Truss Rods

[shakyhands]

Hi, have been a guitarist for years and have also done small repairs etc (mainly pots and switches) over the years. One of the things that worries me though is I have never touched a truss rod. I have heard from guys that have snapped rods and caused all sorts of problems fiddling around with them. I have read bits and pieces here and there about adjusting but maybe I'm a big chicken..... cause I worry that If I am asked to do an adjustment on anyones guitar, I may snap or do some damage. I suppose most luthiers and regular builders felt the same at first. I was spoilt, my dad was a guitarist and he used to adjust the rods on my axes when he was alive if adjustments were needed. How do I overcome my truss rod phobia?

[krazyderek]

no don't be scared, yes it's fairly common, make slow/ minor adjustments at a time, and keep track of what you've done (ie: one half turn, three quarter turns) so that you can always return back to where you were if you need to start over.

there's a great setup tutorial on the main page, aswell as one i beleive on the jemsite, that tell you what to look for in the neck when adjusting the truss rod.

[daveq]

jemsite.com has a good article on how to setup a guitar. The more you read about it, the more comfortable you will be with adjusting it. The key is small adjustments (in the correct direction) and give the neck some time to settle before making another adjustment if it is needed. I think you'll be surprised at how simple it really is. Of course, if you don't know what you're doing, you can really screw up a neck. I think if you read that article on jemsite - you'll have a good understanding.

[shakyhands]

Thanks guys. Yeah I remember when dad adjusted rods, he'd give them a small turn then set the guitar aside for awhile. sometimes he'd adjust my necks and say give that a go for a day or so then we'll have another look.

I've read about setups etc and know that truss rods are used for getting right relief and not as some people think....to set the action . Its just that I worried about it a bit but I suppose if I did it the way my dad did ..little by little, I shouldnt have any real problems. On another note, my young son lives interstate and had a fender p bass that needed rod adjusted. Took it to a guitar shop and it was a little better but after awhile had a great bow in it again. When he took it back to repair shop again, guy said the rod was snapped. Guy played around with it and i think did some little mods (not sure what they were at present). This is what I was worried about. I do a few small wiring repairs and play around with electronics but I am now interested in doing setups and some body repairs as well. I was worrying a bit that if I adjusted anyones truss rod. And they later had major problems with neck, they'd be blaming me.

[Black Mariah]

Don't be afraid of the truss rod. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to be afraid of it. It's not a magic wand. It will not blow up and take your guitar with it. It is just a chunk of metal that controls the bow of a neck. There is nothing special about it.

The odds of you overtightening your truss rod to the point of breakage are mathematically insignificant. The nut will probably strip before you get to that point. Don't screw around with the "quarter turn, then wait a day" crap. Your guitar doesn't care. Unless you're in a bad enviroment for guitars (in which case you'll have problems anyway) or you're using really picky vintage gear, the neck is not going to settle.

Don't think for a second I'm telling you to grab your guitar and crank away. Make what adjustments you need, and no more. DO NOT force the truss rod. Doing so could cause it to seize or, more likely, cause the nut to strip. Don't worry about any weird creaking sounds that emanate from the guitar. It's metal on wood, it's going to creak at some point. Worry about cracking sounds, especially if accompanied by shards of wood sooting at your head at an appreciable fraction of light speed.

Guitar necks are not as fragile as you have been led to believe. Most magazines use such strong warnings because they don't want to get their asses sued when some moron takes a Black & Decker Combination Screwdriver, Belt Sander, and Turbine Engine and cranks is truss rod with it. Unless you do something truly stupid, you won't break your guitar by using the truss rod for the job it was intended to do.

Ah, I can smell the torches firing up...

[shakyhands]

OK I feel much better now.. this is quite therapeutic. I'm cured !!!!

Yeah I suppose my dad was a bit cautious because the guitars we had were in fact old vintage gretsch and gibsons. Thanks for your posts. Only been a member here a short time but have picked up heaps of info from tutorials and posts like this.

Much obliged guys.

[Black Mariah]

Vintage gear I'd be more careful with, of course, but even then you just have to pay attention to the guitar. It's all a matter of knowing how your gear acts under certain conditions. No two guitars act the exact same, which is one reason I can't stand most repair books.

