soapbarstrat Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 80% of PRS guitars sound like ****. The ones without the maple tops sound better (Paul said so himself), which means the ones that look more " like ****" sound better. Those would sound even better with less, or no finish. And I'm sold on the idea of no-finish or light oil finish after playing guitars with a lacquer finish then scraping it off, then hearing the difference. I always pick up the oil finished one for recording. I used to paint guitars and did it quite well, then I stopped partly because I thought it was a lot of work just to make the guitar sound worse. But I don't build guitars from scratch, I just like making ones that already exist better. And I only strip body finishes for myself. (necks for others sometimes) Of course I look at the pictures of guitars people build here, and I can see the workmanship, but I usually never say anything, because I can't tell what the guitar sounds like. I guess the guy who started this thread builds guitars. If so, he could offer bodies with " wipe-on" finishes. It would save him time and money. If he'd have his guitars at a guitar show, I think many would like the feel of his guitars after they had picked up an Ibanez that's finished like a jet-ski . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsherman2006 Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 i think that some of these people might just prefer the way unfinished wood looks to these 3d quilted tops. I know i really like natural wood, so maybe they see it to be unnecessary because the wood unfinished or with a wipe on protective coat already pleases their eye the same way that a beautiful top would. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 I used to paint guitars and did it quite well, then I stopped partly because I thought it was a lot of work just to make the guitar sound worse. But I don't build guitars from scratch, I just like making ones that already exist better. And I only strip body finishes for myself. (necks for others sometimes) After you remove the finish do you close it with oil or something? And If you do can you post some photos? Since I dont have almost any experience with finishing my self I would like to see the different results you get from different finishes. Can anyone suggest a site or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 i did my first guitar with a tung oil finish...it sounds very nice but one thing i noticed is that when i open the widow of my room while i amplaying the humidity totally changes the way the guitar feels and sounds...so i am redoing it in laquer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Wes, high humidity will still affect a lacquered guitar. That's what I was noticing with necks. When it got humid, it would change the necks on both the oil finished and lacqered finished. Not sure if one was affected more than the other, but I had to mess with the truss-rod in both cases when I wanted to tweak the set-up. I found a photo I took several years ago before I really knew how to use my friend's digital camera, so it's real blurry and not worth showing, but here it is anyway: http://www.onlinerock.com/services/soapbarstrat//woody2.jpg History of that guitar: Bought the body in the late 80's for $21.00. Body was primer and I left it laying around for years until I put a neck on it, and made a pickguard from some thin oak veneer plywood. It didn't sound good. I then scraped and sanded the body clean and applied a quick wipe of danish oil, wiping off the excess right away, doing little 3" x 3" areas at a time. It sounded great after that. Then I made a "better" pickguard out of solid oak, which you see on it in the picture. I put an oil finish on that pickguard. The guitar didn't sound as good then, but I left it that way for a couple of years. Then when I bought a P-90 for the guitar, I put the first "plywood" pickguard back on, which had never had a finish applied. The bare pickguard has some pretty bad dirty areas on it now, and has extra control holes and all kinds of stuff that make it look "crappy", but it's one of the top 5 best sounding guitars I've played, and maybe heard. The body looks as good as the day I applied the oil finish. I think I had sanded up to 2000 grit on the body, so it's like a satin finish. Kind of like satin finished or nickel hardware compared to chrome harware. bridge pickup in the photo is a Gibson P-94, but the P-90 I put in their later is even more raw sounding. More info than you probably wanted. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Everyone has their own ideas of an acceptable finish. But I agree with Rhoads, if your gonna try to sell any, it's gonna be harder because it just looks like you cut the guitar out and slapped all the parts on it to me. I'm not saying some people doesn't like that, but I'd bet if you put it up against a PRS, Gibson, Fender, etc.. and tried to sell it for the same price, your not gonna even have a chance. Let's face it, most guitar buyers will let looks of a guitar decide which one they want. Now what's the real kicker is, and the real goal everyone should be shooting for; is to make a guitar that not only looks good, but play equally as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalo1022 Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 its all a personall prefernce thing. i personally love the look of oil on wood it makes the guitar look more alive but then again a mirror finnish of a really nice quilt looks great too. now when i make a guitar for myslef i ould msot likely do a n oil finnish because i liek the look and its easy to use and it sounds nice, but someone else might liek the look of a guitar done all up liek a piece of and this guitar can sti ll sound great ......so in summationplay what you want, some ppl want a guitar thats well rounded adn some ppl wanta tone machine it all opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 i love how people keep comparing a car to guitars.... it cracks me up, people buying a BMW or porcha instead of a used mazda to drive from point A to point B in a city don't get there any faster or differently unless you're on the autobon in germany.. shinny objects are pretty much the modern day version of a human maitting tool... to attract attention, look i have money to buy an expensive car... or the simple fact that it's shiny will catch peoples attention.. I've got to agree with Big D, i'm kinda fond of the "satin" finished guitars, and oil finish on natural woods that don't need to be sealed. Personally even on electric guitars, i like to be able to feel the guitar vibrating as much as possible