Phil Mailloux Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 I want to build myself a bass cabinet. I've selected the Eminence Delta 12LF speaker for the project, it's 500watt into 8 ohm. I'm totally confused with the tweeter though. What's the difference between piezo tweeters, horn drivers, compression drivers ect... Is that all different names for the same thing?? I've noticed most pro bass cabinets use "Foster high frequency compression horn tweeter" what's that? Where can I find it?? (searches on the net produced nothing) and do I need a crossover with that? I'd like my cab to be as simple as possible (i.e. no crossover) but have a volume pot for the tweeter (so I can turn the damn thing off if it annoys me). Can anybody clarify what I need for tweeter and if one company's tweeter from another is a big defference or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 The only way you're going to get around building a crossover is to use one of those piezo tweeters, and IMO they're useless for bass guitar since they kick in about where the harmonic content runs out and only seem to accentuate finger noise and fret click. I'm also not a big fan of that particular driver, since its resonant frequency (and useable frequency range) is well above your lowest note. I don't know what you're looking for in terms of sound, but I've found that a better woofer (resonance<40Hz) used with a midrange driver that cuts of between 6KHz and 10KHz with a crossover around 500 Hz gives a great sound for jazz and blues. For Rock/ Metal gigs, I use a 4-10 ported cab for an onstage monitor and let the PA do most of the work. You can probably get fairly good response even below resonance if you put that driver in a large tuned cabinet, but if you're planning on using a 12, I'd recommend taking a look at the Eminence LAB12 driver - with a midrange driver or a couple of 10s crossed over about 250 hz or biamped, you should have clean, earth-shaking bass and all the sparkle you could ask for. Just my thoughts, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted June 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 huh... yeah... how 'bout translating that in english? OK, well, I selected the eminence delta 12lf because of its price (half of the lab12) and its also used in the enclosures that avatar speakers use. Since I got good critics from that company I figured it wouldn't hurt to get the same drivers. I plan on building a closed cabinet. My electronics and speaker building skills are right now non-existent. I just plan on copying an already existing cabinet. My question is actually what sort of tweeter can I use for this as I have no idea what is good or compatible. I read somewhere else that you could just wire a tweeter in series with the driver and a capacitor and wouldn't need a crossover for that type of cabinet. Is that true and what type of tweeters are applicable? Thanks for the answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_ed Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 Hi Phil, Use more than one speaker to produce different frequencies , use a crossover. Or it will sound like crap. It is that simple. One of the things that separate lower end from higher end speakers (home audio) is the quality of the crossovers. And doing them properly is not cheap either. If you want a full soliloquy on the subject, let me know. Talk to you later. Guitar Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 huh... yeah... how 'bout translating that in english? Sorry, I didn't realize how limited your knowledge was (no slam intended) - you might want to consider spending some time researching how speakers and cabinets work before building one to avoid making a costly mistake (been there, done that!). You can just about (not quite) get away with shoehorning some 12s into a plywood box and get a passible guitar sound out of it, but a bass cab takes a little more consideration if you want it to sound good. Dave at Avatar is a master at getting bang for a buck! I seriously doubt that I could build one of his cabinets for much less than he's charging for them. I plan on building a closed cabinet. My electronics and speaker building skills are right now non-existent. I just plan on copying an already existing cabinet. My question is actually what sort of tweeter can I use for this as I have no idea what is good or compatible. If you're building a sealed cabinet, find the biggest, most efficient driver you can get your hands on, build a box the size that the manufacturer recommends (most will list a minimum size in cu ft or liters), and front-load it. A sealed box is the least efficient way to use a bass driver, but at least you wont have to worry about tuning ports or anything like that. As for which tweeter to use, it'll depend on the power level you're planning on using and the money you've got to spend. Good HF drivers aren't cheap! The Foster horns that Avatar uses are fairly good, or you could always use a pair of 10s and a suitable crossover. I read somewhere else that you could just wire a tweeter in series