[rhoads56]

Don't screw around with the "quarter turn, then wait a day" crap. Your guitar doesn't care. Unless you're in a bad enviroment for guitars (in which case you'll have problems anyway) or you're using really picky vintage gear, the neck is not going to settle.

This is the exact reason virtually all guitars need to be set up again once they arrive at a store from the factory, despite being "setup" (and i use that term loosely) at the manufacturer.

Wood settles, its a fact. I can tell you this as i have extensive experience with structural properties in timbers and steel. Steel accepts a stress, and doesnt move again, wood accepts a stress and shifts over time (all other things being equal). The truss rod stays the same, but your neck will shrink ever so slightly. The truss rod length hasnt changed, but the stress it is exerting back onto the shrunken neck changes (wood has shrunk), forcing a new truss rod adjustment.

Seasons have a small effect on steel, and a large effect on timber. So, your neck will expand and contract over time in relation to the stresses its under. Steel (truss rod) will also move due to weather, but not the the same extent as wood.

[Southpa]

Be afraid...be very afraid....naaaahhh just kidding.

Some necks are not as responsive as others and they might take more time to settle. Depends on how supple the wood is and if its a laminated neck. I'm a big fan of the dual action truss rod. I installed one on my last guitar w/ a mahogany one piece neck and you can actually see results as you turn the truss rod. If you aren't sure whether or not all that turning is doing anything place a steel ruler along the fretboard and see if there is any difference. Most of those stories about truss rods breaking etc. are a result of inexperience. I'm a firm believer in knowing exactly what needs to be done and what the results will be before monkeying around with anything. So do lots of ing beforehand on the subject.

[shakyhands]

Thanks Perry ( youre always there mate...appreciate it) and southpa. Yeah dad was no fool and was a guitarist for many years..he was there at the birth of rock in australia playing with Lonnie Lee way back in '57. and was still playing until he died in 96. Also credited with building the first electric bass in Australia. Col Joye apparently made the first electric 6 stringer in oz. Dad may have been very cautious but was a very experienced woodworker also.

[rhoads56]

I just want to add that broken/stripped truss rods are more common than what has been stated previously in this thread. If it is hard to move, STOP, and take it to a LUTHIER for attention. Doing that will most likely save you a lot of money.

The last one i had in that had snapped, required a new fretboard, new frets, new inlay, new trussrod, re-finishing of the neck, etc etc etc. It was expensive.

[Black Mariah]

Don't screw around with the "quarter turn, then wait a day" crap. Your guitar doesn't care. Unless you're in a bad enviroment for guitars (in which case you'll have problems anyway) or you're using really picky vintage gear, the neck is not going to settle.

This is the exact reason virtually all guitars need to be set up again once they arrive at a store from the factory, despite being "setup" (and i use that term loosely) at the manufacturer.

The amount of time spent in the back of a UPS truck has more to do with it than the truss rod adjustment that may or may not have been made at the factory. This is an enviromental change, not a direct result of a truss rod adjustment. Going from, for example, a humid Fort Worth summer to a beyond dry Phoenix summer is going to unleash the fookin fury all over a guitar.

Wood settles, its a fact. I can tell you this as i have extensive experience with structural properties in timbers and steel. Steel accepts a stress, and doesnt move again, wood accepts a stress and shifts over time (all other things being equal). The truss rod stays the same, but your neck will shrink ever so slightly. The truss rod length hasnt changed, but the stress it is exerting back onto the shrunken neck changes (wood has shrunk), forcing a new truss rod adjustment.

The key phrase here, for me, is "over time". The question is over how much time? Newer guitars won't react the same as vintage pieces, and in general can take whatever truss rod adjustments you can throw at them without blinking. My favorite example of this is a Charvel Standard I set up. When it came to me it had so much relief you could tell from the side, from across the room. A quick crank of the truss rod, damn near a full turn, straightened the neck out perfectly. I even put a straightedge on the thing to make sure I wasn't crazy. I had 12th fret action under 1mm, with no buzzing anywhere on the board. Perfect! The order it was on got put on hold, so it had to sit in the warehouse. Three weeks later when it came back in, it was in the exact same condition. It had sat in a warehouse in the middle of summer for three weeks and hadn't changed a bit.

