I have been enlightened. . . .

[nonamemx]

I have been using stranded wires for some time now. Stripping them is very tough. You cut too deep, and then little tiny wires fall out and go all over. The wires are always breaking out of the soldering connection after they have been bent back and forth several times. .. .

but I just got a roll of Solid wire last week. Wow. Its so easy. You just cut a little, doesn't even have to be all the way through, and yank: you have a perfectly stripped wire. . . .ahhhh the feeling! Im sure it carries a better signal too.

Is there any reason not to use solid wire?

[StratDudeDan]

it's not as flexible and doesn't return to a "neutral" bend or curve when you bend it. stiffer, i guess you could say.

i use stranded. i prefer the flexability and don't mind the signal loss.

[jefm]

Sure...you can get breaks under the insulation...stranded wire it can happen to but it's less of a concern...one breaks the rest are there...

also if you knick the solid wires it decreases the performance somewhat (increased capacitance or resistance...I can't quite remember???)

It's a concern of course with stranded as well but it seems to stand up to it better...

but yes...solid is easier to strip...but if you tin the wire properly it's just as easy with stranded....just takes practice

in a guitar either should be fine

[lovekraft]

I dont think you'll find any appreciable difference in signal loss at the current levels guitars produce. A good set of wire strippers will eliminate the problems with stranded wire. I doubt that you can measure any audible artifacts from using either one ( unless of course, you are Eric Johnson ). Use whichever you find easiest to work with - most people prefer the flexibility of stranded cable. And before you spend extra money for some "audiomagical" cable, read John Atchley's common sense tutorial on wire and cables:

Cords and Cables

[GregP]

I dont think you'll find any appreciable difference in signal loss at the current levels guitars produce. A good set of wire strippers will eliminate the problems with stranded wire. I doubt that you can measure any audible artifacts from using either one ( unless of course, you are Eric Johnson ).

It's funny 'cause it's true.

Since we're on the subject of cables, are shielded cables a good 'investment' (dunno the price, though I don't imagine they'll break the bank! )? Alternatively, is there an effective way to shield regular cable? Is it a non issue? Should I not even be worrying about it?

Greg

[lovekraft]

Use shielded cable (preferably durable, low-capacitance cable) for low-level signals wherever it is feasible. It's probably overkill inside a well-shielded cavity, but it really improves the noise in semi-hollow axes, and I always use it for wiring remote pickup switches, like in a SG. I also use it for connecting the first stage of a tube amp to the input jack, but lots of amp builders get away without it ( I'm just obsessive like dat). Just make sure you don't accidently make a ground loop through the shield - when in doubt, I only ground the shield on the end that goes to the star point. If I'm confusing the issue, the Guitar Nuts website explains everything better than I ever could.

[jefm]

Hmmm...on the same subject...what about twisted pairs...

In networking cable it helps prevent interference...I guess with a mono signal it's not important...but I have had in the back of my mind this idea for using Sheilded twisted pair cable...probably a dumb idea though

[lovekraft]

Twisted pair cable will help lower the induced noise, no doubt. We can't take full advantage of it because of the high-impedance single ended nature of standard guitar wiring, but you could use it provided it doesn't have higher capacitance, which would cut high end. I'm not sure where the point of diminishing returns is, but again, you may not notice any audible difference. Unless it's more expensive, it's worth a try, if it's not a real pain to work with.

[jefm]

Well I was thinking of wiring some RJ45 connectors and using some network cable for some short runs from the PU's...mostly to make changing PU's easier...

[lovekraft]

Good idea! You could easily set up a guitar as a test-bed for pickup combos. Then you could change your pickups depending on your mood - the ultimate fashion statement.

[Devon Headen]

Aren't EMG's connected with some kind of snap in cable? I know I've seen ads for a pup that worked like that.

[Jehle]

The only tidbit I could add about solid versus stranded wire is that higher frequencies are carried more on the outter surface of a wire while solid wire is better for DC currents as the electron drift is carried more twards the center of the wire (very much like water through a hose).

So, stranded wire is more effective for transmitting higher frequencies because you have more surface area than a solid wire for the same cross section.

Having said all that, I still can't tell the difference for guitar type frequencies going through solid or stranded wire. I am NOT Eric Johnson.

[lovekraft]

That's correct, the "skin effect" of conductors at high frequency is well-documented. The thing that the hi-fi mojo-mongers don't tell you is that it is fairly negligible below the 100 MHz range, and virtually nonexistent at audio frequencies. Just another way to sell expensive "special" cables, like oxygen-free copper.

[nonamemx]

Aren't EMG's connected with some kind of snap in cable? I know I've seen ads for a pup that worked like that.

Yep.

But you could do the same thing with passive pickups, and swap them easily without even heating the soldering iron. . ..

