transducer) http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/pickups_tbridge.shtml into six small preamp+amps (preferably something cheap and commercially available, since I need to buy six of them) which would drive the poles of a rewound (w/ thicker wire a la PSW) hexaphonic electromagnetic bridge pickup. I'm hoping simple preamp+amp units will suffice, since I'm only initially concerned with sustaining the fundamentals. Any suggestions on as close to out-of-the-box amp units as possible would be much appreciated (hopefully < $10 each). Any pointers on relevant specs (watts, ohms) I should be looking for to power these 6 drivers? I could probably find 6 used Smokey cigarette lighter amps for that price, but they're probably overkill for this application. Perhaps in a 2nd generation I could build 6 of PSW's circuits to give me more flexibility w.r.t. harmonics, etc. I suspect the biggest pitfall may be shielding/separation in the driver, given the proximity of the poles. This may be naively optimistic, but it seems to be on the right track. UPDATE: I've come across references to PSW's abandoned hex drivers, but I think the the T-bridge might make this more feasible, since it offers better separation than conventional hex electro-magnetic pickups. I'm hoping using Bartolini's hex pickup as a starting point for a driver would also give a boost. Perhaps some new light can be shed on this? Edited July 18, 2005 by headupinclouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Oh No...headupinclouds... Welcome to PG by the way and the Sustainer Thread... Big subjects there that call for a longer post than I can do now, but it's opening up a whole can of worms... I've got lots to say about hex drivers...oh I already have spent, like 40 pages and a year pursuing it... It's a very complex area and you'd better have a good reason to do it...(I know why I was doing it, I wonder if you've got a clear idea of what you're trying to achieve thogh)...it's insanely complicated...as I say no time just now, but I'll address it, probably tomorrow my time (I'm 10 into the future re: USA!!!!) Similar thing Pr3Va1L I'm afraid... Most people do test the drivers by taking a line directly out of the guitar...but it does limit the device and it's certainly not a performance tool...maybe a studio effect...I'll have to explain it more later... Also...I was able to put the "Sustain Box" together real quick 'cause I just gutted the original control box and repaired an old circuit to pretty much match the strat's...I'm sure there is some early photo's somewhere, where it appears from time to time... I have a secret adgenda with the "Sustain Box" evaluating device...I'd tell you, but it's a secret isn't it....but it is proving useful and might interest some...I'd predict you'd be installing it anyway eventually once you've got a taste for it... I am using it though to record some new sounds with the LP though...I'll explain what it can do...and what it can't tomorrow... psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headupinclouds Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 (edited) Welcome to PG by the way and the Sustainer Thread... Big subjects there that call for a longer post than I can do now, but it's opening up a whole can of worms... I've got lots to say about hex drivers...oh I already have spent, like 40 pages and a year pursuing it... It's a very complex area and you'd better have a good reason to do it...(I know why I was doing it, I wonder if you've got a clear idea of what you're trying to achieve thogh)...it's insanely complicated...as I say no time just now, but I'll address it, probably tomorrow my time (I'm 10 into the future re: USA!!!!) ← Thanks for the response. I've spot read most of the thread, but will see what else I can glean from it all. I'm interested in a # of things with a hexaphonic sustainer. (Actually I don't truly need a hexaphonic sustainer, as I typically would only be playing triads or tetrads, which could make things easier w.r.t. the driver if I could arrange things for every other string.) My most immediate desire is to play sustained intervals/chords. Some of the impetus came from listening to Toshio Hosokawa's compositions on the album "Deep Silence" (for Sho and Accordion), an admittedly cringe worthy title, but beautiful music nonetheless. Also Ellen Fullman's long string pieces and much of Phil Niblock's work come to mind. The guitar does seem potentially well suited for much of this. It has been something I've wanted to do for a while, and have achieved with limited success via a high gain setup at as low volume as possible. My best configuration has been w/ a cranked low watt tube amp (tube gain and compression) through an attenuator (low volume) with a cranked gain pedal. It works reasonably well w/ interval/triad playing on my humbucker (ES-335) guitar, but the constant noise/hum is a problem since I generally tend to play very quiet music w/ woodwinds, etc. I've also been using the Sustainiac Model-C in small group contexts, but the limitations are too great for what I want. It only works on a subset of the notes/frets, and electromagnet sustainers seem to be much more consistent/reliable. Also Nic Collins, who is head of the Sound department at the Art Institute of Chicago, has apparently built a hexaphonic sustainer. He says he uses his more as a filter for external sounds, by which I presume he means something similar to David Tudor's Rainforest pieces (w/ Cage et al). In this context, the guitar is