which does get damped down as you thicken up and solidify the finish on the guitar. The gloss is nice, but way to much work to get perfect, and you have to buff it everytime you touch it unless you like having oily finger prints on your pretty little guitar. Frankly i'm kinda tired of seeing the same old high gloss mirror finish, don't get me wrong it's a very nice look, but i wish there was a bit more wide spread varaiety in terms of of guitar finish other then just a couple of custom guitars here and there and the odd "goth" guitar that has a satin finish. Asside from the limited protection a thick coat of buffed lacquer provides, it's pretty much just a selling point for a guitar, "wow that one's really shinny, it must be good"... we've pretty much just been hipnotized into buying shiney things for so long that now anything that isn't shiney is either regected upon first review, or takes to long to become widely accepted as acceptable, cool, and good. Basicly we live in an age where utility isn't the primary reason the majority of purchases or purchasing descisions are made, often due to the "the shinier the better!" and "well even if it doesn't work as well at least it will look good" syndrome's that's been subconsiously sold to us all our lives in flashy commercials. bla bla bla..... i'll be suprised if anyone actually reads all that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanKirk Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Basically we live in an age where utility isn't the primary reason the majority of purchases or purchasing descisions are made, often due to the "the shinier the better!" and "well even if it doesn't work as well at least it will look good" syndrome's that's been subconsiously sold to us all our lives in flashy commercials. I totally agree and unfortunately, because of what you just explained, many manufacturers gear towards making it look good instead of focusing more attention to how it should function. Products such as guitars manufactured overseas are made to catch the eye of the first-time buyer or student not the experienced players. Why? because that's where the money is. If it sounds and feels like crap the beginner most likely won't even know it. Pump out as many as possible and don't worry so much about quality. Then the major manufacturers can look at the bottom line at the end of the month or quarter and pat themselves on the back for seeing how many 'units' of a product were sold. It frustrates me but business is about making money. To make money you need to know how and where the market is. High-end products are great but they just don't have enough market-share. So the market gets flooded with crap while alot of high quality innovative designs never get made because they cost too much to make or won't sell fast enough. To compensate, a company has to charge out the yin-yang to make up for lost revenue. Anyways....sorry I went on a rant Move along people, nothing to see here Oh Yeah! aw lawk shonny geetars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page_Master Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 wow Derek, i couldn't of said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 I do think if you have a bare-wood or oil finish, you should still do a good job. Like I said, I probably sanded up to 2000 grit. I think I even steel-wooled the body. If I could only find a close-up picture that I had, you'd see how nice it is. Funny thing is I guess an oil finish is supposedly more prone to getting dirt spots and defects from use, but my oil finished body stays looking the same, while the painted body guitars start to show cracks, shrinkage and always smudge marks just from holding it (I'm thinking of my black guitar with the Fender factory finish on it). Some guitars just don't go with the "relic" look that they are bound to get if someone likes to play them a lot. Like 80's metal guitars. They just start to look real crappy when the chips start showing up. Sure they can then be repainted, but then there's the waiting for the paint to dry. Paint dries in a few months ? I don't know for sure, but I've seen people say it actually takes years to really be considered dry. Bottom line is, I'm too bored to just shut up about painted guitars. Cars on the autobahn in Germany don't always make it to point B. But like the flipped-over smoking Porshe I saw about 2 months ago, the finish that still remains is quite nice and shiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page_Master Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 i think i might try something different and make a violin ground and varnish. all the products to make it are readily available to me plus the application of it is very simple. the question is, would it last long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 i think i might try something different and make a violin ground and varnish. all the products to make it are readily available to me plus the application of it is very simple. the question is, would it last long? The main thing is that violin players take better care of their instruments than guitar players do. Another thing is that they use a bow, so there's no pick to scratch the body. They don't have knobs and switches to play with, causing their fingernails to scratch the body while messing with knobs. They also tend not to like the varnish on the back of the neck. At least the one's I've seen don't have a surface finish on the back of the neck. Maybe it used to be there but was worn away. Oh yeah, and since there's no finish on the back of the neck, it looks worn and even dirty, but I never heard anyone say that looks bad. What about one of those wipe-on poly finishes ? Probably a good choice if you want a real thin, but strong surface finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 i think i might try something different and make a violin ground and varnish. all the products to make it are readily available to me plus the application of it is very simple. the question is, would it last long? You mean French Polishing? Many acoustic guitar luthiers use this technique so they can have a thin finish that still (can) have a high gloss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I wouldn't buy a car for the finish, but the finish is an added bonus. I feel like making my guitar look good, because I'm not just hearing it, I gotta see it too. Having a finish makes you feel like you accomplished something. Edit: I like dull finishes, but finishes not the less. I would rather it have something on there then nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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