guitartreck Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 nice work guys well i read somewere in this forum something about "square waves" what effect cause these square waves in the sustainer? thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Square waves..? Could you perhaps be talking about clipping, i.e. distortion? Clipping is where the amplitude of the signal gets too large and the top of the wave gets "clipped" off, thus producing a wave the looks like the top has just been leveled off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitartreck Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Square waves..? Could you perhaps be talking about clipping, i.e. distortion? Clipping is where the amplitude of the signal gets too large and the top of the wave gets "clipped" off, thus producing a wave the looks like the top has just been leveled off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 You would have to build some sort of converter to convert the input signal to squar waves. Not very practical, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 twang-o-matic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1. OK. I built my amp circuit on the breadboard last night, wired it into my guitar and driver and what I got was a loud hum that changed pitch as I adjusted the gain and volume pots. Does this sound like a poorly potted coil? (BTW, this is just a test coil that I wound with 30 guage (.275mm) wire to 8ohms). It hums as soon as the guitar enters the circuit regardless of where the driver is sitting (near the strings or far from the guitar). Perhaps I have it wired wrong. I disconected my neck pickup all together and wired the amp input to the 3way switch at the bridge pickup pole. I wired the common ground rail of the ruby to the back of my volume pot. The driver was wired to the output and ground of the ruby. I can feel quite a buzz on the coil especially when I pull the magnet away from the coil. almost an electric shock! 2. On the Fetzer-Ruby circuit, I need to bias the drain of the MPF102 to 4.5V. I connected my multimeter (V setting) to 9v+ before the trim pot and the other lead after the trim pot but I got no reading no matter what I did to the trim pot. Am I doing this wrong?(obviously!) Thanks, Dezz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitartreck Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 i undersdtand now! thanks psw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Dezz, make sure that you have the multimeter set to the right voltage setting. Mine has a setting for various voltages. If it's set too high, it won't register anything. Also, if you have the ground messed up on the other side of the transistor, there will be nowhere for the electrons to flow to and thus no voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Dezz...you could try putting a speaker on there instead of the driver to hear what it sounds like (a little computer speaker will do...anything really). It sounds like you have some kind of internal oscillation (feedback) in the circuit. It could be that it is putting out a high pitched whine and that the driver is poorly potted and so is vibrating at a very high frequency...if it makes a noise it must be moving somehow! The wire within the coil becomes magnetised with current and will try and repell from one another...hence the need to ensure that there can be no movement... keep trying... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 2. On the Fetzer-Ruby circuit, I need to bias the drain of the MPF102 to 4.5V. I connected my multimeter (V setting) to 9v+ before the trim pot and the other lead after the trim pot but I got no reading no matter what I did to the trim pot. Am I doing this wrong?(obviously!) I discovered I had my MPF102 poles mixed up! I still have no sustain, however. I'll keep trying. I've ordered some 32gauge wire so I'll be building a (few) new coil(s) soon. Then I'll assult you all with a barrage of silly questions! Here's the first one: Resistors are not polarized, right? It shouldn't matter which end is which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 If you got your transistor reversed, you may have fried it. You did buy multiple components, right? You should definately try a new one. As for biasing, you did have the + and - power hooked up to the circuit, right? No, resistors are not polarized. Their directions makes no difference. Update on my sustainer project: Got it finished today! And man its smokin' (in a good way)! I got my distortion problem sorted out, which also sorted out the sqealing. I ended up putting a 1K trim pot between pins 1 and 8 on the opamp and adjusted it to the point just below where it starts squealing and distorting. Now the sustainer works perfectly in both fundamental and harmonic mode. Swing on over to the tutorials section. I just posted my sustainer project pics there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 That's just great I am really pleased for you, I like the way you were able to squeeze the circuit into the LP's switch cavity, brilliant! So, with the humbucker you may not need as much output so that trim pot does have a use. On my guitar the single coils are very low output. Perhaps eventually we can make a better HB mod so you can keep the neck pickup, but I think you will find that the sustainer is so good that you will play it all the time. I am so glad that it worked for you and that you have proved a number of different ideas...the use of a conventional boobin as I described to make the driver, individual poles versus the blade driver and the use of the fetzer/ruby circuit in making a sucessfull device...three cheers primal, you and your step dad should be proud!!! pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitartreck Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Primal, congrats on the success! Hopefully I'm not too far behind you. It's encouraging to hear a success story using the fetzer-ruby and modded