effectively a resonating lap steel. He probably isn't concerned with true hexaphonic capabilities, note isolation, etc. From what I've heard, he is doing awesome work with it. I'll see what more I can glean from him. This is a great resource. I have a limited knowledge of electronics, but will contribute what I can. BTW, Graphtec also has a drop in hexaphonic bridge transducer (strat or tune-o-matic) with preamps for mono or hex/midi output via the roland 13 pin connector. This seems a bit more flexible than the LR Baggs T-Bridge -- I learned about this after purchasing the LR Baggs T-Bridge on ebay. The T-Bridge should be fine for my interests anyway, and the acoustic blending it offers will be useful even if the hex sustainer doesn't pan out. Here's a link to the Graphtec Ghost products: http://www.graphtech.com/prodghost.htm That could build a very versatile guitar. Oh, another spin would be to use the bridge transducers in reverse to drive the strings. After thinking about the Rainforest pieces, in which Tudor uses transducers on hanging metal sculptures, milk jugs, etc., to build compositions, it occured to me that this could potentially work for guitar strings as well, which is actually what I think Nic Collins does. I wonder if they would have enough power for this, especially given that they are at the end of the string. If it did work for a driver, the problem would be how to sense the signal, in which case a magnetic hex pickup would probably be required. Hmm.... Edited July 18, 2005 by headupinclouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 errrr,,aghhh...it's 4am...too much sustain...errrr... Hi headintheclouds...OK...you do have a use for them...that is the correct answer...playing chords...hmmm...now I'm obliged to answer the question a little more I guess.... There are a whole heap of problems with hex drivers, especially when running them from a hexophonic source.... Effectively you're looking at six ebows...you might want to check Heet's Ebow Patent (link on page7) as this was put forward as a possibility..interesting trigger idea with a set of fake wire strings behind the bridge...worth a look for you I'd say... There are a whole heap of questions to be answered about it and a lot of experimenting...I'd suggest building a conventional sustainer like this one that works...testing it on piezo outputs (we don't know if it will work yet)...and try and work out how you're going to make six drivers less than 1cm wide....!!!! Then you've got a lot of circuits + batteries...and then there's the whole issue of cross talk between drivers.. Oh...and bending strings is going to be out most likely as you'll be pushing the string off one driver, on to the next which is carrying a different drive signal... Anyway...back to bed...have a real good think about it though, it could be insurmountable... Oh and piezo's don't have the strength to drive the bridge to sustain the string...we'll not for me...but that's another story...I did do a lot of stuff that's not on here "cause it did'nt work.... Anyway...back to bed... psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 So ehm... What's wrong with feeding the sustainer from the output?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Sorry Pr3Va1L...never got round to answering your question did I.... OK...first, you're taking the signal after the guitar's control pots...in an installation you'd be taking the signal to the circuitry direct from the bridge pickup. The result is that the volume and tone controls will adversely effect the circuit's performance, and even flat out, will still have some (if only a little, depending on the guitar) effect. The volume controls wont work as per usual in that, although they turn down the volume, they also turn down the sustainer... Second...you dont have any automatic switching of the guitar's internal pickup circuitry. Of course to use the "sustain box" you use the selector switch to select only the bridge pickup. Now this will work on a lot of guitar's but as I found out, to get it to work really well you have to completely disconnect the neck (and mid) pickup/s for it to work properly. On my, fairly microphonic sensitive(I suspect), cheap "test strat" this was crucial and involved the implimentation of a exotic 4PDT switch to achieve this. Now, although the LP pickups are considerably better, and their Humbucking nature does help I suspect, it still displays some of these problems. By completely disconnecting the neck and other pickups, I mean that both the hot and the ground need to be lifted so as in effect the guitaronly has the bridge pickup... That is not to say that it wont work at all, as my next post will show, but it is far less than an actually installed system... So... that's why I've described the "sustain box" as a testing and evaluation device...it's not really a performace tool. It is an important tool though... Basically it's a formal way of doing what everyone's been doing anyway to test their devices...I just put it in a box...check out G Mike's version on the tutorial. And...if making this to get a taste for it seems worthy, then do it...there's no harm in it...you could even simulate an installation by cutting the neck pickups wires so it's disconnected to see the resulting difference. The "sustain box" is the half way point, if you like, between making one and testing that it works, and actually installing it...it will work and you've lost nothing (cost of a box maybe) if you were to gut the box eventually and install