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Hello again...just looking in after moving to my island...getting a bit chilly down here! Good to see the thread continues the tradition of long threads! Still...the computer didn't survive the mov

Excellent... This will be great, and I hadn't thought about that but the 4 ohm coils would take half the time and be easier to wind....alowing the use of quick epoxy like this...hope you wore rubbe

OK...well my computer wont read that file...coding error...

It certainly looks neat but it is not my sustainer so kindly stop refering to it by my name. What you havn't done though is tell the world how my sustainer...or yours...works in principle. That is your threat, and that's what I'm asking you to do because I don't want you poping up every couple of weeks getting abusive.

You say it's nothing new. It liiks like some of my earlier work, it certainly not what I've got going right now. I'm not saying that you plagerised my work. I'm saying that you said that "you come to this thread everyday (like many others) to check out new developments" and then you say you have a sustainer, you claim that I don't and if I do you "know exactly how it works".

All this maybe true and I just want you to go ahead and say it because I on't want you poping up once I start selling this thing and saying you want to stop me "'cause you thought of it first". I figure if you know, everybody may as well then at least I'll have a prior claim.

You say that "you could help me but you wont". That's the wrong attitude, we're not here to help me, we're here to help eachother and all you're doing is making yourself look like an ass and disrespecting the entire forum with your outbursts.

Yes I did make a reference to you (or one of your many names) and hoax together. This was because MR COFFEE was suggesting that I was being like you and makeing claims that I wasn't able to make...in short my sustainer was a fraud. You have also accused me of leading these people on and that I'm a fake. I've accused you of being berligerant and threatening and not backing up your claim that my sustainer is "nothing new", that you've done it all before.

The difference is that, as it turns out, he did contact me and went further to say that there was only three ways to make a sustainer work, that from what I have said I must be doing it this way, that he and others had tried that, and that my project was "doomed to failure". Well he was wrong in assuming the way I was doing it and he was wrong to assume that he had tried everything. I'm just saying that unlike you I can and will back up my work and take it very seriously and that you don't.

I believe you have a sustainer. It's nice that you've published a picture, now make good you threat and tell us how your/my sustainer works! Or don't, just make up your mind, just stop wasting valuable space on this thread! and stop making threats OK!

psw

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ANNOUNCEMENT….I’VE DONE IT!!!!

All that work yesterday has paid off and I can report that my Z series driver is a complete success.

That means that, baring a few quirks to iron out, the electronic part of the project is largely done for now and it’s on to boxing the thing up and testing the performance and ergonomics and reliability of the “thing”.

First, and obviously, by request, I’ll be putting some sound clips together. I’ve already started but it looks like the only way to get them to you is to email them to Tim / onelastgoodbye, then he’ll host them on his site (unless someone else has any better ideas), so that means they’ll be coming from Australia to Belgium to you, right around the world…this cyberspace is a weird thing. Anyway, I’ll be asking for patience and a little faith while I get this together.

So, what can I say, I’m really excited to have gotten the thing to this level of completion. This has been quite some ordeal and one long and at time torturous project. I really want to thank all you guys here for sticking by me and, I hope the end result to this stage, pleases you as much as it does me.

The Z driver was the key to answering a lot of the problems and performance issues. I’m not sure how universal the system will be, active pickups may be a problem and I haven’t tested it out on true humbuckers yet…there will need to be a special kit for each type of pickup…but all things in time.

For now I’m just going to sit back and play the guitar.

Back with some sound clips

psw / pete

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gREAT tIM

It's that battery hatch that's stoping me! For a catch I was thinking of using a couple of rare earth mags (mmx1.5), small but plenty powerful...the hinge has got me though.

Been playing my sustainer guitar...it's a lot of fun, learning all sorts of Vai like feedback tremolo tricks and stuff :D

I've got the circuit mounted to a sheet of cardboard and the control knob is really good in that position. It's a little too close..it slightly overhands the trem, on a standard strat thats where you're damping so I'd move it back 'cause you do knock it. With a floyd it would be fine, same with a les paul. When you increase the gain it looks like your bowing the strings with the side of your hand...it's quite a natural action actually.

We're going to want to space the switches a little more I suspect. I'm finding I'm leaving it on the whole time and activating it with the control knob but the mode switch is important. Perhaps the toggles could come out the side where the logo is on an angle with the on off towards the back. Just a thought. Then again I might use the push buttons.

I built a whole bunch of different variations on the Z driver principle, cooked a lot of components as I had to try and dismantle so of the earlier ones. Good news is that I found a mail order supplyer of the crucial part which is way cheaper and saves me a lot of travelling.