pickup bobbin coil as this is exactly what I'm attempting to do. Let's hear some sound clips of this bad boy. Question: How do I wire in an LED to indicate sustainer on/off? Where does it fit into the circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobin Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Update on my sustainer project: Got it finished today! And man its smokin' (in a good way)! I got my distortion problem sorted out, which also sorted out the sqealing. I ended up putting a 1K trim pot between pins 1 and 8 on the opamp and adjusted it to the point just below where it starts squealing and distorting. Now the sustainer works perfectly in both fundamental and harmonic mode. Swing on over to the tutorials section. I just posted my sustainer project pics there. Hey, well done! When you say 'perfectly' do you mean as in all strings sustain the same, and that the problems on page 1 of the tut are non-existant. If they are, then let me at 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 There are still some issues on certain notes on the E and B string, but the majority of the notes work. Almost all of them below the 12th fret work, which is all I'm really interested in since I'm not a soloer. So, correct: It works perfectly for me. Dezz, the LED should go anywhere on 9v+ to ground. That way, when you cut the power, the LED will go off. You will need to figure out what value resistor you will need in order to prevent the LED from burning up. I'd tell you mine, but I'm running at 12v rather than 9v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 I'd tell you mine, but I'm running at 12v rather than 9v. Why 12v? Is this something I should do? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Dezz, the LED should go anywhere on 9v+ to ground. 1k is generally fine for 12V or 9V. If you want to get specific, the current across the diode is I = (Vcc - Vdiode)/R. You can look up the recomended current and voltage drop across the diode, plug it in, and solve for R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hey there guys...lots of excitement over another successful sustainer and proof of some of those ideas like winding onto a blocked up bobbin, humbucking pickups, the ruby amp, etc. The 12 volt setup will put out more current/power and may last a little longer if you can fit all those batteries in...hence, primal had to back off the power by adding resistance in the poweramp trim between pins 1 and 8. I'm not sure what the ruby specified but I noticed that my output capacitor (going to the driver) is 100uF which gives the circuit a high frequency bias and makes those high strings sing a little more perhaps. This is probably more true for a humbucking guitar which is a little darker anyway. Also, with the harmonic mode, the amp needs to be able to handle such high frequencies...if I turn down the tone on my guitar for instance, I don't hear some of those realy, really high notes as they get filtered out. A wha all the way forward brings them out loud and clear (the other extreme) so you need to choose tones that wont filter out the sounds that you are going to use it for. The higher strings will always be a little tricky. Two reasons...1, the strings are thinner so harder to move electromagnetically, and...2, they vibrate very fast so the driver needs to respond fast too. That is the idea behind the thin driver design, the other guys have much more sophisticated circuits to try and correct for this. There will be sweet spots on all guitars and the response is predictable once you play it a bit. This is a result of the placement of the driver to the varous modes of vibration and the position of the pickup. The lower frets are a little easier because the nodes are further apart. That said I do get the high strings going in normal mode and no problem on the b string up to the highest frets in harmonic mode. Given that these notes sustain higher than any note on a 24 fret guitar, really the loss isn't that great in terms of range...unless you are playing tunes for dogs, I guess! I wonder...primal...do you get the pop that I get when you switch off??? Oh...and for the LED, just connect the LED with a suitable resistor to the circuit at the battery input and the switch where the power is turned on and off...that way, when you switch the power to the circuit on the light lights up! I understand the problems putting clips up. I used a cheapo digital effects unit into the sound card mic input and recorded with headphones on Audacity (free program)...tricky enough, then you have to get it hosted on the Web...took me forever...so for now, I think we ought to believe and hope you enjoy it so much that you lay something down eventually. In the meantime, just let us know what kind of stuff you are doing with it, and how it changes your playing (damping, etc). I found that it slowed me down and played more melodically up and down strings rather than in boxes. I also found that I would use a lot of the left (playing) hand to dampen as well as muting with the heal of my right hand on the lower strings. Sometimes it's good to let an open string sustain while you play stuff on top of it, and for the advanced, you can tap bass notes of chords (they will sound themselves with a kind of cello bowing sound) and play the notes above...or even separate melodies. All cool new stuff and more that can only be done with this type of device...neato, check it out... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hey pete, to answer your question about the pop, yes there is one, but its NOWHERE nearly as loud as the pops in your clips. The pops I get would hardly be noticed if you weren't specifically listening for them. As for the batteries, a RadioShack 12v AA battery clip fits nicely inside my LP control cavity (with some cloth to insulate from the pots and sides of the cavity). I can't say its really changed my playing much yet. Where I also play bass guitar, I'm used to dampening all the other strings because I do the same when I slap. I have a feeling that I will mostly use it for a droning type of effect. I will get to writing some stuff using my sustainer soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobin Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hey guys, for the pooping, just remembered this: AMZ- LED popping It seems pretty simple. Excuse me if this has been posted before, but its such a loooong thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hmmm, welcome Roobin...maybe that is the problem with my pop...the LED!!! Must try this as I am not sure I have tried it without the indicator and maybe that is what causes the pop. Although...it is only on turning off that the pop occurs, so maybe not...still, worth a try I guess. It is interesting that Primal doesn't get as bad a pop (mine isn't like the pop you get when you turn an amp off or anything, just annoying!)...I have often wondered if it had something to do with humbucking pickups...though, there again, my strat uses a stacked single coil in the bridge, so that is humbucking... Well, the mystery pop continues. We have discussed one way to fix it though...if remote powered, you could leave the circuit on all the time and simply disconnect the driver on bypass. The pop appears to be a back current from the driver coil itself so I figure that this would fix it. A battery wouldn't last long, but if powered by remote like the Line 6 guitar's can be, it wouldn't be an issue. Perhaps there are some other fixes too. I suspect that something could be done with electronic switching, if sophisticated enough but the whole idea of this DIY stuff is to keep it simple. You could get an even bigger switch and bypass both the batteries = and - for instance, that might do it too. It would be interesting to see what a humbucking driver (bilateral) like the commercial units use based on the thin driver theories in relation to the pop, EMI reduction and overall performance too. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I'm FINALLY going to get round to buying all the parts for the sustainer project on monday- so give me a few weeks and I'm hoping I'll have a working sustainer (and probably a few questions to pester you with along the way ) I think I'll try out the remote power idea; just a few questions though: [bTW I have one of THESE to convert the mains supply to a usable DC voltage] -would it be as simple as just fitting one of these on the side of the guitar, or do I somehow need to find a switched version to turn off the battery at the same time? -Also I remember reading something in this thread about using a stereo cable to send the power to the guitar, What do I do then? would I just make a small external box for the stereo jack and the power supply to plug into? As an added bonus the mains transformer has a slider on it to select between a few different voltages- so I could see if the voltage has any effect on the operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Ok...another one going to give it a try...great. If you are buying a powersupply, a regulated one is best for giving a consistant voltage and cutting back on noise. This thing really runs on current which you will have no shortage of, the amp can take up to 12 volts but a lot less and should work. (9 volts is a standard size and easy to fit in the guitar) There is always a use for such a supply, running effects or some casio organ anyway! I have used rechargable 9 volt batteries, and thought to have a plug so that I could recharge it in the guitar....what I found was having two batterries and swapping them over while the other charged was better really for me. There was some stuff on the stereo lead to a box that split the power from supply and the audio that was pretty simple...it's in here somewhere, but untested...should work ok. Having a powersupply going to the guitar as well as a guitar lead seems like a pain in the butt though. You could get tricky with a completely different kind of lead...USB maybe....lol...to the power box. If you are looking at using an onboard battery anyway, perhaps just changing the battery, using rechargables or something is the best solution for now. It could be with a bit of fiddling the pop wont make much impact to you, and it is only when turning off the thing, not a problem if you use it all the time but for inportant stuff (recording, gigs, etc) you can have the same effect by turning down the sensitivity/gain control (if you use one) to zero (though you are still stuck on that pickup unless you take the bypass out...hmmmm). Here's a question for primal too I guess...what is your verdict on the sensitivity control? Useful or could you just as easily live without it? Remember, for less frustration and best results keep it simple and stick to the formula. You can make mods later but if it doesnt work and you've done something out of left field it can be hard to troubleshoot if you are having problems. best of luck... pete ps...long time diy sustainer contributor Tim/onelastgoodgye has been busy lately on other things but has been working on a new and innovative guitar...worth looking into (all merbu with carbon fibre epoxy top)...Tim's guitar project...you may remember Tim as having made the epoxy bobbinless driver with internal magnet and some amazing graphics earlier in the thread...good luck with everthing Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobin Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Hey guys/gals Pete, in DIY stompboxes, one of the biggest annoyances of popping. Normally, the colution is to put a largish resistor, say 1M at the input to the circuit to ground. Just a thought. As for switching, I'm looking at that as well, using FET switching, like boss pedals, or logic perhaps. I've got loads of free time over summer...no exams finally, so hopefully I'll get round to this soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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