it. The importance of the thing is that I now have a test bed to look at some of these effects and work on solutions and, to test the thing on different guitars to see such things as whether an effect is unique to the "test strat" and what's universal; whether the thing will work on a HB pickup; or what if I were to try a different driver design...that sort of thing.... Tim/onelastgoodbye has said that he's still very keen on the external box idea...and I've alway's been in the past. I do think though that the device should really be seen as an addition to the instrument itself, intrically linked to the guitar's own circuitry. The external box idea is still very valid, it solves a lot of problems finding space for circuitry and batteries, avoids having to drill holes for switches, etc. All very good reasons for it, but it was always put forward that the thing wouldn't be a plug'n'play device when we were discussing the idea and that some wiring mods would be required... I'd be happy to be proved wrong...all I can report for sure is what I've so far observed...that's the reason I'm making all this effort to encourage others to try it and feedback their experiences and strategies, that's where we'll see some really definitive stuff come up so we can all draw some conclusions.... Anyway...hope that helps a little...now coming up...some more Sustainer Sounds...oh and we seem to have passed the 20,000 visit mark...almost 2,000 since the last sounds went up...astonishing. I've heard from numerous people experimenting with this, some of them coming along pretty well. I've also laid down a little challenge over at DIYstompbox...will a DIYstomper or a PGer be the next to have a fully installed working sustainer....??? pete / psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) OK Sustainerettes…a couple more sustainer sounds… I'm having a little trouble recording on computer so there's still no multi-tracking, editing, etc. These sounds are being hosted by Jim Rayden and the guy's at Taavi Audio...a big thanks for helping me get this stuff on the 'net so you can hear them… These sounds are of the "sustain box" device that I created to test the thing on different guitars. It is very much a test device and doesn't work as well as a fully installed sustainer…but it is a valuable development tool and worthwhile DIY if you want to experiment before making some kind of commitment to a particular guitar. So here's the sounds…for a direct link go here… All Tracks --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bit Riffy Les Paul guitar with "sustain box". Driver is placed (and taped) over the neck side pole of the guitar and the signal comes direct from the output jack… First sound is a held fundumental note (a, bstring, 22nd fret) showing that, even this close to the driver a note will sustain… The riff is a bit classic rock with a twist…the sustainer allows me to slide the single note answering phrase about… The final chord is an open A and on the LP the middle strings tend to predominate…by dampening the open A string (which is "feeding back" into a harmonic) the a note (g string, 2nd fret) is drawn out…while allowing the bass note to re-establish I move up to the 22nd fret again to bring back the opening note…switching to harmonic mode at the end it sounds out an octave above (the imaginary 44th fret)… --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LP riff A santana-ish riff I made up…here you can here how a little spice can be added to the riff with the addition of harmonics to the longer held notes…. Like the above clip…The LP is naturally sustain-y and a guitar like an LP will naturally sustain like this…really it adds the harmonic sound to spice things up, until you go for really, really long "infinite" sounds and some of those "no pick" like effects that the device makes possible. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shanka Noodles Indian anyone…Here is the LP in dropped d to create a background drone for a little introspective noodling… The effect is the Sitar setting on the AX1G. This effect is tuned to the key (in this case D) and the effect responds to the note D and others (A and F's) to a lesser degree relating to the key. It's quite effective, so those sitar-y sympathetic effects appear when key notes are played… Starting in Harmonic Mode you can clearly hear the notes are very high…that's the sustainer, not the "effect". Throughout you can hear notes that are artificially long and many have no attack but are brought out by sliding and fretting the notes. The harmonic mode switch is used a few times and it's effect and when it's switched can be heard if you listen carefully…. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, there's a little taster of what I've been up to in testing the "sustain box" out on the LP. As to its performance…I'm in too minds…there's still some stuff to do on it. While I have been able to show that the device will work on a HB…the effect on the Humbucker's tone is unknown. This would require a specially made driver that spanned both coils…one side being a dummy to raise the other coils to the same level. I also feel that a naturally sustain-y guitar reaps less rewards than with a more twangy, sharp attack Fender-y type of instrument where the implementation of the sustainer provides more range from short to infinite sustain… Anyway…more developments are happening my end, but until more people get the thing up and running such applications will be up in the air…there is only so much I'm