[darren wilson]

That's a great idea. RJ-45 is probably overkill, since you only need four conductors. RJ-11 (phone jacks) would do fine. It would work great on a guitar with all the electronics mounted on a pickguard. With rear-routed cavities, you'd just have to have a nice fat hole going from the pickup cavities into the control cavity so you can fit the connector through. Then again, there are probably some good push-fit connectors that are much more compact than an RJ-11. (like the ones EMG uses)

Back to the wire subject, i have a Dean EVO that has a remote switch, and running shielded wire up to the switch and back made a huge difference. I highly recommend it.

[Hotrock]

This month I'm mostly an Electrical Engineer (as opposed to a Mechanical Engineer or a roofer - don't ask) so I'd like to add something......

Jehle has it bang on (or so I believe, but I could be wrong) there's probably 50 odd times more surface area in stranded wire than solid (obviously depending on the type of wire, number of strands etc)

As for the twisted pairs - yup that should work too

But what I wanted to add is that in my guitar (a through neck for all intents and purposes) I have used a McDonalds straw as a kind of cable duct, covered it with insulating paint and epoxied it into a recess on the side of the neck. When the neck and body are glued together, you won't be able to see it but when I route the pup recesses, I will route through the duct and it'll be easy to pass the wires from one end of the guitar to the other in a sheilded cavity. Hope that helps someone out

[Gorecki]

Yep, I'm jumping on the stranded wire wagon. It's just like a speaker wire, the higher the stand count, the less induced resistance. Granted guitar wiring is very short in length in general and seriously reducing the chance of induced resistance but none the less I'd air on the side of 'everything inline makes the whole' on a sound signal.

My 1 1/4 cents (not yet qualified for 2 cents)

Brian

[lovekraft]

But doesn't most coaxial cable for RF have a solid core? I know the cable coming from my TV cable connection does - and isn't that an order of magnitude higher in frequency than our audio range signals? I really think the surface area is trivial compared with capacitance, but I'm not going to evangelize about this. Do whatever makes you feel most comfortable (or get EJ to give it a listen and see what he thinks ).

[ansil]

i you have trouble with wires its usually cause you are not using the right kind.. sure you can go to radioshack and get any of there wire and it will work but why make it hard on yourself.. there are plenty of good wires that are stranded and are stiffer adn hold place better but not as good as solid core wire.. try silver wire.. its free in almost any ancient amp tv radio etc etc.. everythign i build has silver wire in it.. i try to use it almost exclusively. i learned this from the guy who rewired my guitar and educated me.. with al my wires breaking off and such..

he did in an hour what took me four hours to do..[15 posistions three push pulls fiveway switch with a trick to make it a ten way switch. too complicated to go into here, and too complicated to even be doing in the first place in that little guitar cavity.. {ibanez saber copy.}.]

anyway next time i did it i used the recomended wire and never had any problems again..

also silver solder helps out too..

ok gotta get back to listening to ozzy now.

Fire In The SKy................ can't you see that all my castles are burning.

[jefm]

That McDonalds Straw idea sounds awesome....shelded and it doesn't catch on bits of wood....

The Network cable I was looking to take advantage of the twisted pairs....I know it's bigger and I know it's overkill....the RJ11 would probably work ok.....actually since nothing ever moves about any connector would work...I was just looking for convenience...it just seems cooler to plug something in like that...not like anyone would see it...but meh...also cleaner too....rather than having a bunch of leads a little plug and an already neatly wrapped wire.....but the twisted pairs are twisted at different pitches to avoid "crosstalk" I imagine this would affect the dynamics of the sound....but for as short a distance and at the levels it'd be used at it likely wouldn't be much....meh who knows

Silver wire though...never thought about it...bad if you build for a werewolf I suppose...so you mean stranded silver???

[lovekraft]

There might be some minor inductance increase from the twisting, but again I doubt it would become an issue at audio frequencies. Try it, you'll probably like it. I think the straw idea is brilliant, and so much easier than using copper tubing, like they did in some of the old radios. When in doubt, try it, unless it's expensive or dangerous -we can all think of reasons why it might not work, but there'sonly one way to find out. Silver works for Ansil, maybe network cable works better for you.

[Jehle]

From the equations that I worked out as an undergraduate, twisted pairs act much like coaxial cables, just not quite as efficient. The main reason to use twisted pair is to take advantage of the geometry for noise reduction. Coax still is the better choice for that though.

[lovekraft]

This thread is from Ampage - Wire for amps? For best tone (Caution - insensitive language and bad manners). They're pretty brutal over there, but it does cut down on the noise factor, I guess. There's good info on wire in the thread, if you can get past the sarcasm.

<edit> Thread expired!! I forget that some forums dump posts after a couple of weeks, sorry!!

[nonamemx]

I'm feeling really stupid, but where are the replies in that thread?

[jefm]

Coax could be good...but it's big and doesn't offer as many places to connect leads....and also doesn't offer the quick snap in fit....

At this point I'm arguing over a moot point....depending on how much room I have I'll likely go with RJ-11....I don't think I could convince myself that I'd get enough of a benefit to bother.....if I had 50 ft of wire in my guitar though...then we'd be talking