Also tried to build another preamp...I'll never learn will I.

Been making some tapes so will try and set up some sounds.

check you guys later

p

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Hey, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WELL DONE PSW :D . LETS CELEBRATE. I can't wait for the sound clips, its all comming together. YAY.

I read that post by Mr Coffee and was very pleased with what I read. It's nice to see some skeptecism, i class myself as having a skeptical mind, but I had faith in psw's project.

As for Wix. I'm not as patient as our good friend psw here. Despite you having a picture (only i might add) of a sustainer. You're still, in my opinion, an arrogant little twat who tends to contradict himself 9 times out of 10. I agree with psw, if you know all about psw's sustainer, then tell us, come on, let us know. I'd also like to know how YOURS sounds, so come on, exlain your system and psw's system which you know so much about. Your a waste of bloody time.

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Hey, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WELL DONE PSW  :D . LETS CELEBRATE. I can't wait for the sound clips, its all comming together. YAY.

I read that post by Mr Coffee and was very pleased with what I read. It's nice to see some skeptecism, i class myself as having a skeptical mind, but I had faith in psw's project.

As for Wix. I'm not as patient as our good friend psw here. Despite you having a picture (only i might add) of a sustainer. You're still, in my opinion, an arrogant little twat who tends to contradict himself 9 times out of 10. I agree with psw, if you know all about psw's sustainer, then tell us, come on, let us know. I'd also like to know how YOURS sounds, so come on, exlain your system and psw's system which you know so much about. Your a waste of bloody time.

you saw the video? take a look :http://www.ruiluis.com/sustainerpsw.zip

im not arrogant i just know that i saw someone acusing of things that i don´t eaven imagined thats bad!!!

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<shrug>

I dunno. There's certainly sustain of some sort happening in that video. It was hard to tell how musical it was, but it's more sustain than what I'm currently getting. :D

What I DO know is that there's more to it than, "it can be done" or "look what I did." It has to do with dedication, refinement, and looking at all angles of a project. psw has had a 'working' model for aeons, but something that works and something that works the way it SHOULD (or in a way that he wants) is a different story. Then there's the matter of choosing components and creating a model that will be marketable.

psw has done a lot of work, and to just dismiss it because "other people in the world have made sustainers" is ridiculous. In fact, the thread was started 43 pages ago with the very INTENTION of sharing techniques and discoveries with people who had done similar things or were working to create something similar. So rather than "this is easy" or whatever it is that you're trying to say, Wix, you could have become a valued and respected contributor to the discussion.

Greg

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I'm a firm believer that the world needs as many sustainer's as it can get...more power to wix...my computer wont load the video for some reason but I've been told it works for some. Clearly, from the wires coming from it, it is a hex design and there maybe other simularities to some stuff I was doing but nothing much to do with what I'm doing now and doesn't use my tiny x series technology as far as I can tell.

Anyway, ignore that...I'm having so much fun with this thing. I spent a bit of time trying to refine it a bit, canabulizign previous drivers as I had run out of parts! I had also moved everything around in my workroom and the place was a mess. I was poking around and I found an old driver which had exactly the features that I was after. It was made over six months ago but used in a different way and I didn't have my current circuitry. Wired it up and the thing works great.

I can't wait till I can get this out to you guys, it's so much fun. There's an all out scream some special boost and distortion features and some really neat unexpected (but hinted at back at the begining) sounds. For instance on a clean setting with the sustain gain down to just before sustain you can get cleanly picked notes with that die naturally, but as they fade, a halo of harmonic sustain lingers quietly like a kind of reverb type effect. The induction drive is just an insane boost. I'm a little worried for the pickups...I might need to tone it down. You can use it to get Via's talking trem/vol swell trick. Drop the trem and place your finger on the note you want to sound and release...the action of the trem is itself enough to set the feedback off...as it swells the pitch rises up and arrives on the pitch at the same time.

Clearly there's a lot to learn about it and there are things that are different from the sustainers out there at the moment. The box controls are good to0, you can easily adjust the gain control (that you do quite a bit) with the heel of your hand (mines a little too close on a standard strat.) in an almost bowing action and still do the string damping thing. I'm thinking of leaving it on all the time and using the knob to bring it in and out. Turning it right down will give you your straight sound.