with the driver and a capacitor and wouldn't need a crossover for that type of cabinet. Is that true and what type of tweeters are applicable? Yes, you can, but as Guitar Ed mentioned, it's probably not going to sound good, especially at the volume you'll need to play out with. I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to explain that a little planning up front can save you buckets of trouble down the road. I could probably be more help if you were a little more specific about your application, like " weekend warrior, small clubs, Hartke 3500 head, classic rock/ metal/pop, competing with 2 50 watt half stacks..." or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted June 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 I had read over the capacitor/tweeter serial thing on a cabinet building website but I didn't realize that bass cabs were different. If you want a full soliloquy on the subject, let me know. I have no idea what a soliloquoy is but i've got a feeling i'd love one of those (If that's a tutorial at least) The Foster horns that Avatar uses are fairly good, or you could always use a pair of 10s and a suitable crossover. What's a "10"? Is that a sort of tweeter or are you talking about 10 inch drivers? I could probably be more help if you were a little more specific about your application, like " weekend warrior, small clubs, Hartke 3500 head, classic rock/ metal/pop, competing with 2 50 watt half stacks..." or whatever. Here goes: band practice with drummer and small gigs. Amp is an SWR workingman 160 watts. I do lots of slapping, play a 5-string bass and play hard rock, metal too once in a while. I'd like the cab to support 300 watts rms, In case I ever decide to upgrade the amp. I'd also like to know what companies make good tweeters and what I have to look for in a tweeter when I look at the manufacturer's spec sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 No, the series capacitor will work as a crossover, it's just that it usually sounds horrible, especially at higher volumes. There simply isn't a cheap and simple way to make a really good crossover from common, inexpensive parts. When I said "10s", I simply meant a 10 inch guitar speaker, not ideal for hifi, but probably ideal for a bass cabinet, since they roll off some of the annoying HF like finger noise and fret click a little bit. Since you play a 5-string, you're going to want response down to about 30Hz (the pitch of the low B string). The rated usable frequency range on the Delta 12LF bottoms out at 45Hz (slightly below F# on your E string), so below that the driver won't be able to reproduce the sound of your strings without losing a lot of the bottom. A ported cabinet will help bring up the bass by physically interacting with the driver to make it more efficient in that low range. For some basic info on how all this stuff works, do a Google search on "DIY speaker building", or go to this page and scrool down to the bottom of the left column for some articles on speaker design and building. For the kind of music you're playing, I'd probably use a Kappa Pro 18 in a ported box about 24"wx36"hx12"d with a pair of Legend 1058s or maybe even Ragin Cajun 10s and a crossover that cuts off the 10s below 350 Hz and a pad (speaker attenuator) to control the level of the 10s. There's free software out there to help design ported cabinets (WinISD from LinearTeam is the one I use -they even have some online calculators on their site) and quite a few sites with practical tutorials (a couple of my favorites are here - check out both the Best Small Bass Speaker Cabinet and the Honkin' Big Bass Speaker Cabinet). Once you know a little more about how this stuff works, you'll be better able to decide where to make your compromises between cost and performance. As for quality tweeters, JBL, EV, Celestion and just about every other speaker manufacturer makes a horn/compression tweeter that would be suitable - again, it's really all about money vs performance. For instance, you might get away with a Delta 15LF and a pair of Beta 8As with a pxb2-500 Eminence crossover and a different ported box. HTH, it's not a simple subject, and I probably don't help with my lame explanations. Maybe Guitar Ed can make things clearer, or somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted June 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Thanks for the answers guys, Does anyone know which is a good book I could buy that teaches me how to build a crossover and how to tune a vented cab properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Kevin O'Connor's DIY Speaker Cabinets, Vance Dickason's Speaker Cookbook, Designing/Building Your Own Speaker System by David Weems, and over 250,000 web pages ( Google search on "speaker cabinet design"). And the links mentioned earlier. <edit>This might be a good place to start: Loudspeakers for Musicians from SpeakerBuilder It's a project -oriented book, but covers cabinet design theory fairly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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