inclined to do…personally, while interested and will try to help, I'm not really inclined to do experimental work on EMG's for which I don't have any personal use for, for instance. What I am interested in is improving and simplifying the circuitry and that's a bit of my focus at the moment… So…if I sort out my computer woes…I'll post sounds as they can be made… BTW…the sustainer project now spans a few forums so comments can also be found at The unfretted forum (where I recently reported on the use of the device on bass) unfretted forum - DIY Sustainer thread DIY stompbox forum (where I'm looking at circuitry and other questions) DIY stompboxes DIY Sustainer Thread Thanks again to Jim Rayden and the site traaviaudio.com for helping with the hosting of these sound clips Taavi Audio Cheers psw Edited July 20, 2005 by psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassies Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Good Morning everyone (Well anyway, it is a bright and sunny day here in SA) For a about 2 days or so I have been following this thread and finished building the 386 Amp in the early hours this morning. Just a few questions, If I understand the posts so far, I need to actually feed the 386 amp directly from the bridge PU not from the output cable for best performance. Is there any risk involving hooking this little amp up to my quitar and using a set of headphones to just test if the amp is working ? My skills and knowledge when constructing a cricuit is less zero, so I hope I wired this thing up correctly. Last question, on the Fetzer / Ruby Diagram posted, There is a 100k trim. Is it a pot, because looking at the pictures posted, I only see what I can guess is the volume and gains pot, but no trim. or am I in the wrong here ? Just some guidelines to clear that out will be greatly appreciated. Have Fun. Tas. Edited July 20, 2005 by Tassies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelastgoodbye Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think I can answer this for you.. 1) It's better to feed the amp directly from the bridge PU yes. Taking the signal from the output cable might be easier for some initial testing though, as you don't have to fiddle with the guitar's wiring. 2) Just be careful when using headphones to not turn the amp up too much, it puts out a lot of power (you can easily drive a 2 x 12 with this) and you might blow them out (or your ears );I hooked it up to a guitar speaker but headphones should work if you keep the volume down. You won't hurt your guitar. 3) a trim is just an abbreviation of trim-pot, so yeah it's a pot. These are often mini trimpots though, something like 5 by 5 mm so that's why you sometimes can't see 'em. basically the same thing as a big pot, just smaller. Actually the idea behind a trimpot is that it's set and forget, while the full blown pots are more geared towards continuous use, so they're a bit sturdier. Welcome to the forum, tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 That trimmer is used to set the operating voltage of the FET. Just power it up, short the input to ground, and adjust the trimmer until you read half the supply voltage at the FET's drain lead (ie, 4.5 volts for a 9 volt battery). That'll give you maximum headroom for the JFET you are using. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassies Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Cool, thanks for the reply(s). Like I said, I have a bit of knowledge on the subject but that is about it. I think if I hook a battery up to this thing smoke will come out of it but that is about it. So lets see. Thanks for the help. Tas Edited July 20, 2005 by Tassies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimRayden Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I just completed my first sustainer. Well, it kinda works. Help me debug it, here's the data. The guitar is(was) a dual humbucker ESP. I removed the neck humbucker and replaced it with a single coil, wich I rewound to a driver, using the pickup's coil and magnets and killed a 9V power trannie to get the wire for it. The bridge pickup was turned into two single coils, one into the sustainer and the other into the output. Seemed like the most reasonable solution to me, as I dislike humbuckers anyway . The driver amplifier was taken out of a pair of active computer speakers. With 9 volts of supply, it gives about 1,5w per channel. So I wired the channels in series, one overdriving the other. The problem is, the sustainer has a good effect on only the lowest notes. I think i read about that problem somewhere in this thread but I don't think I can find it anymore. Could it be because the computer speakers have more bass response? Would I need some eq-ing in there? Also, considering that the amplifier has a pretty big output compared to Ruby, there is not too much sustain. Because of the ugly overdrive of the second stage, the output has a real cool-nasty buzz on it though. So I need a more powerful amp with that driver for more clean headroom and some more sustain? Besides these problems, I'm loving the thing! All hail artificial sustain! ----------- Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimRayden Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Hmm, I just attached the Ruby in there and it doesn't pass the infinite sustain limit. I'm starting to think my driver isn't efficient enough... ------------- Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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