I'm learning a bit about the controls just from playing it. I've got to earn a living and will be busy for a bit but I've had the tape running and Emre/transient and Tim/onelastgoodbye has offered to host them so I'll put up what I can when I can

Thanks for the support guys...without you guys I would have given up long ago.

psw

PS lets not forget what this is really all about...it's about putting the tools together to make some fabulous music, whatever turns you on. That's ultimately what drives me and I what to sell it just so the odds are well here some great stuff from someone out there and someone will be inspired from it. Plus, I get hte pleasure of owning the first one! But I don't think I'm some kind of Australian :D Steve Vai, this thing will only reach it's full potential when it's shared amoungst as many people as possible. Even if you just really amuse yourself with it...just as as I'm doing here...mission accomplished!!!! :D Rock on!

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Cheers jammy...I really appreciate that...a lot of guys have been following this thread for a long, looonnngg time I know! I'm just glad that I was able to come up with something usable.

pete

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I wondered where steve had gone...g'day Mr V.

Some bad news for you I'm afraid...you'll need a neck pickup to get a signal to the driver I'm afraid...

You can mount the thing internally if you wish, but you'll need room. I'm still working to get the circuit a little smaller to make it easier to do!

psw

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HERE ARE THE LONG AWAITED SUSTAINER SOUNDS

Finally I’ve worked out a way with the help of Lovekraft (who’s kindly hosting them) of bringing you these wave files of the sustainer system.

You’ll have to excuse the playing (I’ve not done much while developing this thing) and the sound quality (the background noise is mostly tape hiss. Also these are uncompressed wave files so some may be a little large (well, at least for my computer and connection).

All of these used the same, very clean amp settings running from a direct output from a Roland GA60 guitar amp with a little analog delay on there. They were recorded using headphones directly to a tape deck from the direct out then transferred from the tape with an original 70’s sony walkman using the windows sound recorder. Hence, they are pretty poor quality in regards to background noise.

Now log on to the following link and download the sounds for your listening pleasure:

PSW's Sustainer Sounds LK hosted web page

So here goes:

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ss-01

this some notes along the b string showing that the thing does sustain.

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ss-02

here are some picked and some “trem picked” (the raising of the trem is enough to trigger the note) notes. This has more gain and is in harmonic mode. This shows how, on the final note the octave fades in and takes over. The dive bomb at the end demonstrates that you can lower the strings without the device fretting out.

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ss-03

Here is the low E in harmonic mode. Notice the use of the trem to coax the octave out of it.

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ss-04a

ss-04b

Here is a really unusual and unique sound to this system. It’s the neck pickup selected on a clean sound with the sustainer creating an organ like pad in the background. It sounds like two instruments. These have some close intervals and you can see that it’s sustaining all of the notes pretty well evenly. The final chord (second sample) shows how eventually the notes of a chord can be sustained without one winning out over another, at least in this mode.

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ss-05a

ss-05b

some single notes in the same mode as above in the first sample. The second sample is the same thing in “induction mode” on a low setting and with the harmonic switch on. Same amp settings, etc.

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ss-06

Some blues licks now. “induction mode” with the harmonic switch on (same amp settings remember)

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ss-07

Same as above but with more sustain gain showing the extra boost and distortion effects of the “induction mode”

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ss-08

Careful…getting louder…even more “induction gain”. Here are a few more blues licks with some bends. Some bends can be used to manipulate the envelope of the note as can the use of the trem or hammering on lightly to create a swell as is shown at the end of the sample.

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ss-09

Now here’s some chunky heavy riffs in induction mode with the sustain maxed out and the harmonic mode off. Heavy and loud (but still the same amp settings)!

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ss-10

Here’s an Eminor chord with the same settings. This shows there’s almost a hex-distortion effect from the individual drivers allowing the notes to continue to sustain out and sound even at extreme settings.

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ss-11

sliding along the g and b strings from one end to the other…still sustaining well at the 20th fret. You’ll notice that the harmonic “fade” is spread so that the final note sounds the ocatve almost immediately. Also this final note and the others above would have sustained indefinitely had they not been stopped.

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Crazy

A bonus little crazy sound to finish off…don’t be scared! The squeaks are the tremolo springs on my crap strat. Sounds like some bizarre Theramin from a sci-fi movie.

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Ok

Hopefully this shows a little of the amazing variety of sounds and techniques of playing this thing has the potential to do. These were discovered on only my second sitting with the device and I’m sure there are a lot more crazy things you can get up to with it. There’s no doubt that improvements to the device can be made but I hope you agree there’s a lot of musical potential in the thing.

Not having anything to really compare it to performance wise, I don’t know what effects may be unique to it or how it stacks up. There should be no doubt that the thing produces sustain.