Obviously, this got me thinking that maybe all the crap I'd heard about truss rods wasn't exactly right, so I started paying closer attention to guitars that I set up that subsequently spent some time in the warehouse. It was very rare that any of these guitars needed further adjustments. When they did, they were usually minor adjustments. I realize this is anecdotal evidence at best, but it brought me to this conclusion...

There is no set way to care for a guitar. Period. Guitars made of wood, for the most part. No two pieces of wood will ever react the same to given conditions. They both might warp, but their movement will be different. Don't rely on books, or even other people, to tell you how to care for your guitar. Learn how to make adjustments and just PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR GEAR. It will tell you everything you need to know.

[shakyhands]

I'll take it steady. Perry with regards to wire we spoke about before for winding pups, will be in touch soon. Have to put it on back burner at present as I have to finish another project first before I start winding.

regards

Bill

[Black Mariah]

I just want to add that broken/stripped truss rods are more common than what has been stated previously in this thread. If it is hard to move, STOP, and take it to a LUTHIER for attention. Doing that will most likely save you a lot of money.

Agreed and then some. I was afraid I may have played down stripping the truss rod too much. I'll just say it again, te biggest *REAL* issue with a truss rod is the potential for stripping or breaking it. If you're putting significant effort into turning your truss rod, STOP and get it looked at. This is one area where it's better to be paranoid than out $200 for repairs.

[rhoads56]

I just want to add that broken/stripped truss rods are more common than what has been stated previously in this thread. If it is hard to move, STOP, and take it to a LUTHIER for attention. Doing that will most likely save you a lot of money.

Agreed and then some. I was afraid I may have played down stripping the truss rod too much. I'll just say it again, te biggest *REAL* issue with a truss rod is the potential for stripping or breaking it. If you're putting significant effort into turning your truss rod, STOP and get it looked at. This is one area where it's better to be paranoid than out $200 for repairs.

See, we can agree folks

[soapbarstrat]

I just want to add that broken/stripped truss rods are more common than what has been stated previously in this thread. If it is hard to move, STOP, and take it to a LUTHIER for attention. Doing that will most likely save you a lot of money.

The last one i had in that had snapped, required a new fretboard, new frets, new inlay, new trussrod, re-finishing of the neck, etc etc etc. It was expensive.

I second that.

While the rod is quite user-friendly, there are situations where it needs to get very tight to make the neck straight. There are cases where the fret-board pops off at least under the string nut area when the rod is tightened.

How I hate the ones where you keep trying to dial-in the right amount of slight relief around the 7th fret area, and it keeps adding relief a few fret spaces away, instead.

It's always good to first take the nut all the way off if possible. Check for any metal dust, stripped threads. Put a little lube on while you're at it. Often it's good to add a washer. Sometimes you really HAVE to do that, because the wood got too compressed. ( years ago I would have said this only goes for guitars at least 20 years old, but now I've seen it on 4 year old guitars).

One really good thing about adding a washer, is that the t-rod doesn't seem to need to be tightened as much, in many cases.

If I'm doing a re-fret on a neck like that, I'll make sure the fret-tangs are quite tight, to stiffen the neck a bit. When the fret-job is done, it'll usually end up so the t-rod can be a little looser than before.

Oh, and they often do settle if you leave it sit for a few days. I've seen that. I've also seen the ones's that don't settle, and that's nice, but you just don't know the same day.

Main points are to only adjust the t-rod for neck relief, know how to measure relief, know what relief you want.

[Black Mariah]

How I hate the ones where you keep trying to dial-in the right amount of slight relief around the 7th fret area, and it keeps adding relief a few fret spaces away, instead.

I HATE THAT I HATE THAT I BLOODY FREAKING HATE THAT! What is ever worse are the ones that only work on the first few frets, so you get this nice dip in the neck around 7-12. At least I didn't have to screw with them. Box 'em up, send 'em back to India.