My idea for this thing is to produce a range of sounds, not simply to sustain notes but to manipulate them. As a bonus there’s a new type of distortion and a massive signal boost potential, by virtue of the way in which my device works that’s quite different.

Anyway, having heard the thing now…give me some feedback

psw

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It certainly works!

Hate to criticize after all the work you've done getting the sounds up, but--

They're all done with the same (mediocre) distortion! :D I'd like to hear it with a smoother distortion and also clean.

The induction stuff was highly interesting! The possibilities to make either traditional "feedback" sounds, or just coast some screams out... neat-o!

Greg

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It certainly works!

Hate to criticize after all the work you've done getting the sounds up, but--

They're all done with the same (mediocre) distortion!  :D  I'd like to hear it with a smoother distortion and also clean.

The induction stuff was highly interesting!  The possibilities to make either traditional "feedback" sounds, or just coast some screams out... neat-o!

Greg

:D i agree

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there's a lot of clipping, which makes it hard to judge the actual sound. Considering all the soundbytes use the same amp settings, it seems the device really has a lot more 'range' and possibilities than current sustainers. The quality of the distortion is a bit mmmm...doubtful though. A lot attributes to the recording chain (! :D ) I guess...

Overall it seems like the device is still to much 'out of control' , especially the induction thingie. Could it be the circuit is pumping too much juice (as in over-amplifying)? Maybe you underestimate the efficiancy of your driver, dunno. I really liked the clean stuff, the distorted part needs taming imo. More like a boost into a tube amp than a solidstate fuzz.

But hey it's working and I can hear the potential, keep it up.

Tim

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****ING FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Well done psw, ace sound clips, although I do kind of agree with the criticisms of the distortion. But the very fact that you have it working and producing those sounds means you deserve an incredible round of applause (sustained by the device indefinately :D).

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Thanks guys...

All valid critisisms. The distortion is caused by the pickup sensing the drive signal and amplifying it with a tremendous gain that will overload any amp it's put into...It needs taming down. LK is going to see what he can do with the driver.

The potential is there and the thing has been running on the same battery now for hours, on and off with no sign of dying yet, so that's good. These sound bites were recorded on only my second go with it. The last one with a different, related design. While the bridge pickup is a stacked humbucker, the neck is a microphonic single coil and it's sending the primary signal and any of it's noise so the quality is down in that regard.

I've lashed out on a set of strings so I'll be putting the les paul back together and see how that goes. There are some practical problems too, the thing sits ontop of the pickup directly over the poles. Pickups without flat tops are going to be a problem so I may have to go back a step and develop the X type system some more.

Anyway, this could take some time and I think I've run out of a lot of it so progress will be slow I'm afraid. Other things in life to do you know...but the concept is sound, it's just a matter of getting something going, and that may take more ingenuity than I've got just at the moment.

psw

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Hey PSW,

This may be a little late but i noticed a good price at Radio Shack for rare earth magnets. And i know you do fiddle with them for your sustaining project. You probably already saw it, but maybe not. Letting you know that 1/4" pieces are like a $1.50. I thought it was a good deal. Just letting you know.

Good luck and hopfully when LK is done, the effect will be great, great being and under-estament.

Keep it up,

Monkey

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Thank's Monkey man...

Actually, I get mine from Aussie Magnets and they're a lot cheaper than that. Of course you've got to buy a hundred of the critters. I'm on my third batch in 2 years and am using 3mm now as the 5mm (1/4") was a little too strong.

BTW you can stick them together you know to get a longer cylinder and a lot of focus but the strength obviously increases as well. I'm still got some ideas for pickup designs using RE magnets. I might even give them a go, just to take a break from the sustainer project.

The benefit of RE magnets is that they have enormous power for their size. You can make it a bit more like say a fender pole by sticking it to some steel but then there's not much point doing that particularly. I'm interested in using this intense localised field for what it is. One of my designs has screws that adjust the position of the magnet's within the coil in an attempt to change the resonances and power for individual strings and another that's like a stack but the lower portion can be adjusted from a dummy coil to a fully magnetically active humbucker. Then there's always making thing's smaller. After doing this project for so long, I'm getting a little interest in active low impedance pickups.

It would probably do me good to work on something else for a while

psw

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hey PSW recently there was a member here named Wix who built a sustainer system. Look at a pic here. It's placed above the neck pickup. I'm not sure how much info you will get out of him as he does not speak very good english. Just thought you should know about that.

Edited by Godin SD
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